Rates

[ImmanMussa]

I want to spread awarness of rates in UK

I dont know about other cities, but I really feel quality and talent should not be treated cheaply.

Restaurants
Events of any type etc....

Its becoming really painful to see Restaurants wanting dancers for less than £60 a night excluding trasport.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Hi Imman,

It is one of the oldest problems we have faced as dancers and it has been discussed many times before. It is well worth discussing again of course.

I started dancing in restaurants 15 years ago and I was paid 60.00 back then!!! I cant believe that is still the going rate 15 years on!

 

[Lydia]

Hi Imman...ofcourse i dont perform in europe so i can not talk about that...but when i came to Dubai i made very little money i just came from Cairo so i was used to it that a dancer that was still unknown got a small salaris...and i did not know that much yet anyway ...i dont know how i ever got a job in Cairo lol.....but anyway.....In Dubai i have set a price 25 years ago that is still used now for most dancers if they can live up to the standard that is needed....there are many dancers that are performing for less but they are just not ready enough yet for the big jobs...so they have to ,,grow,, and they will get there....but for me i never put my fee down,and people never tell me ,,o that is to much,,, they know what is the differance between dancers and dancers ...the big problem is when dancers starting cutting eachother prices ...but if all the dancers stick together it would be fine...so keep the price and the stadard up,from my experiance its working

 

[ImmanMussa]

My rates are really high and I have decided to stick with it, if they cant afford me then its their choice, I can still survive with my pride held high..

I recieved a phone call yesterday from a guy saying he got my number from a dancer, and he asked me to attend a party he organised for £50..My manager was like thats a rate we charge for charity events lol!!!

He was begging as I was his last chance because a dancer who was dancing for that rate had other event to attend last minute cxl :shok:

I think its disgraceful as some dancers dance for free, aparantly to advertise their services!!

How much is the rates in your area Caroline normaly?

Lydia what are your rates in UAE?

 

[Kharis]

I want to spread awarness of rates in UK

I dont know about other cities, but I really feel quality and talent should not be treated cheaply.

Restaurants
Events of any type etc....

Its becoming really painful to see Restaurants wanting dancers for less than £60 a night excluding trasport and no thought whats so ever for the quality and how a good dancer should be like..

The passion, art, hours, training and other things that come with it to be professional Dancer is all being flashed with cheap rates they get from other sources.

Please guys give me your thoughts and openions on this and how to stop this?

Anything is welcome.

I worked in restaurants for 13 years. I started out at 50 and ended it at 80 an increase that was not particularly huge... and I do feel that dancers in the UK still get a raw deal. The problem is that most seem grateful to get a fee at all.... never mind a decent one. I don't dance in restaurants any more, not unless its a private event, and though I do still do occasional corporate events and larger parties, my fee is now 3 figures. Surprising as it may sound, I do get that kind of money. I just got to the point where my mentality was...this is my fee, take it, or leave it. It works for me. A dancer is only worth what she feels she's worth... not what others' think she's worth. I'm worth that 3 figure fee, and if I don't believe that, no bugger else will. If someone doesn't want to pay that fee, I'm not bothered about that either. It's a little like the Laws of Manifestation... believe in something enough, and it's yours.

 

[Daimona]

He was begging as I was his last chance because a dancer who was dancing for that rate had other event to attend last minute cxl :shok:

Ah.. He might have been desperate, but to me this seems like a classical example of pressing your price down...

Give him your price. He will take it or leave it. If he doesn’t accept your rates and think they are too high, he’ll probably find someone else or make it without a dancer at all. If he really is desperate, he’ll accept your rates.

Low rates also occur in other countries. I was shocked the first time I heard about the low rates usually paid at restaurants (some years ago, though) in Oslo where some of the top dancers in Norway live and work. No wonder why most of them have stopped working in restaurants.

 

[tiphareth]

He was begging as I was his last chance because a dancer who was dancing for that rate had other event to attend last minute cxl :shok:

Sounds to me like he needs a quick lesson in the laws of supply and demand. If he's that desperate he should be willing to pay more than the going rate, and only pay less if the dancer is desperate for work.

