Class in Egypt- Amora Shams

A year later. I get a belated pm from Amora, apparently mad at Leyla:

This is the message that was sent:
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Dear Amanda? Sorry I do not know your name.

Well, I am Amora Shams, I came across this forum by mistake, but I have to say something:

I just hate when people talks about someone who doesn't even know.

Isn't funny?

In actual fact, Madam Leyla who posted also a forum against me, didn't allow my comments, if you look for them, you won't find them, she deleted them.

The funny thing, it's that seems that it's very common that in USA people likes to critizy about everything.

The reason why my students (who do the course) learn to become Belly Dancers in just 20 days, it's because I teach totally different to all the teachers I know around the world.

It's nothing to do with being famous, it's to be about being honest and direct.

If you are teaching slowly, of corse will take 4 years to learn, but I have over my sholders more than 20 years teaching bellydance in a very intensive way, so everyone who passes through my hands, they become bellydancers in RECORD TIME.

The proove of what I am telling you, its it the comments of my students and the video I posted them in my website Become a Belly Dancer - Danza del Vientre - orientalischer Tanz - ????? ?????? - ????? - Arabiako dantza - αραβικ? χορ? - ???????? ????? - ??????? - Arabische dans - Arab tánc - G?arbi ?fin - ???? (????

And I will like to add you, that since few months ago, the UNESCO has recognised my Certificates, so now it's not only from my individual point of view as a bellydancer recognised as one of the best in different countries, now also the UNESCO and the CID are recognising that my certificates are a proove that what I teach and my students learn it's high quality.

It's true that when my students end the 70hBDC are just BellyDancers with little experience, this it's why they have to do a second course to complete them selfs as Professional High Quality BellyDancers.

This Second Course I share it with Madam Zaki from Egypt, and if you know who it's Souhair Zaki, then you will know who I am talking about it's not a beginner BellyDancer, it's the BEST BELLYDANCER in the last century under the point of view of most Egyptians.

If I was that bad dancer or teacher, Madam Zaki will not like to work with me as a teacher.

Next time, before making offensive comments about anyone's work, please make a proper research about that person.

Warm Regards
Amora Shams


On her web site she mentions training with SAHAR Zaki, who she says is Suhair's sister, so she's misrepresenting herself a bit in this message.

Amora, I apologize for being snarky, but such a questionable claim requires a very strong amount of proof. I am prepared to change my mind if I see graduate dancers from your program performing as well as the professional Egyptian dancers touring in the US.

Talking about someone whithout knowing her way of teaching and her students resoults.

Hi everyone!

It's so funny how people likes to talk about someone whithout knowing her way of teaching and her students resoults.

Please visit:
students commenting: Amora Shams belly dance students feedbacks and forum
students video dancing after the course: http://www.becomeabellydancer.com/

I know that most of the teachers around the world will hate someone like me, but talking about me without making a deep research, or a minimum research as checking students commenting about the course, or trying to contact them on facebook, or watching students Belly Dancing after the course, well... what shall I say?

You think that's fare?, to talk about someone without knowing that person's work?

I will like to say few things:

I have over my sholders more than 20 years teaching intensively experience

I grew up between bellydancers and I start to BellyDance at home at the age of 8, but my mother didn't allow me to dance with public until she gave me her intensive private classes, so in theory I started to BellyDance in year 1993 when I was 17.

So I grew up in the atmosphere of BellyDance school. I didn't go to learn from any teacher that normally they teach you VERY slowly, beacuse they earn more money teaching you slowly in few years because like that they have that money as a monthly guarantee, and like that they do not get a competence taking them the teacher or dancer jobs, at the contrary, my mother was very exigent with me, she said to me, until you are not the best I will not allow you to dance in front of public.

And trust me, when I started to dance I was the best! very beginner bellydancer, but the best in every place I danced. But until I didn't leave Spain, I was not that recognised ,I was just recognised by the arabian restaurants, but ths spaniard didn't know what was that about BellyDance in those moments. Even so, for 3 summers people from all Spain use to cross the country (more than 1000km) to come to see me and my mother performing at a place called "La Jaima de Caños de Meca" and they named us "Las Moras de Caños" (that means: the Morish of Caños).

