Thread: Confused over move names.

I'm feeling a bit lost with some of the names for bellydance moves. It may be due to changing fashions, or my numbskullness. Years ago when I started learning I was having trouble enough learning the moves let alone cotton on to what the names were.

I'm sure I learnt a move called a 'kenya', which was a horizontal figure of eight with a foot release. Now did I imagine that? I have never heard a teacher mention that move in the last five or six years, so was I told wrong. If it does exist, what style does it belong to (Egyptian?).

I was also taughted Egyptian walks (definately by an Egyptian dance teacher) - but now they seem to be called hagellahs, and there seem to be lots of them. Does anyone remember Egyptian walks (not Tribal ones)? Was that a poor name to attach to a move, and now we know better?

Then I used to do vertical figures of eights. I'm sure they were mayas and ommis, but ommis seem now to be small tight pelvic circles, and there's now something else called a suriya, apparently named after a famous dancer - so what were they called before she got her name attached to them?

And jewels? I remember them as being a kind of wide jazz step (a diamond shape with a foot cross - there, now I've confused you), but now they are half hip circles with a twist on one hip.

Whether this is different teachers using different names or the wrong names, new names supplanting older ones, or I'm just a ninny, can some one please put me straight?!

Bad news is some moves have different names - and the same named move can mean totally different things.

For instance, I know several moves called a "basic" which are very different; I have come across may "jewels" which have some similarities (a curve and a sharp movement) - but which are actually different; when I learnt an omi it was a vertical circle in the frontal plane but these days I go with the flow and use it for a "tilting circle" aka an "African circle".

As for haggalla vs Egyptian 3/4, I like to keep the former for the folkloric style with a twist and a butt poke. But many teachers use it for any variation of down/up/down/pause.

This is actually a pretty easy one; they are probably all right and wrong. There are no standardized dance movements names throughout the entire belly dance community and sub-styles. Different teachers will use names they learned from their teachers, made up, found on the internet or dvd, etc., but there is no one set of movement names.

The most common movement names in the US tend to be based on old-school Salimpour terminology, but there are also quite a few people with a more east coast vocabulary set. I default to using geometry, direction, and intention to describe movements in my own classes, but I try to also mention all of the other names I have heard for a specific movement.

Originally Posted by Duvet

I'm feeling a bit lost with some of the names for bellydance moves. It may be due to changing fashions, or my numbskullness. Years ago when I started learning I was having trouble enough learning the moves let alone cotton on to what the names were.

As there is no standard nomenclature in oriental dance, some similar moves have different names, and some similar names have different moves...

Some names just come along when teachers need to name them, and then their students bring on the first teacher's name on that particular move (which may change in style/execution from teacher to teacher as well).

Originally Posted by Duvet

I'm sure I learnt a move called a 'kenya', which was a horizontal figure of eight with a foot release. Now did I imagine that? I have never heard a teacher mention that move in the last five or six years, so was I told wrong. If it does exist, what style does it belong to (Egyptian?).

That sounds like a keany to me, and yes, it is used in Egyptian style.

If you sift through this thread (Your favorite moves in Belly dance) you may find some examples of the moves you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Duvet

I was also taughted Egyptian walks (definately by an Egyptian dance teacher) - but now they seem to be called hagellahs, and there seem to be lots of them. Does anyone remember Egyptian walks (not Tribal ones)? Was that a poor name to attach to a move, and now we know better?

Search the forum for [hagala, hagalla, haggala, haggalla, hagallah etc, various spelling on this step] and 3/4 shimmies (IMHO haggallas belong to the 3/4 shimmy group as there are so many variation on this). "Egyptian walk" may very well be a variation of the 3/4 shimmy.

Originally Posted by Duvet

Then I used to do vertical figures of eights. I'm sure they were mayas and ommis, but ommis seem now to be small tight pelvic circles, and there's now something else called a suriya, apparently named after a famous dancer - so what were they called before she got her name attached to them?

Some call vertical figures of eights mayas (but I can't remember if it was upwards or downwards).
Omis are pelvic circles with tilting of the pelvis (but there are also variations on these, I've heard names on similar/related moves called "african circle", "corkscrew" etc).
A "suriya" I've never heard of.

They may not have had a name (not all moves and combination have names).

