Too much technique? What is it?

What constitutes good technique? I think "good technique" is the place where muscle memory has fully taken root and you start to really dance with the music.

I think Alosha sums it up perfectly. Without good technique you're slightly limited in how you can express yourself through this dance. My teacher doesn't focus entirely on technique, but she doesn't play it down either. She also places a lot of emphasis on the ability to improvise, and I have felt I have become better at this as my technique has improved.

I think it is just a case of not focusing SO much on technique that you forget to be expressive with it, injecting your own personality into your dance is very important.
 

Kashmir

New member
Technique to me is how you execute your moves. "Technique" in itself does not need to be good or efficient - you can have lots of technique but it might be bad or sloppy.

When I hear people say someone has "too much technique" what they usually mean is the dancer is putting their all into executing the moves rather than dancing. Often the other symptom is the dancer is showing everything they have learnt in a few minutes. What is lost is the spirit of the dance, connection with the audience, and a feel for the culture.

You can have very good (ie clean, efficient, complete) technique and still dance as a belly dancer. But it is also possible to have poor technique and actually do a very good job.
 

adiemus

New member
Good point Kashmir! It's when all the energy goes into 'look how many layers I can do' rather than 'isn't this an amazing piece of music, I'm expressing what it makes me feel' that things seem to get boring and frantic.
But there has to be some level of technique present before the whole dance gets unintelligible? I think this might be what happens in some of these fusion pieces...
 
But there has to be some level of technique present before the whole dance gets unintelligible? I think this might be what happens in some of these fusion pieces...

I think this is the case sometimes Adiemus - sometimes I watch fusion pieces and think that people have just labelled it as such so that they don't have to put any actual belly dance moves in! Don't get me wrong, I've seen some great fusion pieces, and I wouldn't call myself a "purist" by any stretch of the imagination, but surely you need to actually be able to tell (to a certain extent at least) what forms are being fused together? Otherwise it's not really belly dance fusion is it? And I think it's in instances like that that technique is really important - you need good technique for an effective fusion piece.

The interview "Anasma on belly dance fusion" on orientaldancer.net goes into this topic, I found it really interesting.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
OKay, I love all the responses. Thank you for taking the time to consider my questions.

I think personally I'm struggling with something.

I love being able to do all the fancy schmancy layers and it just THRILLS me on a personal level to hear someone say "Oh the drills on this dvd are SO hard" so I buy the dvd, work the drills and get them. It's a sense of personal accomplishment that exists separate from dance -- and it's the same motivation (for me) to be able to do 25 pushups, or be able to run 10miles, or whatever. Just personally it's kind of neat to be able to do it.

But I've spent a lot of time trying to do technical "tricks" or fancy layers and I keep thinking "when am I EVER going to use this in my dancing?" The style that I like is very Mona Said and Sohair Zaki. The music that I like is very orchestral. I keep feeling that the only way I'm ever going to be able to use any of these fancy technical things is to add them deliberately, and then they LOOK like "oh she stuck that in to show off the fact that she can do that."

I can pop and lock pretty good -- according to my teachers. But I NEVER use it. I mean like .000000000001 percent of the time.

But I keep feeling like I'm EXPECTED to do fancy stuff and break out crazy layers because it's sort of this arbitrary "end goal" I've created for myself, AND because some of the more popular performers out there are respected because of their ability to do it.

I don't know -- I'm just having a personal "dark night of the soul" I guess, and I brought it to the board. It's just confusing, trying to balance soul and technical ability (not technique actually) and figure out what I'm supposed to do with all this training I've had. :/
 

alosha

New member
save the pops and locks for a hafla performance... Set it up as a show-off routine, get some kicks out of it, then do the style you LOVE. Does that make sense?
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
I keep feeling that the only way I'm ever going to be able to use any of these fancy technical things is to add them deliberately, and then they LOOK like "oh she stuck that in to show off the fact that she can do that."

I personally don't enjoy watching dancers who throw fancy tricks into their dance just for the sake of doing fancy tricks. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I possess the capability of utilizing obfuscatory palaver; however, aforesaid bloviating and embellishment merely obscures and adumbrates the underlying intimation. Additionally this exhibition of vocabulary in all probability exasperates the unfortunate auditor.

Using lots of fancy-schmancy technique, especially layers upon layers, is like talking the way I talked in the above paragraph.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
LOL -- too funny, Shira :)

(it was YOU that started me thinking about all this, I hope you know. The blog post that launched 1000 doubts...)

I will save the crazy stuff -- maybe I'll stick my sword on my head and create a "layered buffet" for our next hafla :)
 

Kashmir

New member
I'm with Shira on this one.

