Suhaila being Anti-Aesthetics these days with her choreography?

Yup, as owner of that choreography, I can tell you that it was not very good. I can also tell you that the girls did a wonderful job in realizing my "vision", and I am very proud of their hard work and commitment. As a student myself, I am continually growing. Just yesterday I told one of my students that "you should only be discouraged when you look back at something that you've done last year (or in this case - 4 years ago) and you do NOT see room for improvement". And yes, using this as an example, there is a LOT of room for choreographic improvement for me as an artist.

That being said however, I know where I am trying to go as an artist. And I understand where this fits in on my path. Yes, I know the SSBD format is very divisive - people either seem to love it, or hate it. I happen to be one of those who love it. Since this choreography, I have completed my L4 training, and I can now say that I understand more fully what Suhaila's vision is. Yes, at lower levels, it is very technically oriented. But the goal is to merge high dance quality from both a dance movement perspective, as well as a bellydance technical perspective. When you do that, and you dance from an emotional place - magic happens. I've seen it. Yes, there are many paths to the same goal, and I've seen countless beautiful dancers that do not have Suhaila's training, but for me, this path works, and it is a "look" that appeals to me. (ie: Nar El Ghara is absolutely *stunning* to me).

So, is this a choreography I am proud of .... ? Yes!! Because I know how much work I put in to every aspect of it. And because of pieces like this, I can now look back half a decade later and see how much I have grown. :)
 
Part 2 - addressing the subject line

So, here are my thoughts on the title of this post. I am leery to put my two cents in, because I have read countless threads like this and they never really end well. We all know the whole "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" discussion, so no need to go there, and yes, I have read the whole "you drank the kool aid" viewpoint, so no need to go there. So let me give you a little background as to who I am so you understand my viewpoint. I am a 38 year old married mother of 1 (and a half). I have a Comp Sci degree and I worked at IBM for 10 years. I studied Wing Chun Kung-Fu, (intensively) for about 7 years, and I also have a black belt in Ishin-Ryu Karate. I started studying BD because I thought it was a beautiful art and I was deeply inspired. I had a couple of early teachers who belly danced more for "fun". There was no explanation of movement, there was no historical context ... most times, we didn't even break a sweat. I was considered an "advanced dancer" in these classes in about 2 years. (I hope I hear a collective, horrified gasp from all of you out there). Because I wanted more, I started traveling to NYC to take classes with as many people as I could, often attending workshops hosted by the Sharifs. The classes were phenomenal, and the choreographies were stunning, but I couldn't figure out why it seemed like I was doing the same thing as the girl next to me, but she looked soooo much better than me. Because it was 1997, and YouTube wasn't around yet, I bought practically every video / DVD (although they were mostly videos at that time) that came out. I studied alllllll of them. In my collection (which has stopped growing some years ago), I have over 150 DVD's / videos. I "learned" from everyone - what I liked, and what I didn't like.

Then, by chance, I happened to find an old dusty video - a bootlegged copy of Suhaila's Unveiled that was given to me by a friend and was my first ever BD video. I had long since forgotten about it because at first viewing, I didn't know what I was looking at. I thought everyone was incredible let alone Suhaila! When I was able to go back and look at the video, after having some years of study, I was blown away by the beauty of what I was watching. That caused me to sign up for a weekend workshop in NJ (this was 2002 - I was the only one who showed up in a skirt for those of you that were there...) and by the end of the workshop I knew she was the teacher for me. Why is this? Because I loved the way she danced, I loved the way she broke down movement, and I loved that there was a clear process of development. Since then, I have trained primarily with Suhaila, even though we are on opposite coasts. I did all of this before there were online classes, before there were manuals, or a certification program. I did it because I really, really loved it, and I wanted to do justice to my art by working hard.