 

[lizaj]

Hi Imman
Glad you started this. Anna Bisco who is the co-ordinator of our dance association NADA has written an item for our next mag on rates and I hope this will lead to dancers who perform thinking about their worth. I am sure than many young or new dancers who are keen to platform themselves ( and who are not trying to earn a living dancing) accept far less than they are worth or than most savvy dancers throughout the country would be prepared to tolerate. I think many do this in all innocence and some even seem to think employers are doing them a favour by hiring them . I know dancers who have danced for free, for £25 and cleared tables at a Greek retaurant and stayed all night (although this was some years agao) Her attitude was ...well they treat me like one of the family and I love what I'm doing. In contrast a friend who works with an agency gets a very good rate for 20 mins and is earning a very nice wad in new Years Eve..which is usually 3X the going rate whatever job you do.
It is a matter of spreading the word and also employers realise they will get a professional performer in attitude, effort, costuming, preparation and presentaion etc when s/he is paid a professional rate.

 

[Tracey]

supply demand and the quest for fame

you may be surprised by the title , but all these things and lets not forget the ongoing struggle it is for most independents out there!!


My advice is to aim high but with an eye to repeat custom , as a one off hit is great but the long term contract or relationship will always prove more profitable.

every charity , corporate or large event is struggling to find sponsorship , every small independent I know has found the last two years hard going .

So what do you do ? with an ear to the ground an eye to the future and always in equal measure : what am I worth : how much do I want to do this gig: will it be fun and a huge creative bath of dance: will it promote me: will I learn anything:

with 8 dancers all out this New Years Eve for me that's eight great fab and loyal dancers all earning a good sum , yes it could be better but next year we hope will be better, there are a plethora of agencies out there now so competion is rising . With competiton comes competative pricing , have dealt with this all my self employed life as both dancer and photographer . Its there it wont go away but as I tell all my dancers, there's always another gig

Tracey dancer teacher agent lover of dance

 

[~Diana~]

wow and here I thought charging $150 for a 15-20 minute performance was a lot here.

 

[Lydia]

Hi Imman...i do not like to say realy how much is my fee ,but i will write what is going in the uae...

daily jobs in the restaurants 5 stars between 150 us dollar and 275 us dollars if the contarct is dayli...

in the 3 and 4 star hotels usely dancers work for 3000 us dollar a month

for private party,s that is 1 nighter,s...a good dancer can ask for 600 till 2500 us dollar per show

if she is a known dancer the price can dubble....like in newyears eve and eid holiday,s..aswell

then there is the shows for tourist company,s regular touristcompany again around 2500 us dollar per month

then the tourist company,s have ,,insentives,, for those funcions they book better dancers and pay again 600 dollar to 1000 dollar per show

then there are VIP FUNCTION,S those pay again between 2500 dollar and perhaps the dubble......for the evening perhaps 3 shows.....
a proff dancer her show must not be shorter then 50 minutes......

if she is a new dancer 20 minutes will be ok.......

 

[Emma_Williams]

I was having this discussion with my husband the other day who went to a restaurant in Liverpool and said he saw a belly dancer. He said she quite clearly obviously wasnt an actual belly dancer as he has come to know quite a few moves on the quiet by my endless pestering him to watch this youtube clip or that youtube clip and a girl they was with enquired and she smiled and said she was self taught. My husband said her costume was very fancy dressish and she was beautiful and seemed to throw a few shakiraesque moves around the floor.

If regular girls with a pretty costume from ebay and the hair extensions, toned stomach and beautiful figure can shake their bums a bit and do the belly roll (my sister can and she has no dance lessons ever) then they can decieve and look like the final polished product. They probably charge a lot less than trained pro dancers. I know in London a girl on my facebook who i went to school with has never had a belly dance lesson in her life or even owns a belly dance dvd (she told me) and yet she works in a greek restaurant - looking at her pics she is stunning and you would think she is a pro. She laughs about it and to be fair she could always dance at school so can shimmy a bit but she fools them and earns 50 quid a night and does it 3 or 4 nights a week and earns 250 a week for a few nights work. I earn just over that for a full weeks work so good luck to them I say!

 

[Sarahamh]

If regular girls with a pretty costume from ebay and the hair extensions, toned stomach and beautiful figure can shake their bums a bit and do the belly roll (my sister can and she has no dance lessons ever) then they can decieve and look like the final polished product.

No, I totally 100% disagree. I still believe that most people can tell the difference between a belly bunny and a trained professional dancer. Its about more than the costuming, you can tell a dancer from how she stands, how she moves and holds her arms, how she engages with the audience even before you consider technique. In fact, I was at a university 'talent' show 2 weeks ago, there were a group of beginner salsa dancers performing who were enjoying themselves, but clearly not pro level. When the professional dancers (unannounced as pros) came on stage and got into position I heard gasps from audience members (not dancers, general public) - it was THAT obvious from their posture alone that these were the guys they were paying to see.

