Relying on Mirrors

OK, so I've been dancing with a troupe for about 2 years, which involves learning a lot of complex choreography. We practice in a mirrored studio and learn the choreo facing the mirror - our teacher / troupe director stands in front of us facing the mirror - and we do all our practice facing the mirror until we are ready to perform the choreo, then we'll do some practice facing away from the mirror.

My problem is that I've come to rely on the mirrors to know what I'm doing and when they're not there, I panic and can't feel the movement I'm supposed to be doing. I never used to be like this - with my first teacher, we didn't even have mirrors (no, I'm not THAT old, the community hall just didn't have any) Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do?

Hi Hyacinth,

This is totally the same for me.

My first classes were in front of the mirror. We were encouraged to look in the mirror to help us see if we were doing them moves correctly. At home I practised in front of a mirror.

Then came second Term and I was moved up to a different class with no mirrors (not on purpose but because it's at a different venue). I felt completely lost. During that first class without mirrors I wasn't sure what my body was doing. I felt that I wasn't doing as well because somehow it was easier to see myself doing the moves correctly than to feel that. When I got home I did a test - did a move looking in the mirror and right away while I still remembered exactly what I did, I did the same move not looking and in that way I got a sense of what the move feels like as well as how it looks reflected in a mirror. Basically, the moves looked bigger in the mirror than they felt.

I was surprised at how much I had come to rely on the mirrors without even being aware of it. Luckily, as a very new belly dancer it's not too late for me to get out of the habit but it means I have been purposely not using the mirrors at home even when I am tempted to. I still think using mirrors is helpful as is videoing oneself but until I feel like I know what I'm doing without looking I'm going to be good and go mirror less.

On another note, when I began dancing I was feeling very under confident within myself and about how I looked. I could hardly look at myself in the mirror and hated what I saw when I did. However, after 15 weeks of dancing and looking at my reflection so much I have a better body image than before and I don't hate looking at myself in a mirror.

Chani

Hi,

If I had the choice I would never have mirrors where I teach. Unfortunately it happens that there is an entire wall of mirrors! The reason is the same that you have stated...also I notice that students tend to obsess about the way they look and are more likely to watch themselves than me when I am instructing. I do see the benefit of mirrors sometimes, but I personally would prefer not to have any.

Brea said:

Hi,

If I had the choice I would never have mirrors where I teach. Unfortunately it happens that there is an entire wall of mirrors! The reason is the same that you have stated...also I notice that students tend to obsess about the way they look and are more likely to watch themselves than me when I am instructing. I do see the benefit of mirrors sometimes, but I personally would prefer not to have any.

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But how could students ever learn correct technique without seeing what they look like executing movements? They are essential. We are an inherently visual species, plus most beginners lack the body awareness to know what their bodies are doing without both visual confirmation and individual correction from the teacher. I hate the fact that most workshops are in big gyms without mirrors, and I will never host such an event myself.

RE: For group choreography practice, I think mirrors are needed also, but the group has to rehearse without them at a certain stage.

Sedonia

I believe that mirrors are needed special in the learning time.
A student, dancer can also check him/her self to see what is ok, what is not.
In my studio we did a special thing (dont know how to explain it), and we have thick curtains that can cover the mirror.
At the basic class, first we work with the mirror and after without it, in a circle, when I just put on music, to dance the teqnicks we learned in an improvisional way.
At the next class, we work the combinations, etc, with open mirror and after we work them without.
At the advanced class, we do choreo with mirror and after almost all the practising without.
I cant say that its the level, cause i got various reactions from various classes lol.
Some when they see me walking near the curtain scream NOOOOOOOO while others same time YESSSSSSS lol
I believed that it was needed to have such a mechanism, but because of the structure of the walls, costed so much 600 euro without the curtain grrrr lol

Maria Aya

You are all so wonderful. do I have to move to be near one of you who teaches dancing not routines. AAAARGH! All I have is my mirror to react with when I want to experiment with music. Thhere is no other feedback possible localy at this time, despite the fact that there are several local teachers. At least it reminds me to watch my so far uncorrectd posture.

jenc said:

You are all so wonderful. do I have to move to be near one of you who teaches dancing not routines. AAAARGH! All I have is my mirror to react with when I want to experiment with music. Thhere is no other feedback possible localy at this time, despite the fact that there are several local teachers. At least it reminds me to watch my so far uncorrectd posture.