Originally Posted by Duvet

And jewels? I remember them as being a kind of wide jazz step (a diamond shape with a foot cross - there, now I've confused you), but now they are half hip circles with a twist on one hip.

This sounds like a jazz box step.

Originally Posted by Duvet

Whether this is different teachers using different names or the wrong names, new names supplanting older ones, or I'm just a ninny, can some one please put me straight?!

As I said above, there are no standard nomenclature. If the teacher need a name for a move, and she/he knows no other name, she/he may give it a name to help students remember this particular move or combination.

I've been to way too many workshops where the different moves have been used for the same name and vice versa to make any sense of it. I just follow the teacher and never assume anything until they start moving. In fact, this has flowed over into my own classroom where unless I have had NO conflicting names for a move/moves for a name in the last 5 years of workshop taking, it gets a descriptive instead of a 'name'. That way at least we're all on the same page when I start teaching.

What I do may not be right, but it does save time and confusion in the classroom and by using very out-there names for moves I'm not subtly over-writing their existing education nor are they likely to do the wrong move because I'm asking for one they know by a different name!

I second you Duvet, names are confusing, but good the haggalla has been nailed, as I love that movement, though struggled with it when I first learned it, but the mya I always remember by the letter M of mya, as that is the movement and fish hips being the reverse of that movement ? But yeah, many names and some names varied for the same movement, or was it I wasn't seeing the difference. I also wish there was a standard terminology, it would be so helpful, but could established dancers agree on the terminology applied to the movement ?

Vertical eights are obvious as is horizontal eights, hip circles also, bicycle hips, can't remember the movement to that one.

We still do egyptian walks - there is only one varietythough. However, another teacher in the area is native egyptian and she hates this term because Egyptians don't actually walks like that

Hey Duvet - my spidey senses are picking up some Josephine Wise school terminology in there. I don't know how widespread it is among non-JWAAD teachers, but it is familiar to me.

Originally Posted by Duvet

I'm sure I learnt a move called a 'kenya', which was a horizontal figure of eight with a foot release.

I didn't learn it as a horizontal 8 though I can see how it looks like one. More alternating undulations to L and R diagonals with foot releases on the change.

I was also taughted Egyptian walks (definately by an Egyptian dance teacher) - but now they seem to be called hagellahs, and there seem to be lots of them.

I learnt an Egyptian walk that is a 3/4 shimmy with accents on the down. I can see the point of giving the basic move a different name so as not to make students think that is THE hagallah, because yes there are lots of variations.

Then I used to do vertical figures of eights. I'm sure they were mayas and ommis, but ommis seem now to be small tight pelvic circles, and there's now something else called a suriya, apparently named after a famous dancer - so what were they called before she got her name attached to them?

To me, vertical 8's are the up-and-in, mayas out-and-down. I can only recall a couple of workshops where I've had to do mental terminology adjustments on those, but then I don't do tribal/TF where there might br more differences. IIRC some people use reverse maya and maya, and some tribal has taqsim and reverse taqsim.

I've never heard of ommi/ umi being used for any 8's, or heard of suriyas - what's that one?

And jewels? I remember them as being a kind of wide jazz step (a diamond shape with a foot cross - there, now I've confused you), but now they are half hip circles with a twist on one hip.

IMO the half circle with twist/accent is the more widely understood one in BD terms.

I don't think it matters much as long as you know there's no standard terminology.

Originally Posted by jenc

However, another teacher in the area is native egyptian and she hates this term because Egyptians don't actually walks like that

LOL - no, really? There I was thinking downtown Cairo was a mass of 3/4 shimminess...

Don't worry about the names. Worry about how the moves look and the technique you need to use to create them. If you get too hung up on the names, you're only going to set yourself back, because they are not universal.

It threw me when I began Tribal and was told that myas (we seperate them into inside and outside) don't exist and you have to call them taxeems instead, and the basic shimmy was actually a 3/4 shimmy, and camels were Arabics...

But learning Egyptian style is proving equally frustrating. We were complaining in class last night about how frustrating it is that not only are there no standard names for moves, but some moves don't have names at all.

We learnt a super cute shimmy type affair where you do a R glute hip lift on a flat foot, then rise up on the ball of the L foot and lift that hip, then repeat on each hip but remaining on tiptoe. This has now been christened the 'Flat Balls step', since that's what teacher was shouting while we were drilling it!