In Casablanca I did a competition in the Sheraton Hotel "against" the queen of BellyDance, the public had to choose the best dancer, and they chose me as the best BellyDancer in Morocco in year 1997.

In Paris while I was dancing in 3 places at the same time, they did another quest, and they chose me telling me that I was the best in France, that was year 1998.

In Egypt after I did an audition at the Sheraton Hotel Montazah in Alexandria I was told that I was the best foreigner bellydancer that they saw in Egypt, and guess what, also I was told the same in the Sheraton Hotel in Sharm El Sheikh where I was working as a contracted BellyDancer, that was year 2008.

Maybe I am not the best dancer in the world nowadays, I really admire many dancers myself, but what it is unfare, it's to insult me and my work, specially if you do not know me at all. I say this to you as a dancer, who says how difficult was for you to learn, and to anyone who says the same you say.

Because the reality, even if I grew up between dancers and my mother was my only teacher, was very hard for me to learn to BellyDance as a Professional dancer, took me many years, and this it's because each person has a different way of learning depending on the teacher methods and students willings.

My mother wanted the best for me, and she taught me in a very hard way, always telling me that all what i was doing was wrong, ... and Iwill never say that to my students, because if I use that method, I know by shure (from my own experience) that they will get stressed up and do it worst, so they will take ages to learn, like I did.

There are many other ways to get a student to do specific things, and from my experience, I CAN TEACH TO BE A BELLYDANCER TO ANYONE WHO REALLY WANTS TO LEARN IN JUST 20 DAYS, independly from their starting level. If you do not belive me, I invite you to ask my students and check by yourself that the Courses I offer are totally TRUE.

I am not a scammer or I am not lying to anyone, I am just a teacher who helps those who really want to learn properly in record time.

And the prove it's that Madam Zaki (sister of SOUHAIR ZAKI) it's sharing with me the 2nd course, the course to Become a World Wide Recognsied BellyDancer by the UNESCO.

Visit the website for more information about all this: http://www.BecomeBellyDancer.com/

Warm Regards
Amora Shams

Come to Egypt now, I will be in Cairo in few days. I do not have evey day American students, but if you sent a Beginner NOW, trust me, I she will be your competence in few days!

By the way, yes Madam Zaki it's Sahar Zaki as I said in my post in the forum. English it's not my first languaje, so sometimes I do mistakes when I explain things. I speak Spanish, French, English and Arabic, so with so many languajes, I get confused many times. Was not in purpose to make you understand that Souhair Zaki was the teacher, if you know Souhair Zaki, she it's not teaching or dancing any more, but YES, Sahar Zaki it's her sister, and she it's the teacher who I share the second course, because she doesn't know how to teach beginners, she just teaches Professional Dancers to dance like her sister Souhair Zaki.

And also I sent you a messege to you because I was trying to reply to the post and just gave me the option to sent private messege to the posters at that moment, but after 2 hours, letted me to post it in the public forum.

and about the year thing, today it's the first time I see this forum. I just registered if you see it. I dindn't know about this forum until I was seaching in the internet about the UNESCO registered me in their listing's in early's 90's. And that's how I found about this forum.

My Godness! my students always tells me not to get ungry with this because I know who I am and they also know that, but to be honest, I hate when people talks about people's works just to hurt them, without knowing them at all.

Thanks God, God it's over all of us, and God will protect those who are truthful.

Amora Shams

Aziyade said:

A year later. I get a belated pm from Amora, apparently mad at Leyla:

This is the message that was sent:
***************
On her web site she mentions training with SAHAR Zaki, who she says is Suhair's sister, so she's misrepresenting herself a bit in this message.

