Shimmy-Music for beginner

Hi all,

i've just started my vey 1st bd lesson last Mon... and having a slight problem with shimmy... e one being taught is e "front & back" movement, which i think is e egyptian shimmy. i noticed that my instructor's heels tend to lift off e ground slightly when doing shimmy, but it seems like mine heels are "fixed" on e ground instead... Am i doing it the wrong way? :think:

anyway, she told me to have more practice on it... is there any music recommendation to train/practice beginner shimmy? i've got a whole collection of Bellydance Superstars Vol. 1 to 9, not sure which is suitable... help, anyone?

also, is there any recommended exercise to improve shimmy? Thanks alot!!

P.S. sorry if this has been asked before....

There are about a billion different ways to do a shimmy - all correct. It sounds to me like you are doing a correct shimmy, but not the one you are learning in class.

There are a couple of different shimmies that fit the description you're giving for the one you're learning in class, so I'll try to help with a few of them.

Basic shimmy with heel lift:
Start out with your feet flat on the floor and gently raise one heel off the ground, keeping a nice vertical lift in the hip as you do. If you start out slow with this one and build up to speed, you'll get the hang of it. This shimmy is more skeletally motivated, being driven by the up & down movement of the leg as the heel lifts.

Choo-choo shimmy:
Start out on the balls of your feet and use your thigh muscles to drive this shimmy as you normally would on your flat feet. Raising your foot slightly off the ground helps with the momentum of this shimmy and gives you the means by which to travel with it, which is where I suspect the name comes from. (someone will be certain to correct me either way on this one!)

It is very important to remember that some types of shimmies come more naturally than others. Having difficulty with one over another makes you normal.

ic3st0rmer said:

i've just started my vey 1st bd lesson last Mon... and having a slight problem with shimmy... e one being taught is e "front & back" movement, which i think is e egyptian shimmy. i noticed that my instructor's heels tend to lift off e ground slightly when doing shimmy, but it seems like mine heels are "fixed" on e ground instead... Am i doing it the wrong way?

Click to expand...

The received wisdom when talking to students is that the student's teacher is always right - but this disturbs me. First, teaching shimmy on the first lesson is not a good idea. It is really, really important that the underlying movement is taught slowly and clearly so that the shimmy can be practiced correctly from the start. Practicing wrong means more stuff to unlearn in the long term. Shimmy is something to start doing once you have basic movements under your belt.

Next, from the description it could be the "Modern Egyptian" shimmy - again not a beginner move - or it could be the old style twist shimmy - which is more achieveable. The label is not important - but the generation of the movement is. From your message it is unclear which - again a problem.

If it is a twist shimmy and the instructor is travelling sideways - heels off the floor is pretty standard (it's hard to move that fast on flat feet). If she isn't travelling with it, then for beginners it is normal to start with flat feet - that way they don't "cheat" by lifting their heels to generate the movement. As you get more experience you can do the shimmy on demi - but with the heels fixed in space.

Lesson one under your belt - now you have a lovely long journey ahead of you. Enjoy it!

thanks so much for e reply... i'm enjoying it every moment!! :dance::dance:

for the 1st lesson (2 hrs) these were taught: headslide, hip drop/up & down hips, basic shimmy, moving ribcage left & right, bit of hip twist.

when i'm practicing shimmy @ home, my calves get kinda sore after several mins... :think: should i minimise the time till 5 mins & below? or i'm supposed to feel the soreness at other part of the legs instead?

ic3st0rmer said:

when i'm practicing shimmy @ home, my calves get kinda sore after several mins... :think: should i minimise the time till 5 mins & below? or i'm supposed to feel the soreness at other part of the legs instead?

Click to expand...

I believe that some people use the calf to increase tension in a shimmy - but it is not a beginner move. WIthout being sure which shimmy you have been taught it is difficult but you should not be getting sore calves! Shimmies are generally driven by the thighs (quads/hamstrings) or the waist (obliques/QLs). Other muscles should be relaxed.

