experimental or tribal fusion?

[Caroline_afifi]

This clip has been uploaded onto another forum and also on facebook and via emails..

Seeing as OD is still is a 'discussion' forum, how do people define this dance?

It is tagged as 'belly dance', which in my opinion it clearly isnt.. because despite everything I do think Belly dance is clearly definable.

But baring in mind this performance was displayed at a Tribal Fusion faire, what about Tribal and 'Fusion' enthusiasts feel about this? how does this fit into your definition of what you do? do you accept 'anything goes' or do you also like definition and clarity?


YouTube - tribal fusion faire 2009

 

[lizaj]

No I don't think anything goes in belly dance, tribal,tribal fusion. I think an audience deserves to be entertained. This smacks to me of a lady who wants to express herself and show what she can do and I think it's brilliant that the kind of dances I have mentioned give opportunities to people like her and me to be creative and belly dance can be so accessable and fusion can be so much fun in the freedom it gives.
What you do in the dance studio with or without your mates, what you do in your front lounge,bedroom and back yard is up to you...you can do what you like.
The minute you step onto a stage you have a responsibilty to entertain or maybe in some cases to provoke thought and to inform. Self indulgance is unforgiveable the minute you have an audience.
Had said exmple prepared a 3 minute routine showng what skills of dance and suppleness she had developed, how much more pleasureable would that have been all around?
Who is to blame? Well teachers but then we don't have mind-control or the right to hold back only advise, organisers who plan shows and ensure that a performance is suitable and well prepared and audiences for not giving the correct feedback.
AS to wether or not to discuss acts like that..well a newbie or member of the GP at that event or seeing it on Youtube and thinking that was a typical example of tribal fusion or of belly dance (the subject says she teaches her own style of belly dance) has been misled and I think it's right to correct that illusion.
There is no need to recourse to personal or abusive comment just to put the record straight and say this is not typical , anything like it of fusion dancing or belly dance. It's nothing like the modest yet pleasureable efforts many women make at local halfas.

 

[dreamthief666]

No I don't think anything goes in belly dance, tribal,tribal fusion. I think an audience deserves to be entertained. This smacks to me of a lady who wants to express herself and show what she can do and I think it's brilliant that the kind of dances I have mentioned give opportunities to people like her and me to be creative and belly dance can be so accessable and fusion can be so much fun in the freedom it gives.
What you do in the dance studio with or without your mates, what you do in your front lounge,bedroom and back yard is up to you...you can do what you like.
The minute you step onto a stage you have a responsibilty to entertain or maybe in some cases to provoke thought and to inform. Self indulgance is unforgiveable the minute you have an audience.
Had said exmple prepared a 3 minute routine showng what skills of dance and suppleness she had developed, how much more pleasureable would that have been all around?
Who is to blame? Well teachers but then we don't have mind-control or the right to hold back only advise, organisers who plan shows and ensure that a performance is suitable and well prepared and audiences for not giving the correct feedback.
AS to wether or not to discuss acts like that..well a newbie or member of the GP at that event or seeing it on Youtube and thinking that was a typical example of tribal fusion or of belly dance (the subject says she teaches her own style of belly dance) has been misled and I think it's right to correct that illusion.
There is no need to recourse to personal or abusive comment just to put the record straight and say this is not typical , anything like it of fusion dancing or belly dance. It's nothing like the modest yet pleasureable efforts many women make at local halfas.

i wish there was a way to patent TRIBAL and FUSION so to stop the mirad of total c**p being pushed, i love to see good art and dance but why can't people push themselves to do well rather than a mishmash of ill concieved junk

 

[lizaj]

I do think that Fusion is the place for experimentation and I'm not sure that restraints are approriate. Egyptian,Turkish belly dance has their recognizeable structures and cultural boundaries. ATS/ITS also has boundaries that once you leave them behind , the dance becomes something else. The one thing we can say is that dancers have freedom to explore fusions and blends outside that. It would be a shame to try to limit influences and innovation. However the fusion that will work are based in solid knowledge and understanding and practise. A dancer who has learnt another dance genre as well as belly dance or tribal dance will be able to do a worthwhile routine. Someone who has cobbled togther without the effort will not.

