dancing with a saber

hey everybody
So this is my first thread ever I've been bellydancing for about 3 years now... and I'd like to try dancing with a saber. But I'm insecure.:think: It's cool and shows people your skills, but I'm worried about my principles. For I'm against any sort of war and weapons in everyday life. And I think if your dancing with a saber you're showing men that weapons are sexy. So I'd like to know if you're dancing with a saber and how your attitude towards weapons is?!?

Greetings to you!

honestly, i think it's cool!:lol: but you need a good skill for that!

marob said:

hey everybody
So this is my first thread ever I've been bellydancing for about 3 years now... and I'd like to try dancing with a saber. But I'm insecure.:think: It's cool and shows people your skills, but I'm worried about my principles. For I'm against any sort of war and weapons in everyday life. And I think if your dancing with a saber you're showing men that weapons are sexy. So I'd like to know if you're dancing with a saber and how your attitude towards weapons is?!?

Greetings to you!

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Welcome to the forums!

I would love to learn it one day, and my message would be that rather use the sword for dancing than fighting!

To be honest I have never thought of it in that light and this is the first time I've ever heard a comment like this. Personally, I wouldn't be concerned about passing this message on because when you dance/balance a sword at no point do you wang it around like a weapon, strike fighting poses or posture in a 'I have a weapon and I am a bad ass sword fighting machine' type of way. As you already acknowledged the point is to show off your dexterity.

I don't know what the general public perception is, but speaking as someone who spends two hours every Sunday practicing sword technique, it's obvious that swords used for bellydancing could never be used as war weapons... for a start they're all so darn pretty.

Interesting question.

A sword is a prop with a number of symbolic meanings. It can symbolize a cutting away of the past, the severing of affection, or the slash of emotional pain. If it is presented in a violent manner, then of course it can symbolize aggression and war. No prop is innocuous if it is used to depict violence. Imagine a presentation wherein the dancer uses her veil as a garrot or her candles for arson. That beautiful silk, those glowing candles take on new symbolism then, hmm?

I think if your dancing with a saber you're showing men that weapons are sexy.

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If this is your perception of sword dances, then I can see how you might struggle with the issue. Are you seeing the sword as a symbol of masculinity that contrasts with the femininity of dance, which automatically translates to passion? War is a kind of passion, too, and so you could easily use a sword to depict violence with sexual overtones. I know some very small women who drive very large pickup trucks simply because some men perceive the juxtaposition of tiny woman/big masculine vehicle as sexy.

(By the way, folks, this is not an attempt to resume the old feminine essence of belly dance argument, so don't even start- I'm talking about a particular instance of perception.)

It is an interesting perception of using a sword for dance. I don't think the sword portrays fighting and weapons as much as the sword portrays balance and elogance in your dance.

Thanks for all the kind advice.
@Fatima: Thank you, I'll try the tray though I think (but I don't know for sure) trays are harder to balance. And yeah you might be right about the audience: maybe just one or two will think weapons are sexy. But I admit I'm still trying to change the world and if I am "convincing" one or two it's already too many for me. Some might say that this isn't my thing to do and the world is getting worse, no matter if I'm handling weapons. But I think it's important to care in every way you can. Save the earth it's the only planet with belly dancing costumes!
Nah, just kidding.

@Shamsa: I think it's cool too, dangerous and hot. But it's still a weapon...

@Reen.Bloom: Nice Idea (I'm serious!)

@Salome: *Lol* I would like to see the dancer who believes she's a "bad-ass-sword-fighting-machine" :lol: You' re right partly it's about dexterity. But the sword is like a symbol for danger. It's supposed to be sharp (well at least the audience thinks so) and if a dancer is good you can almost hear the front row whispering: OMG, she's putting that sharp thing on her waist! It has a certain thrill, with an umbrella it would never work. And guys think that women handling weapons are sexy (The brother of a friend of mine says so quite often and I have seen a place to play paintball where girls are paid to play this in bikinis). I have no idea why this is. Maybe it's the thrill as well. So why aren't we using something different like canes? It would show our skill. But we (this is me included) do want to make the maximum impression we can have on the audience. I don't know what is stronger - my will to persuade everyone I'm a good dancer or to be truely one and serious about changing the world.:think:

@nicknack: I admire you for learning this art(For I don't expect you to kill anyone with it) Do you do shows with swords? I think you're one of the few people in the audience who could tell it's a "fake" sword. Well some are made in a way that even the audience can tell it must be fake (adornments!). But to me it's not about if it's fake or real...it's about it symbolizing a weapon. I also can't appreciate kids with faked guns running around and screaming "Bang bang", I just can't. Maybe I need a psychologist:lol:

Save the earth it's the only planet with belly dancing costumes!