Amora, I apologize for being snarky, but such a questionable claim requires a very strong amount of proof. I am prepared to change my mind if I see graduate dancers from your program performing as well as the professional Egyptian dancers touring in the US.

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Those are pretty spectacular claims and if you put them on the internet why be surprised or offended that people with years of experience otherwise as teachers, professionals and students have opinions?

And I stick to my statement that no raw beginner can learn belly dance (beyond basics) in 20 days. The physical conditioning alone takes longer - let alone musicality and the huge list of extras she lists.

Asking if raw students thought they had learnt to belly dance or liked the course is not a measure. A measure would be to take people with no previous dance experience - put them through the course and have an independent experienced dancer test them on technique, musicality, improvisation, use of props, cultural knowledge etc.

Of course, anyone can have opinions but with foundations on knowing the teacher and her students resoults.

If you do NOT have those basics, you can NOT have truthfully an opinion, you will be just guessing from your own experiences as a student or a teacher.

In fact this it's the 2nd Forum in all the World (both in the USA), were they say that I am a "scammer", and those who afirmate such an insultive comment they DO NOT KNOW ME AT ALL !!!

Do you think that's fair?

Amora Shams

Aniseteph said:

Those are pretty spectacular claims and if you put them on the internet why be surprised or offended that people with years of experience otherwise as teachers, professionals and students have opinions?

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I disagree that you need to know anything about the teacher or her students to have an opinion on her claims.

It's absolutely NOT guessing for an experienced teacher to say "with my knowledge and experience of belly dancing and teaching it to students I think this is an unreasonable timescale for them to absorb the depth of knowledge and skill that I would expect in a professional belly dancer". It's an entirely valid opinion.

I would say it is unfair to call anyone a scammer without having a fair idea of their motives and that they knew they were not delivering what they were claiming to.

I'm actually kind of interested in creating a dialogue about this topic -- what is the bare minimum of stuff that we absolutely need to know in order to be professional dancers?

A lot of us here have side interests in the history, music, regional folk dancers, etc. But what if your goal is to simply be a "professional bellydancer" -- and let's assume working in a nightclub or hotel is your goal.

I want to spin this off as its own thread, but Amora, I hope that you will contribute to it. I would like to use the syllabus on your site as well as the syllabi of other professional dancers training programs, so everybody grab your favorite program and let's talk about what we NEED to know, and how effectively we can convey that to students in the shortest time period possible.

link

I think --- just maybe -- we have a slight "lost in translation" moment here.

I'm not sure that Amora is actually saying she will take a raw beginner and in 20 days give them the knowledge they need to know in order to be a professional dancer. I think she is offering professional training programs, and one of those is the pro dancer course. (Similar to Hadia's then?)

week belly dance courses & UNESCO.

70 hours to learn the basics. Then 80 hours to learn "perfection" -- or professional techniques. That makes a lot more sense to me.

Perhaps when she's saying "professional" she's not using that word the same way a native English speaker would use it, as in ready to go out and get a job -- ?

Amora, if I have misunderstood your information, then I apologize. I would suggest (and this is not to be mean or insulting) that you work with an English translator to make the wording on your website more clear.

If you really want to go to Egypt, go to Ahlan Wa Sahlan and/or take some privates with Raqia Hassan. Other great teachers are Aida Nour and Mahmoud Reda, the great dancers are Dina, Soraia Zaied, Randa Kamel, Tito, and others. Many of these people also tour in other countries, especially now that the situation in Egypt isn't so bright. None of these people will claim they can teach you how to be a great dancer in a month. Because they can't. But if you work hard, training with them will greatly improve your dancing in a month.

Yame said:

If you really want to go to Egypt, go to Ahlan Wa Sahlan and/or take some privates with Raqia Hassan. Other great teachers are Aida Nour and Mahmoud Reda, the great dancers are Dina, Soraia Zaied, Randa Kamel, Tito, and others. Many of these people also tour in other countries, especially now that the situation in Egypt isn't so bright. None of these people will claim they can teach you how to be a great dancer in a month. Because they can't. But if you work hard, training with them will greatly improve your dancing in a month.