As a professional working dancer I cannot say, well if they are making a bit of money, good luck to them. Its a disgrace, and it lowers rates, expectations and conditions for the rest of us.

 

[Kharis]

As a professional working dancer I cannot say, well if they are making a bit of money, good luck to them. Its a disgrace, and it lowers rates, expectations and conditions for the rest of us.

I take my hat off to anyone enterprising, or lucky enough, to make that much dosh out of very little talent. Like you say, most folks do know and recognise the difference between an untrained 'belly bunny' and a professional dancer. Hence, more fool them if they are prepared to pay to watch them. But unfortunately, That's life. And in restaurants, a dancer always comes second fiddle to the food. If she didn't...then belly bunnies would not be hired.

 

[Sarahamh]

I take my hat off to anyone enterprising, or lucky enough, to make that much dosh out of very little talent. Like you say, most folks do know and recognise the difference between an untrained 'belly bunny' and a professional dancer. Hence, more fool them if they are prepared to pay to watch them. But unfortunately, That's life. And in restaurants, a dancer always comes second fiddle to the food. If she didn't...then belly bunnies would not be hired.

Kharis, I agree that all too often restaurant owners don't care too much about the quality of the dancer (though I am lucky that in my regular gig the owner DOES), but sadly people often don't realise what the quality of the dancer is before they go to see them. Not unreasonably, if diners choose a restaurant so they can go see a bellydancer, they expect that the dancer will be a professional. If the dancer is not, people think that that is the standard required to perform bellydance in public, this reinforcing the idea that its not a 'real' skilled dance form. Aside from the undercutting, this is what bugs me about unskilled dancers performing in public.

 

[lizaj]

As long as the bellybunny is NOT undercutting and she is keeping the rates high, she is less of a problem. More dangerous is the desperate ill informed lone dancer with some dancnng under her belt who will accept a plate of pasta just to get her cozzzy on and be able to say she is a restaurant dancer and therefore a "pro". Calling yourself a "pro" comes with many responsibilites not least to fellow dancers to make sure you are all properly remunerated and treated.
The sober diner /non"expert" may know a talented dancer from one who just looks good in a costume or they may not.
I woud imagne that what is paramount for a restauranteur is that she looks good in her costume and has entertainment value. Of course some restauranters do know the value of talent and demand it but being a good dancer and being a good restaurant dancer I'm pretty sure has 2 different elements.

 

[Kharis]

Kharis, I agree that all too often restaurant owners don't care too much about the quality of the dancer (though I am lucky that in my regular gig the owner DOES), but sadly people often don't realise what the quality of the dancer is before they go to see them. Not unreasonably, if diners choose a restaurant so they can go see a bellydancer, they expect that the dancer will be a professional. If the dancer is not, people think that that is the standard required to perform bellydance in public, this reinforcing the idea that its not a 'real' skilled dance form. Aside from the undercutting, this is what bugs me about unskilled dancers performing in public.

Absolutely agree. I remember, long before I started dancing, I saw a dancer in a restaurant and thought she was ok. Then I went to Turkey and saw a fantastic dancer, and then went to Turkey again and saw a bad dancer. I feel that most folks who go to such restaurants, particularly if they go to see a dancer as part of that experience, will eventually realise that the Belly Bunnies of this world are really not that good, and certainly don't represent the dance in it's entirety.

Let's face it, we've all had a bad curry from time to time, but that doesn't mean all curries are crap. Our intelligence tells us that there is better out there. I know the GP are collectively daft at times, but they're not that daft.

And there's that saying...'You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.'

 

[Tracey]

and

Tory candidate Norsheen Bhatti is £260-an-hour belly dancer | Mail Online




uhmmmmmm

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Thats what I thought... she was good on 'Come Dine With Me' but she didnt dance..the dancer on that which she hired was terrible, sorry.

 

[Tracey]

in the UK

One major major factor to keep in mind with the UK pricing is that a lot of dancers , not all I must stress but a lot. Do not declare the income they earn whilst dancing in say a restaurant . The ongoing black market cash economy way of working will always keep prices low,the lure of cash in hand is a false one. If we encourage this the owners will always wave their wads and dancers will go for it.


And on a more serious note Mr Tax will find you , especially if you are mistress web, mistress PR and the rest, one dancer here in the Northwest discovered this for herself a few years back.

You earn it you declare it !
All my dancers are instructed to do just this .
And think of all those sequins you can offset to the bill