As one of the few L4 certified dancers in the field, I feel a have a unique perspective on the program and Suhaila as a teacher. There are a few points I would like to make:

1. Having been around for awhile (in the whole community, not just in the SSBD format), I feel I have the right to say that I have received a well rounded education from her school. I can hold my own on a variety of topics including, general BD history in America, music understanding, knowledge of popular singers / composers, rhythm id, some cultural context about the art in Egypt, etc. I can pick up choreographies from other instructors much faster than had I not studied with Suhaila, because I have been trained to think about BD on a dance level, not just a BD level. I can also hold my own with finger cymbals, cane, sword, veil, double veil, Jamila format, improv, chroeography and I have a basic understanding of jazz and ballet concepts. It's true that you may not like what I do, but there is no denying the dedication I have put in to my work (and fortunately for me, there are lots of people who do like what I do. :) ).

2. Training for the certification program caused me to work harder for it than anything else I have ever accomplished. (Except ChildBirth - but that is another story and that only took 9 months and 7 hours). While working towards my L4 certification, I trained a minimum of 2 hours a day, every day, for a year. Regardless of your feelings about how things "look" there should be a polite round of applause for a format that is driving dancers in this way. Aren't you tired of people belittling what we do? Don't you want everyone of us to pursue our art with ruthlessness? I sure do...

3. As part of L4 it is required that you study with X # of teachers not associated with the school for X number of hours. I have heard Suhaila speak highly of some of the teachers I have chosen to train with, and I do not feel that she tries to discourage me from doing so.

4. With regards to the whole "doing too much technique" discussion... I understand. When I was working on choreographing my L4 personal piece (La Campagnella by Paganini) I mistakingly assumed it was supposed to have all L4 technique in it, all the time, no commercial breaks. As a result, my choreography did not have "life" in it, so Suhaila made me do it again. With her direction, I changed my approach, and danced at whatever level I wanted, whenever I wanted, including sometimes doing nothing more than dance movement with no technique whatsoever. Through the positive feedback from Suhaila and my colleagues, I realized that it is not, in fact, about showing off your technique, but dancing in such a complete way that the technique happens naturally. But you have to be so strong in your technique that you can get to this place. That begin said, we go back to the "beauty in the eye of the beholder discussion" because if you don't think Suhaila danced beautifully in the Nar el Ghara video that was posted, than there is no changing your mind. And that of course, is ok! :)

5. As you have seen from her repertoire, Suhaila is not interested in "dancing Egyptian", so it would be unfair of you to hold her by that standard. She has always encouraged us to be well educated and well trained, and then try to cultivate our own expression though that. I have been to numerous L3 workshops were I have seen her work with dancers that range through the stylization gamut. And each personal choreography of the attendee finishes still feeling "personal". (At least, that is my perspective not having spoken in private to everyone attending).

6. Suhaila has never EVER let me say "I can't do it". No matter how hard I cry.

In closing, I would like to say that I generally try to stay out of these discussions. But since you used my video and this thread has been viewed thousands of times (ugh!), I felt I had to speak up. I think it is ok that people don't like what she does. Some people don't like tribal, ATS, Cabaret, etc. I do think she is a great teacher, and I don't think you can really judge the quality of her students for another 10 years... because it will take that long for most dancers to have the process "click". Myself included.

I hope that as a community we can put aside our personal preferences for what is pleasing to our eye, and at the minimum, celebrate a teacher who demands more from her students. Yes, there are others out there, but not so many that we can afford to be exclusionary.

Okay, I hope this came across respectfully, which is how I intended it. I have to go refill my cup now. I think I'll try Cherry flavor this time... >;-)
 
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Yshka

New member
Dear AngeliqueHanesworth,

I must admit I didn't like the choreo in the video much either, but that is my opinion, and nobody here was disrespectful in expressing theirs. Nobody has said anything about your artistic dedication or the work put into it as far as I can see, and I cannot see that anyone was disrespectful to you or your work.

I am always amazed that when people put a video online, or place themselves out there in public wether it is through video or a live show, they act completely surprised and upset if they receive criticism. This is a discussion forum and we are here to discuss anything about this dance from videos to music to costumes. When you put a video out onto the internet, or perform in public, people are entitled to criticise and may do so.

Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, meaning people are just as well allowed to have a different opinion. If one cannot deal with any opinion that doesn't match their own, they should not put their material out to the public.