 

[dreamthief666]

I do think that Fusion is the place for experimentation and I'm not sure that restraints are approriate. Egyptian,Turkish belly dance has their recognizeable structures and cultural boundaries. ATS/ITS also has boundaries that once you leave them behind , the dance becomes something else. The one thing we can say is that dancers have freedom to explore fusions and blends outside that. It would be a shame to try to limit influences and innovation. However the fusion that will work are based in solid knowledge and understanding and practise. A dancer who has learnt another dance genre as well as belly dance or tribal dance will be able to do a worthwhile routine. Someone who has cobbled togther without the effort will not.

thats what i meant to say thanks for putting it better :lol:

 

[Kira_Majeric]

This clip has been uploaded onto another forum and also on facebook and via emails..

Seeing as OD is still is a 'discussion' forum, how do people define this dance?

It is tagged as 'belly dance', which in my opinion it clearly isnt.. because despite everything I do think Belly dance is clearly definable.

But baring in mind this performance was displayed at a Tribal Fusion faire, what about Tribal and 'Fusion' enthusiasts feel about this? how does this fit into your definition of what you do? do you accept 'anything goes' or do you also like definition and clarity?


YouTube - tribal fusion faire 2009

In my experience, this looks more like interpretive dance to me, a warm up, or even a meditation thing. just using Belly Dance Props......

 

[jenc]

Some people are more interested in making a new genre than they are in the content

 

[Shanazel]

To quote LizaJ:

It's nothing like the modest yet pleasureable efforts many women make at local halfas.

I watched the first three minutes of the program, then fast forwarded through the rest. It has been so many years since I took a modern dance class myself that more up to date students might protest if I said this resembles modern dance more than any derivative of middle eastern dance, tribal and fusion included.

Her costume was pure 1970s modern dance. Having excess boobage issues myself, I sympathize with costuming problems, but this costume had so much décolletage that I was distracted by the determined escape of her breasts throughout the performance. The fans blowing the veils also distracted me and impeded the dancer at times. The significance of the white veil fighting with the blue veils totally eluded me.

I realize this is a harsh assessment but I am so tired of aything involving a veil or a shimmy being classsified as belly dance. I agree absolutely with LizaJ when she says

A dancer who has learnt another dance genre as well as belly dance or tribal dance will be able to do a worthwhile routine. Someone who has cobbled togther without the effort will not.

 

[Yshka]

I'm sorry but the only thing I can say about that video s:
"What was that?"

To me it has nothing to do with Tribal, nothing to do with Bellydance, and I don't see the link with Tribal Fusion either. Not just anything goes. Even fusion I think should be defined clearly. If you just lump stuff together and call it Tribal Fusion that doesn't make it actual Tribal Fusion, but clearly defining the stuff you are doing, and what exactly it is you are dancing even if provocative and experimental, will make it a lot less flame-worthy IMO. Fusion is to be experimental and is wonderful because it is, but naming anything fusion doesn't do it for me, and most likely will confuse an audience even more.

What this lady was doing.... I don't know. It somehow eminds me of a Feldenkrais class being taught at the local rec center :think:

 

[Ariadne]

It has been so many years since I took a modern dance class myself that more up to date students might protest if I said this resembles modern dance more than any derivative of middle eastern dance, tribal and fusion included.

Yes, I thought that as well. I love Tribal Fusion well performed, this wasn't. My honest thoughts in the order they occurred:

• Crotch and bosoms... :shok:
• Has she considered changing to Modern Dance? She would fit right in...
• I would die if that was my teacher.
• Is there any hope of someone rescuing that poor veil!

 

[Kira_Majeric]

I think I found her again.

YouTube - VTS 01 1

 

[Shanazel]

Okay, she can do locks, yoga poses, the splits and is capable of keeping up shimmy variations till the cows come home. But her transitions need a lot of smoothing, her veil work resembles someone shaking out laundry, and if a dancer cannot get up and down off the floor gracefully, she is better off remaining on her feet.

I get the impression that this is a woman who considers herself a "natural" and doesn't think she needs dance training in order to perform. Sad thing is, she could probably learn to dance very nicely if she ever bothered to study.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Yes, I thought that as well. I love Tribal Fusion well performed, this wasn't. My honest thoughts in the order they occurred:

• Crotch and bosoms... :shok:
• Has she considered changing to Modern Dance? She would fit right in...
• I would die if that was my teacher.

