Beginners and cymbals

Hello,

I have heard that in the US, it was common to begin bellydance and cymbaling at the same time. (Here n Europe, the use of cymbals comes muuuuch later...)

If this is true, I would like to know how you handle this with your students...

Thank you for your answers !

Hi Mihrimah, Our (European, lol) beginners class doesn't get cymbal lessons yet, intermediate and advanced do. I've only experienced teachers who teach cymbals at a later stage and not in beginners..

I wouldn't know for other parts of the world or other countries though.

I've had only one cymbal lesson during my beginners course. My intermediate course has just started, so I don't know about that one yet.

Sagat

Dear Mihrimah,
When I was a beginner, my teacher started us with cymbals the 2nd day into the class. I am not sure there is a right or wrong way to teach them.
I usually teach basic movement, variations, a short choreography and then we learn cymbals with the choreograpjy so that the students have familiar movement territory with which to integrate their cymbals.
This is done to a Beledi style choreography since most Egyptian belly dancers don't use cymbals throughout the dance. the choreography is about 2 1/2 minutes long.

Regards,
A'isha

Mihrimah Ghaziya said:

I have heard that in the US, it was common to begin bellydance and cymbaling at the same time. (Here n Europe, the use of cymbals comes muuuuch later...)

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In my area of the USA, cymbals are very popular. The sheet we were given on our first day of level 1 has 7 zill patterns on it:

3's
3,3,7
3,7,3
3,5,5
3,5,1,3
3,1,3,1,3
1's (alternating)

We went over all of these in our first 10 week course, IIRC. We have not had any new zil patterns in level 2; but the dance steps *have* gotten more complicated.

Other schools in the area teach 4's and more complicated patterns to their level 2 students. Most teachers will drill zills with simple movement for 10-25 minutes of a hour-and-a-half class. I find it easiest when the teacher runs us through the movement/combination first, then starts the zill pattern, then has us add the movement to the zill pattern.

The head of my dance school wants all students to be able to zill over every dance step taught, before we move on to Level 3. I've been in Level 2 for a little over a year, and I'm still challenged.

I just started extra classes with another dance program, and they *introduce* zills at level 2. The Leve 1 dance teacher in this community ed program focused instead on teaching basic dance steps and choreographies, so all the students in my Level 2 class already move well. Because of the short-term performance goal, it doesn't make sense for Level 1 students to spend lots of time on a skill that won't be used in their next group performance.

Both approaches work. They each have advantages and drawbacks.

The "European" system works here as well. I got the first opportunity to learn zills in a special workshop only after my second year of dancing. The first choreography with zills was taught in my third year.

Maybe that is why I am so hopeless when it comes to joining zills with actual dancing Even estiny is against me on that - yesterday I thought that I would practice a bit and appears my zills have disappeared

But I won't give up... Signed up for a workshop in the beginning of November!

We teach in 6-week sessions and introduce cymbals on the last class of the first 6-week session. The next 6-week session focuses on singles and 3's, and by the end of THAT session, we're walking the "Basic Egyptian" thing with 3's. Future classes have the last 7-10 minutes on dancing various steps with various cymbal patterns.

It's a heck of a lot easier to learn them early on in training. And if you decide later that you don't want to play them, you can just stop practicing them.


Da Sage wrote: "The head of my dance school wants all students to be able to zill over every dance step taught,"

I LOVE this! It was something Suhaila suggested once, and I incorporated it into my practice routine. I think it's made my cymbal playing much more interesting and I feel more creative with them.

This is the way I learned dancing and zilling at the same time, starting from lesson number 2, using the same 7 patterns which you listed. When I've taught beginners, I've taught them in this way too. I think it is best for the "long view" to learn dance steps and zill patterns to go with them from the beginning. At least 10 to 15 minutes of each class should be devoted to playing while standing still, then playing while doing basic steps (nothing fancy, which would confuse beginners). The students should be encouraged to practice playing them whenever they practice outside of class. Weekly practice in class will help them build their skills just like the weekly practice of dance movements does.

I've heard too many people say, like someone else in this thread has said, that when they started the zills in the 2nd or 3rd level classes, that they've never been able to incorporate the zill playing into their dancing.

da Sage said:

In my area of the USA, cymbals are very popular. The sheet we were given on our first day of level 1 has 7 zill patterns on it:

3's
3,3,7
3,7,3
3,5,5
3,5,1,3
3,1,3,1,3
1's (alternating)

We went over all of these in our first 10 week course, IIRC. We have not had any new zil patterns in level 2; but the dance steps *have* gotten more complicated.

Other schools in the area teach 4's and more complicated patterns to their level 2 students. Most teachers will drill zills with simple movement for 10-25 minutes of a hour-and-a-half class. I find it easiest when the teacher runs us through the movement/combination first, then starts the zill pattern, then has us add the movement to the zill pattern.

The head of my dance school wants all students to be able to zill over every dance step taught, before we move on to Level 3. I've been in Level 2 for a little over a year, and I'm still challenged.

I just started extra classes with another dance school, and they *introduce* zills at level 2. This school focuses more on basic dance steps and learning choreographies, so all the students in my Level 2 class already move well. Because of the short-term performance goal, it doesn't make sense for Level 1 students to spend lots of time on a skill that won't be used in their next group performance.

Both approaches work. They each have advantages and drawbacks.

Click to expand...