I apologise if this sounds harsh, but I'm tired of reading endless 'defense stories' when somebody expresses a negative opinion.:think:
 
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Yshka -
This is the perils of internet debate. I thought my post was actually open and humble, and I did not feel defensive in my response, but I did feel an explanation was warranted. I think there are two topics of discussion here (which is why I broke them up):

1. My video that was posted. I've been around the block long enough to expect and not be hurt by criticism. I thought I expressed that actually quite well.

2. Suhaila as a teacher and her vision as I understand it. I have a perspective some might not have just watching her videos or doing the online classes, so that is why I detailed the work we are required to do.

I am confused on why you thought I was bashing the rest of the group as disrespectful. Maybe the last line of my second post? There was no double meaning there. I meant it only as a representation of how I hoped my post to be read as things can get ugly quickly in these types of internet debates. I truly do not want that.

So no. No hurt feelings here and that was not the intention of any of my posts. I can handle the criticism, but I did feel the need to offer a point of view since really... I deserve it, don't ya think? :)
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
5. As you have seen from her repertoire, Suhaila is not interested in "dancing Egyptian", so it would be unfair of you to hold her by that standard. She has always encouraged us to be well educated and well trained, and then try to cultivate our own expression though that. I have been to numerous L3 workshops were I have seen her work with dancers that range through the stylization gamut.

I agree with a lot of your post, and I include her drills and training in my regular practice.

However, I think we are allowed to hold her to the Egyptian standard when she herself has said that Egyptian "style" is not a separate technique, but simply a "stylization."

Some of the older posters on OD will remember a time (not too long ago) when it was alleged that Suhaila did actually present herself as an Egyptian-technique instructor. I have the old ads in Arabesque that say just that, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she, along with a lot of American dancers in the 80s, didn't have experience with real Egyptian style/technique and wasn't sure exactly what that entailed.

I think Suhaila is alone in believing that Egyptian dancers simply have a different "stylization" than American or Lebanese dancers. She is free to have that opinion, of course, but I don't think it accurately represents how Egyptian dancers actually move and communicate the music. It certainly doesn't represent how the Egyptian instructors I've studied with feel about their art form.

Whether she "dances Egyptian" or not, I think it is a little disingenuous to attempt to distinguish Egyptian dance from American as simply a difference in "stylization." This is my main issue with the program. Although I value what I have learned from the certification process, I feel a lot of it is counter-productive to what I am trying to accomplish as an Egyptian-style, Egyptian-technique-based dancer.

Fortunately there are other programs available, with standards that are just as rigorous, for the more Egyptian-focused dancer. I admire and respect ANY dancer for finding a training program and committing to it as fully as Yasmina's, Hadia's, Raqia's and Suhaila's students do. !!
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
When I was working on choreographing my L4 personal piece (La Campagnella by Paganini)

Angie, I love this piano piece, but I'm very curious -- why choose this song for belly dance? PLEASE understand I'm not picking on you -- I just really want to understand why you would spend so much time and effort creating a bellydance choreography to a western song?

This is yet another thing I do not understand about the program. I had a friend quit the cert. program because she felt the focus was too heavily focused on western music. (Apparently she was supposed to study and dance to Miles Davis -- at least that was what she told me. She said if she wanted to dance to jazz she would have been a jazz dancer.)

I've learned so much about Arabic music from Simon Shaheen and Sami Abu Shumays and George Sawa, that I can't even imagine a time when I would be bored of Arab music enough to want to dance to Western music. And I haven't even explored Persian or Turkic/Asiatic or North African music yet! Dr. Sawa has said that the dance grows out of the music, and from what I've studied, I can certainly see that. Again, that's just my experience, but I remain curious why Middle eastern music isn't more heavily encouraged?
 
Hey Aziyade -
Whoops! In all that I wrote, I forgot to mention that for L4, each year she has a category of music that we need to choreograph to. Ours was classical and as you mentioned, this year is Miles Davis. We had to submit 3 musical pieces and she picked one. The L4 test was divided up into 3 parts:

1: Improv to a Live Arabic band
2: Performance of all the L2/3/4 choreo's (which you've seen before)
3. Personal choreo to the genre for that year.