Please do not practice your shimmy for 5 minutes unless you are 100% sure you are doing it right. From your post I suspect you are unsure what you should be doing.

If you want to practice - get in front of a mirror and make sure you can move your hips up and down smoothly - without a twist, without any sideway movement, without jerking, without hanging off your ITs. If need be set up a couple of chairs exactly the width of your hips on either side - if you touch them work out why - you shouldn't. That you can do for 5 minutes.

Then practice your hip drop and lift - make sure your torso doesn't bob up and down or the hip move to the side or the heel pump up and down.

For twists - absolutely horizontal.

For rib work - make sure it is your ribs and not your spine - and it is in the plane you intend to work in.

Don't bother about the headslides - not really part of BD and either you an do them so why practice - or you can't and you might hurt yourself.

Through all of this make sure your posture is correct - knees over the middle of your foot, pelvis is neutral, head, shoulders, hips, knees, feet all aligned vertically.

thanks alot, Kashmir, i think i'm having a better understanding..

btw, is it advisable to use this video as a guide to practice?

Belly Dancing Shimmies : Belly Dancing Shimmies: Foundation & Basics - YouTube

I wouldn't recommend that one because it starts you off with a biomechanical way of doing the shimmy & then moves you to a muscle-focused move when you get up to speed. Better to start off with the muscle-driven lift/drop combo in the first place because then when you bring it up to speed, the movement is already in muscle memory & you're not trying to shake your knees to death.

I taught a session on lifts, drops & shimmies this afternoon and starting from the muscle base made everyone pick the move up very quickly - to the point they were able to do much more complex variations because they understood how the move was generated & didn't have to keep changing the motivation of the move for each new posture.

Back to the original question - you want a drum-based song that has a lot of pace variety so you can drill at slow (lift/drops) medium (wobbles) and fast (shimmies) throughout the song. A lot of hossam ramzy tracks are particularly good for this, although you want to steer clear of the namia's hip tracks because the accents are too heavy & distracting for this kind of drilling.

ohhh.. thanks for e recommendation.. i've just found some and i really love them!!

years ago, my left knee started having a "cracking" sound when i hit my butt with my heels (like the sound of cracking knuckles), though right knee has it as well but seldom...

when i tried the front & back shimmy, does it cause strain to knees? as my left knee will "crack" more frequently... if i don't "crack" it, my knees seem to be more stiff... will also check with instructor on my next lesson...

Definitely talk to your instructor about any pre-existing medical conditions & old injuries. If she's worth her salt, she'll find a different way for you to execute the moves that doesn't aggrivate your knee problem. If she blows it off as unimportant, you should probably seek another teacher.

For now I'd work on building up strength and dexterity in the thigh muscles by drilling the lift/drops, wobbles & shimmies (8-16 counts of each over the course of a song no longer than 4 minutes, taking breaks where required).

Darshiva said:

I wouldn't recommend that one because it starts you off with a biomechanical way of doing the shimmy & then moves you to a muscle-focused move when you get up to speed. Better to start off with the muscle-driven lift/drop combo in the first place because then when you bring it up to speed, the movement is already in muscle memory & you're not trying to shake your knees to death.

Click to expand...

Part of the problem is teaching shimmy in under 2 minutes! For many people using their legs and bending their knees gives them the feel of the movement. However, I like to think students are getting to use their lateral flexors to do a clean hip rock before we start looking at a shimmy - which is usually several weeks into the course (and months for some).

ic3st0rmer - look at how her hips stay within their own width. That is what you need to aim for for this type of shimmy (which I suspect is different from what your teacher is doing). Also implied - but glossed over - is starting slow. Rock the hips at half time, then full time and only when you can do that cleanly and correctly - double time ie shimmy. And remember, smooooth and relaxed (your butt and thighs should be soft and wobbly)

I like to make sure they have the base move down & know that they aren't obliged to pick up the speed if they can't handle it just yet, and to drop back the pace to something they can handle if they start to lose it.