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I'm so sorry! IMO if the teacher isn't offering individual feedback (both positive and negative) she's not teaching, just taking your money.

Sedonia

Mirrors

sedoniaraqs said:

But how could students ever learn correct technique without seeing what they look like executing movements? They are essential. We are an inherently visual species, plus most beginners lack the body awareness to know what their bodies are doing without both visual confirmation and individual correction from the teacher. I hate the fact that most workshops are in big gyms without mirrors, and I will never host such an event myself.

RE: For group choreography practice, I think mirrors are needed also, but the group has to rehearse without them at a certain stage.

Sedonia

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Dear Gang,
I agree with Sedonia all the way on this. Especially early on, it is really necessary for students to have mirrors. When I go out of town to teach workshops, I always request that the hosts do everything they can to assure we will be working in a venue with mirrors. (Sedonia has sponsored me twice and both time the workshop venue was perfect in every way!! So was everything else. AND, she makes this soup....)) It is both for the benefit of the students and for me, so that I can see the students all at once in a mirror, in some way that I can not when facing them. They need the visual to compliment the feeling the movement gives the body, and to see how they are moving the same or differently from the instructor.

Re the choreography issue- My company rehearses with the mirrors until we have the choreography down. Then we face a different direction and work without them until costume time. Then we face the mirrors again for a bit so they can have the satisfaction of seeing how all elements of the dance work together, music,movement, attitude and costuming to enhance the dance.
Regards,
A'isha

Hyacinth said:

My problem is that I've come to rely on the mirrors to know what I'm doing and when they're not there, I panic and can't feel the movement I'm supposed to be doing. I never used to be like this - with my first teacher, we didn't even have mirrors (no, I'm not THAT old, the community hall just didn't have any) Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do?

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Hey Hyacinth,

Is the problem
1. that you need the mirror to see what you're doing, no matter what direction you face

or

2. that you learned the choreography while your body was oriented a certain way (facing a certain direction) and when you face a different wall, it messes you up?

As I said, I see the value of mirrors for those above reasons, in a perfect world. Any advice on how to cut down on the distractedness? Some people, while watching themselves and doing fine, later on will be extremely confused because it seems they have learned with their eyes instead of their body...if that makes sense.

I don't know a world without mirrors, since I grew up in a ballet studio. So I may not be the right person to answer you, Brea.

But I do know that in ballet, the idea is to SEE the angle, position of the body, etc -- you SEE the place where you're supposed to be, or what you're supposed to be doing, and I guess the theory is that with repeated practice, you'll eventually BE where you kept seeing yourself. Your arm will always be THERE, even if you don't have the mirror to check, because your body is in the habit of putting it THERE. Does that make sense? So in some ways, you ARE learning with your eyes, but your body gets used to feeling a certain way when you do certain things.

Like 5th position of the arms -- you start practicing this as practically a baby, always checking the mirror to make sure they're where they're supposed to be. After a while, it's so ingrained in you that you don't NEED to check in the mirror -- your body knows where to put your arms.

BUT -- does this ballet style education translate to a belly dance class? That's the big question, I guess.

Something my mentor did (and I do now) when teaching beginners the correct posture, is to start with the mirror. Let them see their correct posture from a couple of different angles. Then I have the relax and "shake it out" and stand in their normal posture. Then I tell them to assume the posture. We check it in the mirror, I tell them to remember what this feels like, and then we shake it out again. THEN I have them face away from the mirror and assume the posture. After a few months of doing this as part of the warmup, I've noticed they don't need quite so much correction anymore.

But key to this is getting the student to REMEMBER what the correct posture feels like on their body. Kind of like how in jazz or modern class you at first have to check the mirror to see what a real "flat back" fold looks like, and then eventually your body remembers what it feels like to have a flat back and you go there automatically.