Since we were already doing more "traditional" type stuff in 1 and 2, she wanted to force us into a choreographic area where we could NOT say "this sounds like a hip drop" or "this sounds like a shimmy". She did not want us to go to our default dance place. This was very traumatizing for all of us, and very difficult to do (it took each of us months to choreograph), but it yielded very interesting, creative, and original results.

When we asked her about this, she made the point that there is a lot of "fusion" going on in BD these days, but a lot of people don't know what they are fusing with. I think her point was that when you get to L4, you have a strong enough dance movement background that you really can do fusion well, and she wanted us to showcase it. Also, it really did stretch us from a choreographic perspective in a way that you would not get if you were putting something together for, say, a wedding or trying to authentically represent a certain lineage.

I think this was along the lines of ballet being done to rock and roll, hip hop being done to blues, etc.

But yes, it is understandable how this would certainly not be for everyone.

Also - just as one more side note - to test for L4 you have to submit a 2 hour video collection of your choreo / improv work. Most people dance in their respective genres for this, so if classical BD is your thing, you do spend a lot of time there. And then she makes you submit another 2-ish hours after that, so there really is a lot of work done in that realm.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Thanks!! That helps me put it into perspective :) I hope someday you post your video online -- I'd be really interested in seeing it. I know Kaeshi Chai has done some really interesting fusion dances with classical music, and on Karim Nagi's newest CD he has a couple of classical-sampled songs that could inspire a different kind of fusion.

Sounds fun!
 

Maria_Aya

New member
Very interesting thread in general.
With some agree with some not, general Suhaila's work is not something I admire, but the WAY she work her business is admirable
In this bellydance world she is a strong woman (i guess comes from her mom) ;)
 

maria_harlequin

New member
Hey AngeliqueHansworth!

Please understand that I posted the video NOT to bash Suhaila or her style! And I'm sorry if I offended. My teacher is a Suhaila student and most of what we do in class is focused on using her techniques and drills. I have the Suhaila drills to thank for my crisp, sharp isolations and layers. My problem is that her recent development in what she's presenting to the dance world in terms of choreography just plain confuses me - all I see are modern dance and jazz mixed with some isolation that to the eye of a trained jazz or contemporary dancer can look comical (please don't take this the wrong way...the first time I showed a recent Suhaila choreography to a jazz/ballet teacher she looked at me and said "What the heck is this?" She couldn't see where the belly dancing was - it looked like bad modern dance to her). I know what she's performing might not be what she's teaching but if she's showcasing it that way well...I think it can be a bit of a problem if she wants to tap into getting new students and it can also make loyal ones stray...I used to be a big fan of her but with the recent choreographies and her approach to technique that includes confusing shapes and name of muscles well...I'm not a big of a fan as I was.

Choreography I'm talking about that really, really, made me think:



I appreciate her technique and the way that she teaches which can appeal to the more right-brained side of our community but her style of dancing and certain aspects of her teaching is just not my cup of tea anymore.

Peace! :)
 
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Ranya

New member
Ok this is no relation to Suhaila as a person or to her bellydance technique as such, just to the particular video that Maria posted - it looks pretty much like "the bellydancer who always wished to be a Broadway jazz dancer..".
 

Darshiva

Moderator
Maria, are you sure that's bellydance? I'm not seeing anything anywhere on the vid claiming it is, except perhaps the tag for 'suhaila'.

To be honest, that choreo about as far removed from bellydance as anything I've ever seen. It looks like modern dance to my uneducated eye.
 