I never got the idea of a shimmy from the knee bending thing, it always threw me off when we picked up the pace. I'm having more success with the teaching from muscle groups, possibly because the way that I teach shimmies is as a variant of a lift/drop so students who don't have the control to pick up the pace know that they know how to do the move, they just need to practice more to get it up to the speed they want. More complex shimmy variants come later.

Take a look at various shimmies and tip for doing them in this previous thread:
http://www.bellydanceforums.net/instructors-students/11369-how-many-shimmies-there.html

I am most emphatically NOT an instructor and I bow to their greater knowledge, but I do think this might be somewhat helpful for you:

Sirène said:

I am most emphatically NOT an instructor and I bow to their greater knowledge, but I do think this might be somewhat helpful for you:

Click to expand...

Nicely filmed and you can see what she is doing. I’d call this a hip rock though rather than a hip lift (around here that has a accent up and one foot on demi). For a shimmy I’d usually want it softer. Partially because she’s using her legs. Lifting the hip by straightening your leg is a start – but as Darshiva says – best lose it in the long term

Feet better facing forward ie in parallel and I usually start people off with the feet and knees under the hip (not the outside of the pelvic girdle but the hip joint itself) – she says it but doesn’t do it.

The very important thing to do here is to not equate knee movement with shimmies because that can lead to trouble in the knee joints. Yes, there is a straightening & bending of the leg, but this is because that's what happens when you contract & relax the muscles in the legs, and it is extremely important to note that when doing this series of moves.

I agree with Kashmir that this is very well filmed and I like the music she drills with, but I do very strongly discourage the use of knees in shimmies because of the injuries that can result from it and the feelings of exclusion from older dancers or those who have been told to not do anything that aggrivates an existing knee condition. Just remember that the knees come along for the ride on this one, that they aren't motivating the move, and you'll be fine.

thanks so much for all the replies... it really helps!! ^_^

i've checked with my instructor yesterday, and yes, i'm doing it wrong *heheh*... she corrected my standing position & stuff... well, at least i dont feel so retard when doing shimmy now... ^_^

we learnt chest rotation yesterday... another retarded move i'm facing... *grrr*

/sigh
Here we go again...

1. There is no such thing as knee-driven movement. The knees do not "motivate" ANY movement. Knees are not muscles. Only muscles can drive movement. To say that the legs only bend and straighten because the muscles are contracting and releasing is redundant... that is the only way the legs could possibly bend and straighten, that is the only way we could possibly move our bodies at all.

2. It doesn't look to me like Irina is driving the movement from the bending and straightening of the legs. It looks to me as if she is driving it from her various core muscles and the legs are "going along for the ride."

3. There is nothing harmful abound bending and straightening your legs, whether the hip movement is being driven by that motion OR whether the hip movement is being driven some other way and the legs are "going along for the ride." So long as you are not locking the knees back, bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is no more harmful than walking. The legs are MEANT to be bent and straightened.

4. [Some] Belly dancers are the only people I've personally encountered that are so darn afraid of this perfectly normal motion. In ballet legs are completely straight unless in plié. Look at how straight ballroom dancers' legs are when they dance. But belly dancers... God forbid we ever straighten our legs! We think our knees are too fragile to do what they are meant to do!

Yame said:

So long as you are not locking the knees back, bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is no more harmful than walking.

Click to expand...

This.

I have met very very very few people in my life who actually try to shimmy by locking the knees backward, or even attempting to hyper-extend the leg. While I agree that we need to warn students against doing so, I think it has become an urban legend of sorts -- like razor blades in the apples at Halloween. I don't think people are actually doing it -- certainly not in my classes or in classes I've been in!

Also, I have found I can transfer the workload to various parts of my leg (the calf, the front of the thigh, the back of the thigh, etc.) by shifting my weight around my feet. Different shoes affect my shimmy as well. Where I FOCUS on the shimmy also affects this -- if I let it "hang low" in the body it generates fatigue in different muscles than when I try to pull it higher in the body. Adding or transferring the work from the bending/straightening knee to the obliques or the glutes changes the feel as well.

