Learning from the videos - is it hopeless?

[stepbystep]

Hi everyone! I have been intrigued by belly dancing since my first trip to Turkey when I was 13, and I have recently decided to at last go and learn it. My problem is that I am a broke student and I can't afford classes. I have decided to learn from rented dvds, youtube instructions and professional dancers videos, such as Sadie, Mishaal, Rachel Brice, and the ladies form Goddess Dancing. I also loved the snippets of the old Egyptian movies featuring belly dancers from the 40s and 50s.

I realize that it's not the best way to go about learning belly dancing, but I have years of ballroom dancing experience as well as some tai chi and yoga. Would it be still a horrible decision to learn without a live instructor? Should I stop now or it does not matter since I do not plan to ever teach?

thanks!

 

[Kashmir]

Whether or not you ever plan to teach isn't really the issue. If your "some" tai chi and yoga has given you the ability to realistically compare what your body is doing and a video you may have a chance - but most beginners are unable to do so (somethimes even when a teacher says "you're doing this, you need to do this" )

The other thing a teacher does for you is sort through the bs. A teacher should be able to distil the essence. Belly dance is more than a bunch of moves and if you are learning via a mix of video it is very likely that you'll miss the important bits that make it "belly dance" rather than jazz or modern or salsa or hula.

Keeping in mind that what you first learn is hardest to unlearn - whether it be lifting your heels to shimmy or believing in one of the modern myths - holding off a few months or even a year may be a good idea.

 

[Miranda Phoenix]

I am learning BD through both instructor-led classes as well as DVDs. I'd say - yes, absolutely, you can learn and improve your dance through (some) DVDs.

HOWEVER, you can't do it through DVDs alone, for several reasons. I'd say the most important (for your dance) is that there is a connection between the dancer, the music and the moves that can't be conveyed through a DVD. A close tie for second would be the safety issue (improper posture can and does result in injuries) and the lack of feedback (everyone learns differently and if the DVD instructor isn't speaking your "language", you won't "get" what you need from the instruction).

When I first started dancing, I found DVDs pretty useless. Today, however, they are a regular part of my learning - because I've got enough background to judge the quality of instruction and to utilize the content, regardless of the instructor's method of delivery.

Just my two cents.

 

[stepbystep]

thank you

 

[Suzanne Azhaar]

Videos are a great resource if you can't afford an instuctor. It is more challenging to learn from the television versus a teacher but hang in there. You will find great dancers who fit your interests and can attend class in your living room as often as you like.

 

[Kharis]

You can learn and certainly improve using DVD's, but you do need to attend class or workshops, as you cannot be subjective about yourself and bad habits can become ingrained if not corrected. So ideally both...starting with classes and then continuing with DVD's. But it's not impossible.

 

[stepbystep]

I will definitely try joining a group, hopefully this spring, and I understand that there is nothing better than an instruction from a good teacher.

I was hoping though that a dvd will give me an idea of what I am dealing with, what are the basic moves, what is important in general. For example the posture I see in belly dancing is basically the same as in ballroom dancing european program, but belly dancers isolate upper and lower parts of their body when it will ruin your movement in waltz for example.

 

[Miranda Phoenix]

...For example the posture I see in belly dancing is basically the same as in ballroom dancing european program, but belly dancers isolate upper and lower parts of their body when it will ruin your movement in waltz for example.

Oh, totally! I'm a ballroom dancer, too, and while there is bound to be some overlap between any two types of dances (keeping the shoulders back and down, for instance), between BD and ballroom - there's not that much. *chuckle*

I have two ballroom classes on Saturday mornings and two BD classes Saturday afternoons.... I LOVE getting to the BD studio, taking off my shoes, relaxing my "frame" and just letting my body move. :dance:

 

[Jujube]

I think DVDs are great for a non-beginner. They allow you to work on areas that your teacher doesn't cover, or explore different styles and presentations.

For a beginner though, I think the usefulness of videos is limited. You can see the moves and become familiar with what they are, but you really need a teacher to correct your posture, your feet, your hands, etc. Once you get the basics of form and posture down, then DVDs can be fantastic.