Riiiiight..... No, I get your point. And I'm not really in a position to defend Suhaila's choices for what she puts on the Rakkasah stage, but I will offer up these points:

1. Suhaila is a consummate business woman, and this was Rakkasah West. Not having been to a Rakkasah West (I only go to East), but based off what I see on YouTube, it seems that most of the performances are tribal/fusion and there is very little traditional bellydance. So for that venue, I think she feels the freedom to break out of the traditional mold and try to really do something new. You can certainly say you have never seen a performance like that before, and I bet most people watched the clip through to the end. And guess what - we are talking about it! ("There is no bad publicity"). In a world were so much "fusion" happens, what I really see is a lot of copying of the bellydancer de jour. So I think what she was trying to do is kinda shake people from the monotony of hours and hours of the same-ish bellydance performances. So... just remember the setting, and having worked at Rakkasah before, I can tell you that my eyes are glazed and I can't really speak in full sentences by the end of the weekend. :lol:

2. Suhaila has rehearsal every week for a couple hours. Regardless of whether or not there is an upcoming performance. These girls have about 20 choreographies they have to learn (I'm not kidding). Most of them are traditional, so they really do spend time in that space.

3. Most of the girls you see on that stage have been dancing for 2/3-ish years, never having had another dance class in their life. Think about the average new student that walks into a class, and think whether or not they would be able to learn the choreographies that have been posted in this thread, because the girls in her dance company have to do it all. And like any dance company in any other art form, you don't get a choice about which choreographies you learn. You just learn them all and the director tells you what to do for which performance.

4. This was a Damien Marely song, so I know Suhaila would say that traditional belly dance would be inappropriate. I learned some of this choreo and it was very hard. I believe she said there was supposed to be technique on top of it, but no one was at a level yet where they could do it. I also know that when she choreographs, she does not choreograph for her students. She imagines she has dancers that know no limitations, and then she will modify her vision to suite her dance company at the time (which is always in flux). I'm sure she was very proud of her girls, but I'm also sure that as is, this is not something she would put on stage and charge people money for seeing. (She often talks about the difference between the quality of work that is acceptable for a hafla (for example) as opposed to a paid performance).

5. Suhaila has said that through the course of her life, she has created over 300 choreographies. I think it is really natural to jump waaaay out of the box after that much work.

But please remember, this is just my interpretation of what is going on. I could be wrong here. Also, I am not offended by anyones opinions expressed here. I can totally see how this could not be someone's cup of tea, especially for dancers who have not been privy to her body of work and / or really just want that traditional belly dancer "look".
 

maria_harlequin

New member
Maria, are you sure that's bellydance? I'm not seeing anything anywhere on the vid claiming it is, except perhaps the tag for 'suhaila'.

To be honest, that choreo about as far removed from bellydance as anything I've ever seen. It looks like modern dance to my uneducated eye.

No, it's not labeled as such but most of the other vids aren't either but it was performed at a belly dance festival and I know she's not labeling it as traditional or even fusion belly dance either but I question why she would even make a choreography like that for a venue such as Rakkasah where the audience is there to watch belly dance and other such fusions - not modern dance. The other choreographies she presented at that show were more belly dance-esque in nature than that clip but most of it was so jazzy...
 

maria_harlequin

New member
1. Suhaila is a consummate business woman, and this was Rakkasah West. Not having been to a Rakkasah West (I only go to East), but based off what I see on YouTube, it seems that most of the performances are tribal/fusion and there is very little traditional bellydance. So for that venue, I think she feels the freedom to break out of the traditional mold and try to really do something new. You can certainly say you have never seen a performance like that before, and I bet most people watched the clip through to the end. And guess what - we are talking about it! ("There is no bad publicity"). In a world were so much "fusion" happens, what I really see is a lot of copying of the bellydancer de jour. So I think what she was trying to do is kinda shake people from the monotony of hours and hours of the same-ish bellydance performances. So... just remember the setting, and having worked at Rakkasah before, I can tell you that my eyes are glazed and I can't really speak in full sentences by the end of the weekend. :lol:

Just my opinion but I don't necessarily think that if people are bored, doing something completely different than what people intended to watch is going to shake things up - more like confuse them! And I do believe in bad publicity! We may be talking about it but that's it...I don't think anyone is going to join her class because of that routine.

2. Suhaila has rehearsal every week for a couple hours. Regardless of whether or not there is an upcoming performance. These girls have about 20 choreographies they have to learn (I'm not kidding). Most of them are traditional, so they really do spend time in that space.