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Yame, if one would have to choose (since it seems to be one or the other anymore) ...... Raqia or Aida?

Aziyade said:

Yame, if one would have to choose (since it seems to be one or the other anymore) ...... Raqia or Aida?

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I would choose Raqia, but this isn't a completely informed opinion as I've taken workshops with Raqia every year for the past 3 years, and none with Aida. I believe my technique to be somewhat Raqia-based, in an indirect way. My style is very different, but in comparison to other dancers who learned in the US, my way of generating most movements is closer to Raqia's than theirs. So I'd love to be able to study with her intensively.

Dear Aziyade,

Yes, maybe it's my way of trying to explain somethings typing in text, but what I am shure it's that after the 70hBDCourse, my students start dancing as regular basis at arabian restautants and being claimed for parties in many countires such as USA, in China, in England, in Spain, in Canada, in South America, in Australia, etc.

And after doing this course, then they need to bellydance facing public for a minimum of 1 year to have the strength and the knowledge to be able to do the 2nd course: the 80hBDC. That's why only professional bellydancers can enter to study the second course.

Also professional bellydancers can do the 2nd course straight away if they have a minimum of 3 years of dancing with public experience.

Some students try to do the 1st course in less time (6 hours/day), and technically that's impossible. I have try two times, and they get so tired in the middle way, that they can not complete the course.

The last one who did try to do the course in 2 weeks, was Hillarie Champ (from USA), that I call her Helwa. She never danced anything in her live, she was an absolute beginner in all the sence of the word.

But in just 20 hours, she started to do her 1st Baladi, improvising and feeling the music at the same time, was wonderful honestly. To see someone who didn't know how to dance at all few days ago (recorded on video), become in just 5 or 6 days into someone who looked that she was dancing from childhood (also recorded in video).

When I saw that, I invited another private student, that she just arrived the day before, to see Helwa do the baladi she just started to do with "Tarab", and guess what? this new student started too CRY from EMOTION, she could not belive it!

Both they could not belive it, dancing like that with all the feeling from the inside, like "Tarab"!

To dance like Helwa did, it's very difficult to do learning with any standard bellydance teacher, and she did it with me. And it's not the first time this quick development has happen to my students.

Do you know how many times, my students have told me:
"You are the teacher I was praying God to give me"
"You are the teacher I was looking for all my life"

I get many comments like this all the time.

And tell me, how many teachers you know that can make someone bellydance from level absolutley zero into dancing like they have been dancing all their lifes?

I do not know anyone, not even my mother (with all my respect to her).

I invite you to see the students commenting about me and my courses, and if you want to contact them, they are in my facebook.

Warm Regards
Amora Shams

Comment from Helwa (Hillarie Champ):
is amazing, both as a teacher and as a person. She is probably the most passionate and devoted teacher and individual I have ever met. She gives all of her knowledge and herself to her teaching. I first contacted Amora a couple of years ago with an interest in her style of teaching, particularly as it was taught in a very intensive manner, but it wasn't until late August 2011 that I finally caught a break at work and was able to get away and take a private intensive 2-week course from her in Egypt. Amora's courses are intensive and yield results. Amora gives you every tool you need to become a professional bellydancer, and so much more. I am thankful to Amora for being the most amazing, caring and compassionate person, teacher and friend whom I will charish always. My only regret is not having been able to study with Amora for a longer period of time...luckly this is subdued by the fact that I will undoubtedly return to study with Amora at some point in the near future. Enshallah

Aziyade said:

I think --- just maybe -- we have a slight "lost in translation" moment here.

week belly dance courses & UNESCO.

Perhaps when she's saying "professional" she's not using that word the same way a native English speaker would use it, as in ready to go out and get a job -- ?

Amora, if I have misunderstood your information, then I apologize. I would suggest (and this is not to be mean or insulting) that you work with an English translator to make the wording on your website more clear.

