Are Male Dancers welcome in Tribal?

[Bellydance Oz]

I saw a post on Yahoo Answers where a man was asking whether men were "welcome" in Tribal. Apparently Carolina Nericchio won't accept men in her classes. He's trying to decide whether it's worth pursuing or whether he wouldn't be accepted into the Tribal community.

I realised I have no idea - I know a few male belly dancers in Australia but none of them do Tribal.

What's the view? Is it too much of a sisterhood?

 

[Mosaic]

Unless males pursue it, it will remain a "sisterhood" I think. In a way when they use the title "tribal" it seems inconsistent with the word, as a tribe consists of males & females. I suppose somewhere out there, there is a group that would welcome males, but the hard part would be finding them.
~Mosaic

 

[Tera-Byte]

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[Mosaic]

First of all Welcome to the forum. It seems you understand the ATS background and yes any type of dance group has a right to say if their group is open to males and females or not. It has become accepted that ATS is all female, probably because the history from the beginning was only females were interested, I don't know, I am not a tribal dancer. There are other tribal styles around now and you seem to have found a groupe that suits you and welcomes you, that is great.

I think if you learnt ATS or whatever movements and incorporated them into your dance style, that would be up to you. I don't think you are going to be saying that your style is ATS, I would think most people who understand tribal wouldn't say you were ATS either.

ATS, Gypsy Caravan etc as far as I know are exclusively female, so do all have a policy of female only, I have no idea. I don't know if the movements they teach are copyright/patented or whatever, which would prevent others from using them without permission, I could be wrong, but doubt they are.

Anyway, I am glad you have found a teacher who is happy to teach males as well as females her tribal style.
~Mosaic

 

[staranise]

Carolena accepts men in her workshops. There is one dancer I know of named Valizan who has earned his General Skills for ATS certificate and his ATS teacher training. Here's his tribe profile Valizan's Profile - tribe.net

I have only heard rumours as to why she doesn't accept men at her regular classes, and I'd rather not speculate any further. But there is no rule stopping men from learning ATS, and in my experience, most of the tribal girls are more than happy to have an eager male dancer in the group. If anything I'd be more concerned about the potential for being treated like a novelty!

 

[Kharis]

Let's say she isn't supportive of males for some reason. Would a male dancer still be happy performing experimental and modern types of Bellydance if he were to use improv in groups but not necessarily with FatChance movement language? Would he do alright dancing a cabaret/showcase style with choreography and improv, doing his own thing, while sometimes practicing the ATS(American Tribal Style)? Even if he's not welcome by the founders of the ATS style and Fatchance format, if it's just a portion of his repertoire for ideas and creativity, the rest of his dancing influences and skills would make him respected, wouldn't it?

A dancer, male or female, can dance to what they please, when they please and how they please. Whether they are good or bad at it, is irrelevant, unless they wish to move into the professional arena. In which case, a dancer will be respected if they study their art, work hard at it, and become adept... male or female - in an ideal world. The only way to deal with exclusion is to forge a new path that is independent of those wishing to hold you back.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Welcome to the forum, Tera-Byte, we're very glad to have you. Personally, I haven't met but one male bellydancer, let alone a Tribal one (unless the one I did meet is into Tribal---I only met him briefly at a Ren faire). Online is a different story. But even though, if it's your heart's desire to dance Tribal, go for it! Perhaps after you've become skilled, you might start your own tribal troupe, including males and females alike. I think that would be awesome. In the meantime, I have seen a few male Tribal fusion dancers on YouTube; in my opinion, Frank is far and away the best I've seen to date:

YouTube - Frank, January 07 (this one takes a bit to start)

Hope our responses are giving you the encouragement you need. If this is what you truly want to do, then don't give up.

 

[Afrit]

Although not that common there are lots of male belly dancers out there. With Tribal, I gues it depends on what sort of Tribal. John Cpmton's Habi 'Ru obvious has men - as he's one himself. I think the original Bal Anant had men - but I don't think they danced - can any one confirm or deny?

Lara had a great collection of male belly dancers in her Gilded Serpent article:
Men in Middle Eastern Dance

 

[Tera-Byte]

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[Demelza Aradia]

We have a dude in our ATS class, fatchance format. Our teacher has no problem with it, and the rest of the women have no problem with it. If you were learning from Carolena, you may be in a bit of trouble hearing that she doesnt accept men in her class, but you are not, so I reckon it is fine.

I reckon it's a bit like university. Not long ago only men went to university - it was thought only men should. Now men and women both go to university in equal numbers - something male dominated became equal because women who wanted to do it did it.

I reckon it can be a sisterhood, and it can be a siblinghood. Everybody is people in the end - all the trust stuff that is present in the dance I dont think is just for women. We can trust men as well!

 

[PracticalDancer]

. . . But Carolena Nericcio created the FatChance language of movements, which is practiced by people in different places as a standard. They use it to improvise with. For me to learn this style would be to learn basically Nericcio's style. And if she didn't intend for this style to be open to males, which is her choice, well I'd feel like any time and effort I put into it would be tainted. To give an example, if over-dramatic, it would be like joining the military of some country that would never accept me as a part of its society no matter how much I fought for it. And I'd feel rather desperate if I went forth and learned it anyways. And if I did, I could have opportunities very hindered by being a male.