I haven't seen that many traditional Suhaila choreographies...can you link me to them? I have learned one to Ali Gara and watched my teacher perform a drum solo but the only traditional thing about it in my opinion is the music! It's all very Suhaila-esque to me but I'd love to see more.

3. Most of the girls you see on that stage have been dancing for 2/3-ish years, never having had another dance class in their life. Think about the average new student that walks into a class, and think whether or not they would be able to learn the choreographies that have been posted in this thread, because the girls in her dance company have to do it all. And like any dance company in any other art form, you don't get a choice about which choreographies you learn. You just learn them all and the director tells you what to do for which performance.

Oh, I know that no average new student would be able to learn Suhaila's choreographies. I've struggled through one or two myself and find them very challenging. And I no that in a dance company, you just do what the director tells you to! I belong to one :)

4. This was a Damien Marely song, so I know Suhaila would say that traditional belly dance would be inappropriate. I learned some of this choreo and it was very hard. I believe she said there was supposed to be technique on top of it, but no one was at a level yet where they could do it. I also know that when she choreographs, she does not choreograph for her students. She imagines she has dancers that know no limitations, and then she will modify her vision to suite her dance company at the time (which is always in flux). I'm sure she was very proud of her girls, but I'm also sure that as is, this is not something she would put on stage and charge people money for seeing. (She often talks about the difference between the quality of work that is acceptable for a hafla (for example) as opposed to a paid performance).

Well you definitely can't do anything traditional to that song because it's not Middle Eastern music! THAT I totally agree with you. Even if you did a whole combination with saidi hops, hip drops, and a shimmy it wouldn't even have a touch of the traditional in it.

I think that's amazing that she has a vision where she choreographs something without thinking about whether her dance company could do it or not - I had a band director that was like that and it really helped up grow.

5. Suhaila has said that through the course of her life, she has created over 300 choreographies. I think it is really natural to jump waaaay out of the box after that much work.

My problem with that is that other dancers and choreographers don't seem to have the need to jump out of the box after creating countless choreographies.

But please remember, this is just my interpretation of what is going on. I could be wrong here. Also, I am not offended by anyones opinions expressed here. I can totally see how this could not be someone's cup of tea, especially for dancers who have not been privy to her body of work and / or really just want that traditional belly dancer "look".

It's not my cup of tea because to me because in my opinion, she's lost most of the aesthetic values that I enjoy seeing in dance - not just belly dance but also in tribal fusion, ATS, the such...it's all so technique focused in lieu of connecting with the music (I have nothing against super duper technique...but it should never get in the way of other things) and westernized that...well...it doesn't touch my soul the way my other favorite dancers do.
 

PracticalDancer

New member
I, too, am going to have to be very careful how I speak to this, because I have a Good Friend ("GF") who I dance with regularly and who is also a loyal Suhaila student.

When I talk with GF about why she goes to such lengths to study with Suhaila, why so many of her solos are Suhaila numbers, and her overall dance influences, she keeps stating that Suhaila (and her mother) are geniuses. GF raves about the techniques, and embodies them in her dance. One thing GF has in common with those here who profess admiration for Suhaila is athleticism. GF is VERY athletic. Side note -- I find it interesting to see Suhaila perform these numbers, b/c I have seen GF perform them to the letter: hair fluffs, wrist flourishes, and all. Things that I thought were GF's "dance mannerisms" are really, it turns out, Suhaila's. :think:

So, as I think about why GF likes this style . . . and, I have to say with a heavy heart, why I do not (ducks for flying objects) is that it is NOT that Suhaila is "anti-aesthetics." Rather, I believe she may just be tuning into a different aesthetic, one that focuses on a love of precision and ability. I have never heard a Suhaila student refer to the material as "easy" -- have you? The mere concept of "leveling" in coursework indicates an appreciation of advancing in complexity, differentiating in skill, and therefore, narrowing the field. This penchant for precision may cause her students to copy to the extreme, down the the mannerism that would normally be attributable only to the individual dancer her/himself.