Maybe you can start in front of the mirrors, and tell them "remember how this feels" and then pull them away from the mirrors periodically? I would think that (along with repetition) this would be the best way to get the movement REALLY into muscle memory and out of the "eyes" so much -- (????) Maybe?

I agree with Brea. You can teach without mirrors.

Sedoniaraqs said:

But how could students ever learn correct technique without seeing what they look like executing movements?

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With the help of a teacher who corrects posture individually and corrects movements indivicually. I have one teacher who teaches with mirror and one who teaches without. I notice that with mirror, I'm still looking more to the teacher than to myself and the reverse image of the teacher in the mirror can confuse me. I love dancing without the mirror. It's more important the teacher can judge if your movements are right than you yourself in the mirror. You might still do it wrong that way when you're a beginner. For example, the movements my teacher makes look different on her than on me because she has bigger hips. So if I judge myself in the mirror I might still think I'm doing it wrong because it looks different.
And I hate to see how lost some people are without the mirror because they are just too used on it.

I have always been into individual correction, as Moon said. However, I do see that it could be done as Aziyade is saying too. I just like the dance without mirrors, I suppose. I personally feel that it's more of a distraction. However, I agree that if they can be turned away from them perhaps that is the best way to do it.

I guess.... I have more trouble getting into the music when there's a mirror.

I absolutly HATE it without mirror! I started in a studio without mirror and it was BAD.

I believe all the people are different, and there are people that are LESS body aware (as Sedonia said) and unfortunatly I am one of them!! ( As I have noticed most people that are not involved in lots of physical activity tend to have issues with "FEELING" the moves vs "Seeing" them.

When I would come home after class and run to the mirror to try the moves I have learnt, it was bad, because they FELT right but looked wrong and I had to correct myself and 're-learn' the moves the correct way. In a group of 20 people it is absolutely impossible for an instructor to correct each and every clumsy beginner. To point out the main points yes....

Besides for me it is really hard to "READ" the body of the teacher- I always get confused with left and right turns, or say dont keep the arms elongated enough, and although it might feel like I am doing what the instructor does in reality it looks wrong! It would be much easier if I could compare myself in the mirror with the instructor!

Oh and I am not even going to mention that tense and super-concentrating face-mask I learn together with the choreo, only on coming home to notice it in the mirror and remember to smile instead.

I know some people get obsessed with watching themselves in the mirror, but I belive dance is very much about presenting your body in a nice way- here I mean assuming correct posture, elongating the arms and legs creating elegant lines, framing the face, or hips with hands..... There are people out there who can do all that by intuition, BUT as for me- mirrors please! I Need to know what certain move looks like on ME before I remember what it feels like!

Oh and besides, if a student does not like mirror she can concentrate on the teacher, but if she really needs to see herself and the mirror is not there, then it is bad....

Ohy and Maria, you are a genius, that curtain thing must be a reall blessing to accomodate everyone!

{shrugs} I guess you can teach cooking also without letting the students taste the food.

I just don't see why anyone would want to deny students one of their main senses for self-feedback and learning.

Wanting to not have mirrors in the room is very different from having mirrors and also using non-visual learning techniques.

Sedonia

I think it's that people do learn differently. I have heard that you should teach in at least four different ways (any kind of teaching) because some people learn visually, some physically, etc. My preference is not to have mirrors, but as I said, where I teach now the walls are full of them!

Perhaps it is some kind of belly-lexia.

Dance

Brea said:

As I said, I see the value of mirrors for those above reasons, in a perfect world. Any advice on how to cut down on the distractedness? Some people, while watching themselves and doing fine, later on will be extremely confused because it seems they have learned with their eyes instead of their body...if that makes sense.

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Dear Brea,
On my site there is an article called "Multiple Intelligences", which applies the work of Howard Gardner to learning dance. Raqs Azar.. It might be of interest to you.
I have not found that I have that problem with students. they all seem to learn at least in part visually before they can feel or sense the movement in their own bodies. Some will rely on kenetic or other learning, as well.
Regards,
A'isha