There is no one-size-fits-all shimmy. A lot of how I shimmy depends upon my energy level, my current weight, my shoes and costuming, the type of stage, and what the music is telling me to do right then. Unless I'm deliberate trying to get across the feeling of tension and tightness, my only real rule to shimmy is that it's relaxed and makes you feel good watching it and doing it.

Yame said:

3. There is nothing harmful abound bending and straightening your legs, whether the hip movement is being driven by that motion OR whether the hip movement is being driven some other way and the legs are "going along for the ride." So long as you are not locking the knees back, bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is no more harmful than walking. The legs are MEANT to be bent and straightened.

Click to expand...

I believe what we are discussing is the difference between knowing how to control the motion & shaking ones knees to death. There is a big difference between the two and this is a major reason (I believe) why good teachers* try to leave off on teaching shimmies until later on. The shaking them around without thought can lead to injury because the lack of control can cause injury to ligaments.

Also, regarding the preciousness of knees in bellydance over other dance styles - did you know that knee injury is the top reason why dancers in other styles quit dancing? We may be over-protective of our knees in bellydance, but at least we are the ones with active performers into their sixties & seventies. The attitude towards the knees seems to be a contributing factor. While I would never tell any student to ignore what they are told in another classroom, in mine they will always be expected to care for their body in the pursuit of bellydance.

*Please note that I do not imply that teachers who do it early on are bad, as I am one to do that sort of thing, just that there is a reason behind why they do it this way.

Darshiva said:

I believe what we are discussing is the difference between knowing how to control the motion & shaking ones knees to death. There is a big difference between the two and this is a major reason (I believe) why good teachers* try to leave off on teaching shimmies until later on. The shaking them around without thought can lead to injury because the lack of control can cause injury to ligaments.

Click to expand...

If that's what you meant, I must have misunderstood. It sounded like the age-old " 'knee' shimmies are dangerous" debate.
In any case, all movements we do must be controlled. Nothing should be just purposelessly moving around. I think this is true to anything we do and not just shimmies. So, no disagreement here.

I also don't teach shimmies early on. They are the last thing I teach baby beginners, because they require the person to already have some isolation ability. If you can already isolate, then you just need to get used to building speed. So I let them practice basic isolations for weeks and once I feel like that's up to par, I tackle shimmies.

Darshiva said:

Also, regarding the preciousness of knees in bellydance over other dance styles - did you know that knee injury is the top reason why dancers in other styles quit dancing? We may be over-protective of our knees in bellydance, but at least we are the ones with active performers into their sixties & seventies. The attitude towards the knees seems to be a contributing factor.

Click to expand...

I do know that knee injury is the top reason why ballet dancers quit, I am not sure about other dance forms. I do believe there are a lot of ballet teachers out there who do not teach safe technique and/or favor certain aesthetics that aren't "good" for the dancer, for example hyperextension of the legs. Also, you have to remember these people dance for 8 hours a day almost daily, which is a lot more wear and tear on the body than most of us go through, and the stuff they do is much more physically demanding. There is also often a culture of dancing through pain and dancing on injuries. So, naturally, they do end their careers earlier and sometimes that does happen due to injuries.
Still, there are many ballet dancers who simply retire because they are far beyond their prime, but live long, healthy lives far from the stage. My ballet teacher is about 60 and has no knee problems whatsoever.

We get to perform into our sixties and seventies because we don't necessarily have to do anything that is super-athletic and/or risky, not because we make sure never to straighten our legs when we dance. Yes, part of it IS because we tend to cultivate a healthier culture, we don't advocate dancing on injuries, we listen to our bodies when they tell us to stop. I love this about belly dance. These are all good things! But there definitely is this myth floating around out there that bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is somehow bad and must be avoided, and I've found that that is simply not true. There is no need to be THAT overprotective.