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amoradance said:

And tell me, how many teachers you know that can make someone bellydance from level absolutley zero into dancing like they have been dancing all their lifes?

I do not know anyone, not even my mother (with all my respect to her).

I invite you to see the students commenting about me and my courses, and if you want to contact them, they are in my facebook.

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You asked Aziyade, but I'll answer for myself: none. I've never seen a student go from nothing into looking like they've been dancing all their lives in just a few weeks. If you claim you can do that, that's wonderful but it's going to take more than a few testimonials for me to believe you. Would you care to share some of the videos of your students' progress which you mentioned in your post?

There is a vid of student dancers on the website - - they look like students to me - not good enough to go pro. A lack of commitment to the moves - pleasant dancing but not all there.

I will admit that I have seen worse - but then you are starting with those with enough commitment to go to Egypt for a month.

I like the idea of written assignments and homework! That's one of the features of Amora's program that I would respond well to.

Amora, one thing you should know -- in the USA unfortunately it is not necessary for a dancer to hold any certification or license in order to dance in a restaurant. Actually, these days it is not necessary for the dancer to even know HOW to dance. A lot of restaurant owners simply want a pretty face with a cute body in a skimpy costume (and the costume doesn't have to be professional either.)

Unfortunately, in much less than 20 days, I myself could take a raw beginner and turn her into a "professional" dancer at some restaurants around here. All I would need is a beauty queen face, big boobs, a split skirt, and a coin scarf (and a lack of that isn't even a deal-breaker), and she could dance "professionally" in these places.

Also unfortunately because we have so many of that kind of thing, she would get the typical "professional" salary for women like this, which is ZERO -- since so many cute faces with split skirt will dance for free just for the "exposure" or the chance to show off.

Aziyade said:

Unfortunately, in much less than 20 days, I myself could take a raw beginner and turn her into a "professional" dancer at some restaurants around here. All I would need is a beauty queen face, big boobs, a split skirt, and a coin scarf (and a lack of that isn't even a deal-breaker), and she could dance "professionally" in these places.

Also unfortunately because we have so many of that kind of thing, she would get the typical "professional" salary for women like this, which is ZERO -- since so many cute faces with split skirt will dance for free just for the "exposure" or the chance to show off.

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And an ex-employer could take a street walker and turn her into a "dancer" in one lesson (he provided the costume which I understand he "fitted" for her) and have her dance in his restaurant.

Eliza Doolittle Syndrome, Belly Dance Version.

amoradance said:

Of course, anyone can have opinions but with foundations on knowing the teacher and her students resoults.

If you do NOT have those basics, you can NOT have truthfully an opinion, you will be just guessing from your own experiences as a student or a teacher.

In fact this it's the 2nd Forum in all the World (both in the USA), were they say that I am a "scammer", and those who afirmate such an insultive comment they DO NOT KNOW ME AT ALL !!!

Do you think that's fair?

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There are some things which are limited by a capacity to learn. Yes, a person with another dance background or experience in gymnastics or yoga may have enough understanding of their body to do moves in the time frame you claim. But you also claim that you can do this with any person - regardless of of experience and ability. Sorry - but you have to train both muscles and the brain and this takes repetition and time to consolidate the learning. This is nothing to do with opinion or guessing this is basic physiology.

But wait, there is more. You won't just teach them how to move but a thousand other things - not only do you need to shoehorn all this other learning in a tight time frame - it is done at the expense of the physical learning.

So either you are deluded - and your students don't learn everything you claim - or you are deliberately selling something you cannot deliver. The latter is by definition a "scammer".

I am not a professional dancer but I am an educator. Research indicates that you need to be exposed to the material at least 26 times over the equivalent of a 3 week period to have the maximum learning for anything. Add to that that it takes a while to establish muscle memory, I don't think you can go from very little knowledge to full dancer in a very short time and be proficient.
I know from personal experience that I only retain so much knowledge from when I take workshops, even when I write things down. I believe that the "slower" old fashioned way will produce more proficient dancers.