Misogynist trolls?

J

Jans

New member
Okay so..we all know that there are people out there who don't think highly of our dance. Some just don't know any better and some are just willfully ignorant.
But what those misogynist trolls who just dislike it because the idea of women dancing in 'short' clothes is offensive to them and label them immoral etc? Especially online??
 
J

Jans

New member
Also this -https://googleweblight.com/?lite_url=https://www.quora.com/In-this-day-and-age-are-bellydancers-considered-women-of-ill-repute-in-the-Islamic-world&ei=lYblVFrm&lc=en-IN&s=1&m=650&ts=1450514449&sig=ALL1Aj4dSjTkNTvD64zPqI29udE1uzfTpQ

So DONE.
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
He answered the question with his own opinion and he's entitled to that opinion even if it is insulting, short-sighted, narrow-minded, bigoted, and uninformed.

As for trolls of any sort, on OD we just ban them and have done with it. No need to consider them further.
 
J

Jans

New member
His words are still ringing in my head. It really bothered me. I know I'm probably just being over sensitive, but..idk. I guess you have to pay this price for being a woman with independent choices.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
I'm going to go against the grain here and say I don't think he's being misogynist, he's just telling the truth about belly dancing in the Middle East. They DO think of belly dancers as prostitutes, and it's just silly for us to pretend otherwise. Why do you think so many belly dancers in Egypt are foreign? - because Egyptians think it's a shameful profession for their daughters. Why do belly dancers in Egypt keep their profession secret? - because they'll get thrown out of their rented flat if the landlord finds out what she does. Turkey is just as bad if not worse.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/de...titudes-to-belly-dancing-in-turkey-2010-11-10

We should be grateful that belly dance has been able to forge an identity in the Western World which is completely divorced from that image, but surely it's naive to pretend it doesn't exist.
 
Amulya

Amulya

Moderator
True, that problem does exist very much. I was just wondering if he himself supports these beliefs? Hope not
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
Amulya said:
True, that problem does exist very much. I was just wondering if he himself supports these beliefs? Hope not
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No, I don't think we can say whether he supports the belief or not - he doesn't say. He simply reports what the prevailing attitudes are.
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
He states that he doesn't necessarily agree with the stereotype but it doesn't necessarily follow that he disagrees with it and he writes nothing to that end. He writes things like, "...there is really no point of doing bellydancing for a living unless one practices the oldest profession in the world. Because that's what it usually leads to, and that is precisely why I have never seen a good bellydancer!"

The hell with that attitude.
 
Kashmir

Kashmir

New member
Jans said:
Also this -https://googleweblight.com/?lite_url=https://www.quora.com/In-this-day-and-age-are-bellydancers-considered-women-of-ill-repute-in-the-Islamic-world&ei=lYblVFrm&lc=en-IN&s=1&m=650&ts=1450514449&sig=ALL1Aj4dSjTkNTvD64zPqI29udE1uzfTpQ
Click to expand...

This is quite different. This is not a troll but someone explaining how belly dance is seen in his country: "bellydancers are pretty much considered as prostitutes by society in Iraq" - this also VERY definitely applies in Egypt (never wear anything belly dancerish in public in Egypt - or gush that you're a belly dancer unless you want a very negative - and possibly dangerous - reaction) but he also says "I don't necessarily believe in that stereotype".
 
J

Jans

New member
Kashmir said:
This is quite different. This is not a troll but someone explaining how belly dance is seen in his country: "bellydancers are pretty much considered as prostitutes by society in Iraq" - this also VERY definitely applies in Egypt (never wear anything belly dancerish in public in Egypt - or gush that you're a belly dancer unless you want a very negative - and possibly dangerous - reaction) but he also says "I don't necessarily believe in that stereotype".
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Wow this is surprising. My teachers go to Egypt often and I've never heard about anything like this...infact one of the students who went with them said 'It was one of the best things to ever happen to her". This is disappointing and sad.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
Jans said:
Wow this is surprising. My teachers go to Egypt often and I've never heard about anything like this...infact one of the students who went with them said 'It was one of the best things to ever happen to her". This is disappointing and sad.
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I'm sure your teachers are fully aware of it. Some teachers feel the need to downplay or even ignore it: they feel they have enough trouble distancing belly dance from stripping in the West, so admitting there are bigger problems in the Middle East would only make it worse.

Students on a tour in Egypt would have been in a nice protective bubble and wouldn't be aware of the general public's reaction. I know I didn't realise when I was there!
 
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J

Jans

New member
Bellydance Oz said:
I'm sure your teachers are fully aware of it. Some teachers feel the need to downplay or even ignore it: they feel they have enough trouble distancing belly dance from stripping in the West, so admitting there are bigger problems in the Middle East would only make it worse.

Students on a tour in Egypt would have been in a nice protective bubble and wouldn't be aware of the general public's reaction. I know I didn't realise when I was there!
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Yes I agree. I can see this discouraging potential students. Makes sense. I understand that my friend probably only spoke to other dancers and musicians there and hence came back completely unaware of these views. Good for her, I guess.
It came as a shock to me because I ignorantly thought that the bad rep Belly dance gets is only because of wrong media representation by the west. I also always told my friends and family that its a social dance that has very different connotations in the countries it originated from. Oh well. This is discouraging but...I'll obviously hang on. Thank you for replying:)
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
Jans said:
Yes I agree. I can see this discouraging potential students. Makes sense. I understand that my friend probably only spoke to other dancers and musicians there and hence came back completely unaware of these views. Good for her, I guess.
It came as a shock to me because I ignorantly thought that the bad rep Belly dance gets is only because of wrong media representation by the west. I also always told my friends and family that its a social dance that has very different connotations in the countries it originated from. Oh well. This is discouraging but...I'll obviously hang on. Thank you for replying:)
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Belly dance has been associated with prostitution in the Middle East for a long time. However, belly dance IN THE WEST has evolved into something different, and one that we can be proud of.

It's like ballet in the 19th century - in its country of origin, France, the dancers were all hookers, but that doesn't mean ballet dancers in other countries felt ashamed of their art form. They just got on with making their own version the best it could be - and look where it is now!

Belly dancing in the West has become an art form that empowers women (and some gay men) to express themselves regardless of shape, size or age. That's a great thing.

http://kissesfromkairo.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/the-belly-dancers-body.html
 
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Darshiva

Darshiva

Moderator
Jans said:
Yes I agree. I can see this discouraging potential students. Makes sense. I understand that my friend probably only spoke to other dancers and musicians there and hence came back completely unaware of these views. Good for her, I guess.
It came as a shock to me because I ignorantly thought that the bad rep Belly dance gets is only because of wrong media representation by the west. I also always told my friends and family that its a social dance that has very different connotations in the countries it originated from. Oh well. This is discouraging but...I'll obviously hang on. Thank you for replying:)
Click to expand...

It IS a social dance. It's only when women get silly ideas about performing it in PUBLIC that it becomes a problem. And then only until she becomes so good at it that she becomes a household name. The arts get a bad rap everywhere. Combine that with misogyny and you have some powerful negativity involved.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
Kashmir said:
Most men in Egypt belly dance - does that make them gay?
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I was specifically talking about belly dance in the West, as having built itself a totally different reputation than in the Middle East.

I am one of the first to get annoyed when people accuse all male dancers of being gay! Having danced ballet, jazz, flamenco and ballroom I know plenty of straight male dancers (in fact my husband is one of them). But the only male belly dancers I've met have been gay, and I felt that bd gave them permission to be soft and feminine, (where other dance genres expect them to depict a strong masculine character).
 
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