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I want a tee shirt...

I agree that problem came to my mind too, I own an air rifle and I love target shooting, it is not to say that I would ever shoot at any alive creature, and it is not that I approve of any violence....

But some things became a sport that maybe came out of fighting and weapons.... Like target shooting, or archery or fencing.... When you watch sport competitions in say fencing you dont think that they want to kill each other, but rather want to show off dexterity.... Same goes for martial arts.... I have seen several times "performances" with a sword (eastern martial arts) and I cant help thinking that what originated as fighting turned into almost a dance.....

I guess a bellydancer with a sword sort of says "look at me Im dangerous, or I Can defend myself" rather than promoting war.... I suppose that's what it would mean for me, "I can stand up for myself".... Sort of a symbol, not a weapon.....

As for public opinion, and stereotype of a girl in a big car, or with a sword or whatever, if I cared about stereotypes I would not bellydance!

Ouch paintball in bikinis? THAT must be painful!!!!!

@Shanazel: I've never seen it like that ("Cutting away of the past"). Wow. This could make it easier. Like that you're giving swords a new spiritual meaning... But the origin is still bothering me. To me veils stand for clothes, candles for light but sabers...rather killing. And this was usually done by men in war(or some other occasion), of course I link it to men and masculinity. Ah how I hate linking men and war. I've recently dated a soldier-> That has made it much harder for me to hate war cause I just can't hate men
But back to the subject Keep posting other possible meanings of sabers! Maybe you can convince me through that!

Hi Marob. I just wanted to say that I think it's very cool that you put so much thought in what you project on stage and also in the rest of life. I love that you want to save the world and believe that the small things can make a difference. I hate, hate, hate weapon and violence glorification too.

marob said:

hey everybody
So this is my first thread ever I've been bellydancing for about 3 years now... and I'd like to try dancing with a saber. But I'm insecure.:think: It's cool and shows people your skills, but I'm worried about my principles. For I'm against any sort of war and weapons in everyday life. And I think if your dancing with a saber you're showing men that weapons are sexy. So I'd like to know if you're dancing with a saber and how your attitude towards weapons is?!?

Greetings to you!

Click to expand...

I hope to dance with a saber within the year. Until then, I'm keeping my cane handy for balancing practice.

I hope if I dance with a cane, no one thinks it is some kind of statement about disabled people!

And I think dancing with a saber shows men that you are strong and sexy - it's rare that you will find a man with such a symbolic/poetic turn of mind as to view it as advocating violence. And IMO men watching a sword dance don't think of women going to war (although of course, many of us do), but more of a woman being unafraid and ready to take on anything (or anybody) who comes her way. It is more of a primal dance, than a particularly social relevant dance, IMO.

Although you could create a sword dance piece as a social commentary. You might catch some flack for that (pun intended).

...

Shanazel said:

I want a tee shirt...

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Let's order a stock of them! lol I want a pink and a red one.

Did you know that cane originates from the stick fighting that men do in the middle east? So cane dancing is a take on a fighting dance... but we never see it that way.

Do y'all want the slogan on the T-shirt I'm designing?!!

adiemus said:

Did you know that cane originates from the stick fighting that men do in the middle east? So cane dancing is a take on a fighting dance... but we never see it that way.

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I did know that, but you never know how the GP (general public) or the TB (touchy bellydancers) will react. I know people who thought dancing with spoons was some ridiculous sort of artsy modern fusion.:lol:

And a lady in my bellydance class said that tahtib is derived from morris dancing, so it must be true!

Actually, I think that men are genetically programmed to want to hit each other (and the ground) with big sticks. You get it in Britain, Africa, the Middle East, and even Hawaii.

adiemus said:

Do y'all want the slogan on the T-shirt I'm designing?!!

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Go for it!

...and even wee boys who haven't been socialised (knowingly anyway!) to guns and fighting - they grab sticks and either go 'bang! bang!' or play as if they're swords or clubs...