Are Male Dancers welcome in Tribal?

lizaj

New member
I got a reply from Carolena Nericcio



It seems it's the female dancers who attend the classes that want a female only space, which is something I support. I was just afraid they had this regard for the dance style itself. But Carolena's email reply helps put me at ease. Even if she has some contradicting thoughts, which I'm sure is not the case and I don't mean to imply there may be by speculating, her reply is like a confirmation. She simply said it's perfectly fine. I would think that would make my further efforts legitimate.


I'm not sure if she could actually do that in the UK. There are ways to have a woman-only space say based on religious grounds or special classes for abused women otherwise Carolena would find in Europe bureacracy has caught up with her. Frankly I think if women or men want to dance in single gender groups, that's fine in law I do but we'd sure have a problem doing what Carolena is with classes. I work as an ITS (using ATS moves)teacher for a college and I can't restrict on such ground what ever I believe. It would also be difficult even if I were self-employed.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Isn't that a wonderful feeling and special thing? I felt that way from even the smaller things like a female in front of me who asked if I would like to trade places and move up front. I try to make sure anyone behind me can still see the teacher.

Yes it is wonderful. I've known the troupe leader for many years now - and she had told me on more than one occasion that as much as she loves male dancers (she sponsors a male teacher every year around Valentine's day), that there'd never be a male dancer in her troupe because it was for "strong women" and all about "female empowerment", etc.

Suddenly, I was in her class - and dancing with her troupe as a "special guest dancer". Eventually, they had a discussion amongst themselves and decided that I "wasn't like most other males" - that I was an "honorary woman" and wanted me in the troupe.

So there I am! And yes, I'm most proud, humbled, and honored.

Good on you for keeping in mind that your dance sisters need to see the teacher - I always tend to stay in the back or to one side (or both!) for that reason. I'm *BIG*, I can see quite well from the back most of the time, so why block someone else's view?
 

maria_harlequin

New member
I'm not sure if she could actually do that in the UK. There are ways to have a woman-only space say based on religious grounds or special classes for abused women otherwise Carolena would find in Europe bureacracy has caught up with her. Frankly I think if women or men want to dance in single gender groups, that's fine in law I do but we'd sure have a problem doing what Carolena is with classes. I work as an ITS (using ATS moves)teacher for a college and I can't restrict on such ground what ever I believe. It would also be difficult even if I were self-employed.

Even if it's a private studio Lizaj? I wasn't even aware that something like this exists! I thought studios everywhere had the right to say no to a certain gender...we don't say no to male students for our belly dance classes but we certainly have a no men rule for our striptease and pole dancing classes at the studio.
 

Kashmir

New member
Even if it's a private studio Lizaj? I wasn't even aware that something like this exists! I thought studios everywhere had the right to say no to a certain gender...we don't say no to male students for our belly dance classes but we certainly have a no men rule for our striptease and pole dancing classes at the studio.
Actually New Zealand is the same. What is the point of anti-discrimination legislation if it doesn’t apply to private individuals?

Ours says that it shall be unlawful for any person who supplies goods, facilities, or services to the public or to any section of the public to refuse or fail on demand to provide any other person with those goods, facilities, or services on the grounds of gender (including pregnancy and childbirth), martial status (married, single, living together, widowed), religious or ethical belief (ie whether you have a religion and if so what it is), colour, race, ethnic origins, disability (physical and psychological), age, political opinion, employment status, family status, sexual orientation.

There are exceptions for maintenance of separate facilities for each sex on the ground of public decency or public safety. But basically if you are a business you may not discriminate.
 

maria_harlequin

New member
Actually New Zealand is the same. What is the point of anti-discrimination legislation if it doesn’t apply to private individuals?

I'm all for that but it just doesn't seem right for a guy to suddenly show up at a striptease class, have all of the other (female) students leave because they're not comfortable with it, the studio loses money, and bad word of mouth gets around that the teacher lets a guy into a class where women are stripping, the studio loses even more students.

I'm all for protecting the rights of the individual but when it comes to a case like this, shouldn't we also protect the community?
 

lizaj

New member
Even if it's a private studio Lizaj? I wasn't even aware that something like this exists! I thought studios everywhere had the right to say no to a certain gender...we don't say no to male students for our belly dance classes but we certainly have a no men rule for our striptease and pole dancing classes at the studio.