Those who know me well know that I am extremely analytical and ask numerous technical questions of my instructors as I study. They know that I have to understand the movement at a high level of detail in order to master it. But, when I perform, they know that I am all about the moment and the interaction with my audience. Therefore, they may wonder why I do not subscribe to Suhaila's approach -- if I appreciate technique, I should want a teacher that drills into it, right? Sadly, not necessarily. Rather, for me the aesthetic is the emotional quality of the performance -- can the audience feel how the dancer feels up there? For me, that is my challenge because it is so contrary to how I study.

It is not that one approach contains an aesthetic appreciation and the other does not -- it is that they appreciate different aesthetic aspects: precision of complex motion in comparison to expression of emotional feeling. Movement or Moment?

As my grandmother used to say, "to each his own (said the old lady as she kissed the cow)."

Highest regards,

Anala
 

MissVega

New member
.....I’m surprised no one has noticed/mentioned that she is using reggae/dancehall yet the dance is pretty much lacking in any reggae or dancehall dance. I also have to question if she can understand the lyrics or bothered to look them up... because the open legged/bouncing chest shimmy at 2:39 happened just as he sang “Can’t go release your sperms in war”................*facepalm*... lol awkward....

Honestly, I’m ALL for creative and stepping out of the box in dance, taking chances, trying something new etc. Hell that is what it is all about... BUT what you take to stage, especially at a venue like Rakkasah where people ARE paying to get in and watch DOES matter. This should NOT have gone to a stage in my opinion. Student recital? Sure, fine. Hafla... I suppose although even at a hafla I wouldn’t be able to wipe the “WTF?” expression off of my face.

Yah great she didn’t want to use a traditional bellydance song, so no traditional movement. But she completely didn’t seem to care that she used a Caribbean song and danced without any Caribbean movement really. I think there was a half-assed attempt at Willy bounce somewhere in there. I would say 95% percent of that performance they were behind the beat. If she was trying to match her choreography to the lyrics (which it did seem like at parts) but overall it didn’t make much sense to me. The only reason I watched the whole clip was I was waiting to see when the dancehall/reggae dancing would come in.......even just a hint of it to come in. There is a lot of talk in bellydance about not misrepresenting the culture or dance... but other cultures and their dances and music matter as well.

I would like to see that if she wants to use that music, she at least bothers to properly learn a Caribbean move or two, or at least if she isn’t going to use any Caribbean movement, at least stay on the beat. I didn’t see any super technique in that video/performance, nor did I see a connection to the music so what was the point? Was I entertained? No.

There was NO reggae or dancehall technique in that. Did she say it was reggae or dancehall? No, she didn’t. But By using that music she did associate herself with it, so most audiences familiar with that genre of music and dance would expect to see some. Now I will be the first to admit that dancehall is pretty open to new movement/interpretations and fusion with other dance genres, so long as the dancer/dancers are on the beat and with the music. That was not happening here.

A good example of reggae/dancehall technique/musicality : The blonde girl who comes in at 1:14... she is AWESOME!
YouTube - Only top dance battle - Dancehall final!

And in case anyone is curious, the lyrics to the song she used, Confrontation.
DAMIAN MARLEY LYRICS - Confrontation
 
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maria_harlequin

New member
Awesome post Anala. I guess when I was talking about aesthetics, I was being pretty limited by what I meant by aesthetics and that would be the conventional view of things being beautiful in the pre-modern art era kind of way...if that makes sense! :lol: Yes, precision and ability is what she's aiming for in terms of her own version of aesthetics but that doesn't translate visually to me because while I know it's hard (as I said before...I've been taught by a Suhaila student for years) I believe that most of it doesn't look like it is to the untrained eye and it's not...well...I'm lost for words. It's just not as visually appealing. This is one of the reasons why my teacher's Suhaila drum solo that she performed last year was received rather poorly by the GP and dancers that weren't familiar with Suhaila's style.
 

maria_harlequin

New member
Very informative MissVega!! What would we do without you on this forum? I'm blown away by what you wrote! Oh man......awkward......“Can’t go release your sperms in war”.....awkward...
 
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