I also learned cymbals starting in the first course of beginning level classes. Now that I'm teaching, I leave out veil and cymbals for my fundamentals (beginning) class (8 weeks) but start teaching both right away in my progression class. I have my students play during our ten minute warm up. I use primarily basic traveling steps. By the time they get to my Progression class they know the warm up routine well so it's a good spot to introduce playing and dancing at the same time. I also am teaching a choreography (first) and will integrate cymbals...

Hello to you all !

Thank you for your answers. I think that here in Europe, a teacher who would begin with cymbals so early would realy be an alien !
But I find it a good idea and I will try to bring this in my own classes as soon as possible...

Mihrimah Ghaziya

I start my students working on finger cymbals in level 1. Usually we start zills the 2nd or 3rd class, depending on the composition of the class (I like them to get a few basic moves under their belts before I throw the finger cymbals in).

My philosophy, as I tell it to the students, is that the sagat are an important part of the dance that they ought to learn, but they are not easy. Therefore, we might as well start those when everything else feels new and awkward anyway so that they're used to the sagat from the start. That way they start them before they have a chance to become afraid of them. I've seen dancers who were in programs that didn't start zills until the next level (say, 6 months to a year after starting.) By that time, some of the ladies were starting to feel pretty good about some of their movements and didn't want to work on cymbals because it made it hard--so they became afraid of the cymbals and started avoiding them all together because they didn't "feel good".

Also, many of the other programs in my area start zills in level 1--I share students with some of these (they take class from my school one day, the other school another, etc.) so while there will always be somethings about my school and focus that are different, I want my students to feel comfortable and prepared if they go to another school and for the other school's students to feel comfortable and familiar if they come to mine.

we start zills on the 3rd session.this allowes basic steps to gel, and the hands then added.
we never take them off, we do veil with them on.
but we do teach proper and easy ways to remove them in ending in a cane, or 9/8.(staking on stage finger, thumb, thumb, finger, so easy to put back on if needed)
longa..2/4 taught first, then 4/4..chifty, masmoudi, 9/8.even thought zills are removed for hand signals.
its part of it all, and treated as such.
z

oops, 3rd session meaning 3rd week

At our school, my teacher introduces zills in our intermediate class(after 6 mos of beginners). I can certainly see the validity of starting zills sooner than that, but this is my teacher is the boss, so what she says goes however, I do understand why we begin in the intermediate level. Many of our students want to learn bellydance without clear cut goals and vague misconceptions about what the dance and music is all about. Secondly, most of the women who attend classes work so hard to perfect even basic stance that it would be overwhelming to introduce zill patterns and music interpretation in the first few classes. So my teacher learned long ago to work on the basic movements and musical theory and once the students developed some level of confidence then zills were introduced. By the time zills are introduced, the original beginners class has been whittled down to the die hard fanatics.

I just started a new Beginner A class last night and they could barely hold their arms in basic position for longer than a minute, if I attached zills to their fingers their poor arms would fall off and hit the floor
Yasmine

I learned zils when I first learned to dance, and it seemed quite normal at the time.

But now- a true confession. I hate to dance with zils. Ah, yes, I know, I know. I hear your gasps of horror.

When I first started dancing, it was thought that if you danced without zils, it was because you couldn't play zils. Zils were expected, yea, even unto demanded, and I, as a professional, met the demand. Gave into peer pressure. Learned despite myself, and zilled away with every evidence of enjoyment and skill.

But- I hated to dance with zils, and now I don't dance with zils, and I don't teach zils. Yes, yes, I know. It is a hole in my teaching method. I send students with a love for the noisy little things to the other teacher in town who adores them and offers regular workshops. Thank goodness for this dear fellow teacher- she keeps the world safe for my ears.

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia said:

I just started a new Beginner A class last night and they could barely hold their arms in basic position for longer than a minute, if I attached zills to their fingers their poor arms would fall off and hit the floor

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LOL! ... we used veils in a class routine once and couldn't even hold up bits of chiffon for long. Zills? I'll need weight training!

I discussed the topic with some of the teachers round here, and they thought that bringing zills into beginners classes is not a good idea. They want the students to learn how to move first, and as we all know this will take a while So, adding another thing to concentrate on would make learning more difficult and slower. This approach also makes sense, doesn't it?

Shanazel, I don't think you're a horrible teacher. If you told us that you tell all your students that zills are annoying, loud and distracting, then I might consider it But you've even set them up with someone who can teach them what you don't - that is brilliant!

BTW, still haven't found my zills But did zill my heart out at the workshop with my instructor's zills. (And I mean zill my heart out - there were like 40 participants in that workshop, so we gave away free earplugs at the reception desk LOL)

maariku said:

Shanazel, I don't think you're a horrible teacher. If you told us that you tell all your students that zills are annoying, loud and distracting, then I might consider it But you've even set them up with someone who can teach them what you don't - that is brilliant!)

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Want to know something funny? On Sunday, I went by to see the other teacher and ended up sitting in on part of her zil class. Ha. I can still play the things like I never put them down. Talk about body memory.

this was good

the info was good here...i have thought about it for my classes coming up this summer--the first ones i will teach solo. I have broken the classes into 6 week increments and decided to do veil at the beginning of the 2nd six weeks and the zills in the middle. I agree---dance too long with out zills is hard to start..but too soon i think basic dance technique can suffer...

just my humble thoughts