You couldn't advertise a male-only classes unless you were putting on a class for a special catagory eg Moslem ladies,abused women. Strict interpretation of the law would say no you can't discriminate in terms of gender any more than race. But I am sure it's easy in a private situation to "put off" male queries and it's going to take a brave and determined man to fight his way into a class that doesn't want him.
I've had 2 phone calls from potential male students in all the time I've been teaching. One I'm sure was phony. The other I reckon was genuine and I was on a summer break and told him about Khaled and Shafeek coming to Liverpool and advised him to see them and come back to me after the summer break. Either he thought better or got scared by the guys' talent:lol:
This is another reason why I like being employed, I am bound by my employers' code and that will be no discrimination and there are proper facilities for male and female changing etc.
Again I have only ever been in a class with a male once and he is a friend and established dancer. The major festival I attend has never had a male apply to attend (but a good few excellent male teacher) You Khanjar may well be one a tiny handful who has been to festivals. I remember the problems Helen (formally Mike) Waldie had finding acceptance. Well the law will protect men to a certain extent from discrimination but I bet there are plenty of women capable of making a male student feel uncomfortable if they so choose whatever legislation we have. Tribal dancing though is often done in troupes formed by individual dancers and I am surprised that there is not yet one here with a mel member. Some have musicians but so far I haven't heard of one with a regular male dancer.
Male students are so thin on the ground in this country in either ME or tribal dance despite some high profile and excellent role models. But I am sure things will change and the interest in dance in general will prompt more men to consider belly dance and tribal dancing.
 

lizaj

New member
It would be cool to see an all male Tribal troupe. Not intended to keep women out, but instead to inspire male dancers and show that men can do this too.
Yes why not. I can see a male tribal troupe being a fantastic addition to the scene.:clap:
Mixed troupes even better..another dynamic to the dance. We should all be thinking about entertainng people when we perform and I often think ATS/ITS is somewhat "intoverted" and all about taking part not exhibition. Of course when you see a really togther group well costumes, it is entertaining but sometimes..mmmmm
 

maria_harlequin

New member
It would be cool to see an all male Tribal troupe. Not intended to keep women out, but instead to inspire male dancers and show that men can do this too.

I think an all-male ATS troupe would be a fantastic idea! It'd be so interesting to see what the come up with costuming, move preferences, and energy.
 

Sita

New member
Yes why not. I can see a male tribal troupe being a fantastic addition to the scene.:clap:
Mixed troupes even better..another dynamic to the dance. We should all be thinking about entertainng people when we perform and I often think ATS/ITS is somewhat "intoverted" and all about taking part not exhibition. Of course when you see a really togther group well costumes, it is entertaining but sometimes..mmmmm

I'll be honest and say I really only care about the level of skill when it comes to judging a dancer, so male/female/transexual tribal troupe whatever just be good and get me to enjoy your performance :lol:... although in terms of equality and discrimination issues, I agree that mixed troupes seem the ideal as lizaj says above it would "add another dynamic to the dance".... I'm sure there must be some around I think the unity of ITS/ATS makes the concept quite interesting.

Sita
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
It would be cool to see an all male Tribal troupe. Not intended to keep women out, but instead to inspire male dancers and show that men can do this too.

Its VERY hard to get an all male Belly Dance troupe together - its only been done twice that I'm aware of. The first was indeed a Tribal troupe (of some kind), "Sons of the Padisha" led by Jim Boz. The second was a student troupe in Minnesota (or thereabouts) that may still be extant.

If anyone has heard of others, I'd love to hear about it! The problem is that there are so few of us to start with, and we all have very different styles and philosophies. A bunch of male dancers in one place at one time would probably result in us strangling each other with our veils... :lol::lol:

For myself, I won't say that I'd "never" be in an all-male troupe; but it would be VERY unlikely for a number of reasons, not the least of which would be the (reverse) discrimination aspect.
 

Afrit

New member
I'm all for that but it just doesn't seem right for a guy to suddenly show up at a striptease class, have all of the other (female) students leave because they're not comfortable with it, the studio loses money, and bad word of mouth gets around that the teacher lets a guy into a class where women are stripping, the studio loses even more students.
I know what you mean. You build up a nice clientale in a restaurant then these blacks turn up and your nice customers stop coming. You shouldn't have to serve such! :rolleyes:
 

lizaj

New member
I'm all for that but it just doesn't seem right for a guy to suddenly show up at a striptease class, have all of the other (female) students leave because they're not comfortable with it, the studio loses money, and bad word of mouth gets around that the teacher lets a guy into a class where women are stripping, the studio loses even more students.

I'm all for protecting the rights of the individual but when it comes to a case like this, shouldn't we also protect the community?

We are not talking striptease or pole dancing..we are talking tribal dancing or maybe belly-dancing (Orientale)
The only problems about privacy would be suitable changing facilities..in other words not having to strip off in front of the opposite gender.
Foutunately I have little knowledge or experience of the teaching of striptease although I did teach a group of pole dancers to basics of belly dance..they were not performers in clubs but interested in the "gymnastic" side of the activity.

Striptease is part of the sex industry and I hardly see tribal dancing as such.:confused: I cannot see the connection you are making.
 

Aniseteph

New member
We are not talking striptease or pole dancing..we are talking tribal dancing or maybe belly-dancing (Orientale)

:clap:

I think the connection is more about how some students of any of these feel about what they are doing; if you are getting the all wimmin together therapy buzz off any of them then a guy might upset things for you.

But a tribal/bellydance class that's all about learning the dance; I don't see the problem with guys joining in.
 
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