I'm hoping Nericcio is supportive of well intending males who want to learn this style for the right reasons and with the right mindset and attitude. And that her female-only policy at her studio is for other reasons.

Let's say she isn't supportive of males for some reason. Would a male dancer still be happy performing experimental and modern types of Bellydance if he were to use improv in groups but not necessarily with FatChance movement language? Would he do alright dancing a cabaret/showcase style with choreography and improv, doing his own thing, while sometimes practicing the ATS(American Tribal Style)? Even if he's not welcome by the founders of the ATS style and Fatchance format, if it's just a portion of his repertoire for ideas and creativity, the rest of his dancing influences and skills would make him respected, wouldn't it?

Tera-Byte, welcome to the dance, and to the forum!

I am not a grounded student in FCBD or ATS. But, you may find some insights into Ms. Neroccio's thinking in the book "Belly Dance: Orientalism, Transnationalism, and Harem Fantasy." The book is a collection of scholarly articles on the dance. The chapter "Body, Image, Identity" is written by Barbara Sellers-Young (who also edited the book) discusses the origins of Tribal style and gives some insight into the goals and objectives Ms. Neroccio has beyond just the dance steps. There are no tight little sound bites I can share; but, the article is worth reading, worth the effort to read, and should provide some insight.

All that said, when I read your final question, I will sigh deeply and say that all artists struggle to earn respect. Males who dance this dance struggle too, I daresay sometimes more that we women do, as they battle all sorts of stereotypes, assumptions, and superficial dismissals of talent.

Dance the style of dance that speaks to you -- dance the steps that bring you joy, that share your talents, and that feel right to your true self. As long as you do that, friend, you will be genuine in your art. And, at least this small part of your audience will see that genuine passion come out, and will respect you as a dancer.

Regards,

Anala

 

[Mosaic]

[snip]

Dance the style of dance that speaks to you -- dance the steps that bring you joy, that share your talents, and that feel right to your true self. As long as you do that, friend, you will be genuine in your art. And, at least this small part of your audience will see that genuine passion come out, and will respect you as a dancer.

Regards,

Anala

This is so true - beautifully put Anala:clap:
~Mosaic

 

[Zorba]

One name: Steven Eggers

http://www.steveneggers.com/

He does Tribal after the Rachel Brice school, and is utterly FANTASTIC!!

As for Carolena, its my understanding that her "no males" policy is due to disruptions caused by same. I've taken workshops from her also, and find her to be a fantastic teacher.

Although I'm a cabaret guy, I'm currently learning Tribal, and the community troupe I co-founded has a Tribal dance in its repertoire.

I am also the first/only male to be inducted into a very longstanding, folkloric troupe that is ALL about female empowerment, etc. Once they figured out that I didn't threaten/change their mission, they invited me in. I'm both proud, and very much honored, to be dancing with these women.

 

[da Sage]

I saw a post on Yahoo Answers where a man was asking whether men were "welcome" in Tribal. Apparently Carolina Nericchio won't accept men in her classes. He's trying to decide whether it's worth pursuing or whether he wouldn't be accepted into the Tribal community.

I realised I have no idea - I know a few male belly dancers in Australia but none of them do Tribal.

What's the view? Is it too much of a sisterhood?

Men are welcome as tribal soloists, and in the many tribal classes and occasional tribal troupe that accept men. Because belly dance has such a highly sexually charged reputation (which attracts some fetishists/pervs), some tribal teachers don't accept men in their regular classes.

But you see this in old-style orientale classes, too. It's like an all-woman gym - nobody's saying guys shouldn't work out, just that we have a right to create an all-female space.

I don't believe in the "sisterhood" thing either, though. Unless people mean that you can hate your sisters as well as love them. Bellydance (even tribal dance) is too big for us all to be "sisters".

 

[Tera-Byte]

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[Ahimsa]

I attend a FCBD sister studio and we have a male dancer who attends... I would say he is probably the most passionate of all of us. And our teacher is incredibly proud of him!! We have no problem with a guy attending the class. Each student should be judged on their own merits - if they are disruptive, male OR female, then they are not welcome!

 

[Kharis]

We have a dude in our ATS class,!

Love that word...dude. Raqs Dude. Where does it originate from?

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Welcome, "dude."

Fat Chance format is widespread, but certainly not the only ITS format out there. I actually liked Gypsy Caravan's style a little better when I originally watched their videos. And Black Sheep Bellydance has a widely growing format too. Anthea has Tribal Odyssey format, which borrows what she likes from various styles.


And you gotta check out John Compton of Hahbi Ru. He's not Tribal in the new-school way, but more like the format Jamila Salimpour originally envisoned.

 

[da Sage]

I don't know yet how to repay her for all her help and effort. I got her a glass tip vase with ornamental wrappings around the neck in the colors of her company. Last time she had to improvise with a jar that belonged to the restaurant. Now she has her own. I can see teachers like her feel rewarded by seeing their students progress. Still I hope to even things out in some way. Maybe help transport large props and things with my truck or something.

A guy with a truck and a strong back always has a way to contribute.

 

[Tera-Byte]

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