I couldn't get past the crotch, THAT was enough for me. :doh: :wall: I didn't even know there was a veil part.

When a routine starts out with someone's...errrrr..."hoo-ha"...facing me, that's the time to get up and leave. :naghty:

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I just don't go for that sort of thing.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Well I suppose what I am trying to assertian is... what makes this woman controversial in the Tribal/Fusion scene?

How do people in this dance genre define their boudaries?

I know clearly why I would not consider this 'belly dance'...how does that apply to Tribal? is it therefore totally acceptable fusion and so, do they all have their rightful place under one big umberella.

Is there any connection whatsoever between this woman and Fifi Abdou? :think:

 

[jenc]

I was intrigued by the new bellydance genre, so I looked it up. It is based on the Dune novels by Frank Herbert where the Bene Gesserit are some kind of sisterhood who train their bodies to obtain powers and abilitities that seem magical to outsiders.

Thus spoke St. Alia-of-the-Knife: "The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness." ”


Now. that explains the martial arts aspect. It's also evidently pretensious clap trap. I don't think that I think that if you claim to have invented a new form of bellydance - you should not be surprised if you get criticised. It seems to me that it's not just a case of some people pushing the envelope tobreaking point without seeing the problem. some people just refuse to see that there is an envelope at all.

Matters of dress however, are usually better left to face to face and PM

From the other thread but better here!!!

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Thanks Jenc for the info. It is useful to have a context for what is going on but when we perform we have to accept we will be percieved in terms of how we present and that alone.

We must understand that when we perform something, we cannot just demand love in return... with performance comes responsibility, we also have to accept that people will analyse us, what we do and the way in which we do it. It is the nature of the art.

 

[dreamthief666]

Well I suppose what I am trying to assertian is... what makes this woman controversial in the Tribal/Fusion scene?

How do people in this dance genre define their boudaries?

I know clearly why I would not consider this 'belly dance'...how does that apply to Tribal? is it therefore totally acceptable fusion and so, do they all have their rightful place under one big umberella.

Is there any connection whatsoever between this woman and Fifi Abdou? :think:

i sent this to a friend of mine who is a well respected fusion dancer, she wasn't anymore posative about than us, so not sure where it fits in, can't be tribal fusion as there wasn't any tribal in it

 

[PracticalDancer]

I was intrigued by the new bellydance genre, so I looked it up. It is based on the Dune novels by Frank Herbert where the Bene Gesserit are some kind of sisterhood who train their bodies to obtain powers and abilitities that seem magical to outsiders.

Thus spoke St. Alia-of-the-Knife: "The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness." ”


Now. that explains the martial arts aspect. It's also evidently pretensious clap trap. I don't think that I think that if you claim to have invented a new form of bellydance - you should not be surprised if you get criticised. It seems to me that it's not just a case of some people pushing the envelope tobreaking point without seeing the problem. some people just refuse to see that there is an envelope at all.

Matters of dress however, are usually better left to face to face and PM

From the other thread but better here!!!

Having become a fan of Frank Herbert half a lifetime before I discovered this dance, I think the association with the Bene Gesserit offends me far more than the association with the dance.

To quote a scene between Paul Atreides and Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam:

Paul: "They tried and failed?"

Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam: "They tried and DIED."

 

[Kira_Majeric]

I was intrigued by the new bellydance genre, so I looked it up. It is based on the Dune novels by Frank Herbert where the Bene Gesserit are some kind of sisterhood who train their bodies to obtain powers and abilitities that seem magical to outsiders.

Thus spoke St. Alia-of-the-Knife: "The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness." ”

I think you are being too thoughtful to this dancer. I have read those book (love those books), and this dancer is nothing like the Bene Gesserit. They are powerful women who are graceful, can fight, and are masters in politics. Which leave us with the original dilemma of how to categorize her dance..... ^_^

 

[PracticalDancer]

I think you are being too thoughtful to this dancer. I have read those book (love those books), and this dancer is nothing like the Bene Gesserit. They are powerful women who are graceful, can fight, and are masters in politics. Which leave us with the original dilemma of how to categorize her dance..... ^_^

And, they are women who would go through extensive training and discipline. They were bound to follow orders or die.

It's interesting to read the dancer's comments in response to critique, eh?