On the plus side - if you have a few levels of extra capacity that you don't use then on bad days - tired, dog just died, running late and costume malfunction - you will have that extra level to call on. When the rest of us slip from 8 to 4, you can hold onto at least 7 :D
 

khanjar

New member
Technique I am not bothered about, as a beginner, remembering the movement and the name of the movement is my priority. My next priority, is being able to string the movements together into a choreography. After that, with hope some proficiency, and I may even dance public. Technique I believe comes with practice and familiarity, one develops their own style and technique and what one does in all comfort and naturality, becomes their technique, as I understand, there are no hard and fast rules as to what defines technique.

But if there were rules to technique, would the rules remove individuality and there character ?

We are'nt all the same and to me, the different dancers with different techniques is the drawing factor, for it shows individuality and life in dance.

If we all did it the same, just how boring would it be.

But thinking on technique, the word, tech referes to a technical aspect, and if everything was technically correct, then dancers would become automatons, robots if you like, dances would become robotic and dance might enter the realms of competition and the winner might be the one who is technically more correct. I see it all as a war between analogue and digital. Analogue is what I aspire to, the naturalty of movement, a sinusoidal and natural waveform. To me, the same thing in digital does not quite hit the mark, the peaks will be there along with the lows, but what is in between, the natural aspect, to digital will be lost.
 
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Aniseteph

New member
My understanding is that technique just means how you do something, and it should matter to everyone, especially beginners. Even the most basic moves can be done well or badly; a sloppily done movement with poor technique is just that, not an expression of ones' personal stylistic differences.

Yes there are different ways to do a hip drop, and you might end up preferring one over another for whatever reason, and develop your style that way, but that's just MORE technique to learn about!

I totally disagree about there being some sort of war between technique and naturalness in dancing :)confused: is that's a word?). Technique is right there underneath, generating that natural effect and without it you have nothing. You practice to make it look natural, and its being belly dance technique is what makes it look like belly dance, IMO.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Okay, I think when I said "technique" what I really meant was what we are calling "technical ability."

If technique is HOW you do it, technical ability might be how WELL you do it, I guess. That's where the "war" comes in -- technical ability versus emotional ability or emotional content.
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
I think of technique as the mechanics. It is extremely important. But balancing technique with art is the trick. Most Egyptian dancers don't look like they are thinking about technique because their dancing looks so effortless. But I think they've got this problem figured out.:clap:
 

adiemus

New member
yup - and they have that emotional connection with the music too, and that's what brings life to the mechanics.

Think of the difference between a machine-woven carpet and a handwoven carpet - the techniques are the same, but the handwoven one has those little irregularities and variations that bring life to the piece and is the difference between a 'product' and a piece of art or craft.

And there are other things that also bring life to the dance - the choice of movements, the directions, the layers, the pauses where you do nothing but breathe, the expression on the face - you can tell whether someone is faking it, at least in bellydance you can!!
 

hede

New member
I like watching So You Think You Can Dance (although no bellydancers seem to get through?!?) but anyway - they often talk about the difference between technique, musicality and expression in auditions. This bit I would understand and then in the top twenty etc they would start saying things like - 'you get to a point where you can't fake technique' - and that had me confused for a while. I thought if you are pointing your foot, turning your hip raising your leg (or whatever) in the right way surely that is right technique...?...but after a while i realised what they meant was 'you can't fake muscle memory'!

When you repetitively do the same movements over and over (correctly!) your muscles gain a memory and fluidity that can't be faked. It's like they are just meant to do it and go on automatic pilot, the movement truly takes on a different quality (which is what others have said in this thread too). So for me 'good technique' is not about how basic or fancy the move is, it's about how much it's been drilled so that it becomes part of the very fiber of the dancer.

BUT even with all this muscle memory, if there is no emotion, or poor choreography (or improv) the dance will look flat. Which is why on that show (love it or hate it) some classically technically brilliant dancers can't make it through the auditions, and others with no training (but still plenty of practice in their own thing I imagine) get through on the feel and personality of their dance.

I do wish a bellydancer would make it through, but I learn stuff from watching it anyways...the problem is of course, that in most fields (dance and otherwise) it takes about 10 years of training, education and work to become an 'expert'. So if you start ballet at say 8 then that's fine - but many many bellydancers don't start until at least our twenties, so by the time we are experts we are too old for this show! I want a So You Think You Can 'Folk' Dance, or SYTYCD over 35 :dance:

best wishes everyone
 

Daimona

Moderator
I like watching So You Think You Can Dance (although no bellydancers seem to get through?!?)
I have seen some belly dancers at the auditions, but they have not been able to show the essence of their technique and dance soul in this short amount of time and hence not convinced the jury to send them to the next level.

So just to comment hede: Perhaps if you started with extensive training in ballet at age 4, jazz and hip-hop at age 10 and belly dance at age 13, you might have a chance at SYTYCD while still in your twenties?

The question of why no belly dancers seems to get through were once asked in a class I attended. The teacher said "it is because the belly dancers who auditioned aren't really dancers" (i.e. in a classical way).

But what defines a dancer (genre not specified)?


I want a So You Think You Can 'Folk' Dance, or SYTYCD over 35 :dance:
4th. (But why have age limits anyway?)
 
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