 

[Creaky Old Dancer]

learning from videos

Hi StepbyStep and welcome. I think and I see this as I've received the Turkish Style Belly Dance... that perhaps the a live class is more important as there are so many things that you have to have an understanding of that a live teacher can correct and a video no matter how good cannot. That said a dvd is a great memory aid. It also can really show differences in style. But your body must be able to speak the language and understand it before it can go off and play with dialects and accents. I hope that makes sense. The dvd made sense to me because I knew what she was doing but if I came to Turkish style cold and wanted to learn bd from it ... I don't think I would be confused by it. Okay other folk on the forum know me - but here goes the food comparision. You want to learn how to bake bread, you buy a breadmachine... you follow the directions but it doesn't come out quite right and you don't know why. Okay you learned how to bake bread with your hands and someone to show you ... what it means if the dough is too wet or too dry... not kneaded enough. Those things you have to see and feel to know. You've studied them and now you try the breadmachine again and by looking at the dough in the machine you know if you have to add more liquid or maybe stop the machine and knead it longer. So to me that is the difference between learning with live experience as opposed to learning by dvd. Hope this helps and isn't too convoluted it's been a long weekend. Creaks (amd now I'm an even older creaky old dancer)

 

[stepbystep]

Let me ask a different question then: is there any good (lol) way to figure out whether a teacher is a professional before I lay down my money? Are there any questions to ask without making it sound like an interrogation? Or should I just take a drop in class and that would be enough for me to figure out whether I want to stay or not?

 

[Jujube]

Let me ask a different question then: is there any good (lol) way to figure out whether a teacher is a professional before I lay down my money? Are there any questions to ask without making it sound like an interrogation? Or should I just take a drop in class and that would be enough for me to figure out whether I want to stay or not?

Hmm, thinking as I type here.....I would ask these questions.

How long have you studied bellydance?
How long have you been teaching?
What is your dance style?
Do you have particular props that you like to teach?
Do you or have you danced professionally? What kind of gigs?
Who are your influences?

I would ask these questions as well as taking a trial class with the person. That way you can try to gauge her expertise as well as see if you like her personality and teaching style.

 

[mahsati_janan]

Let me ask a different question then: is there any good (lol) way to figure out whether a teacher is a professional before I lay down my money? Are there any questions to ask without making it sound like an interrogation? Or should I just take a drop in class and that would be enough for me to figure out whether I want to stay or not?

A good teacher usually won't mind the questions - it is part of the job to be able to answer questions about your style and qualifications for students. As this dance doesn't currently have a governing body, you will want to ask about years dancing, years teaching, styles, and anything that interests you and also drop in to try a class to see if the instructor is a good fit for you.

Here are a few articles on the web on how to choose a teacher:

How to Choose a Belly Dance Teacher | eHow.com
How To Choose A Belly Dance Teacher
How to Belly Dance
How to Choose (or Lose) a Belly Dance Instructor - Shasta Daisy McCarty
How To Find A Belly Dancing Class In Your Community
How to Find a Belly Dance Teacher | eHow.com
How to find a belly dancing instructor - by Kaarina St. John - Helium

If you need a list of instructors, Shira's site has a good list: Find Belly Dancing Teachers and Performers all Over the World! Belly Dancing Lessons and Dancers! Search for Belly Dancers!

 

[Miranda Phoenix]

When I look for a teacher I ask all the questions that've already been listed, but the biggest ones, for me, is what style they teach and how long have they been dancing.

If the instructor answers with a little of this and a little of that - I don't bother asking anything further. If SHE doesn't know what she's teaching, how well can she possibly be teaching it?

And if she's been dancing less than five years, it's unlikely - unless she devoted most of her time toward the art - that she knows any dance style with enough true depth to REALLY be teaching it (this goes back to the aforementioned connection between the music, the dancer and the moves).

 

[Kharis]

Hmm, thinking as I type here.....I would ask these questions.

How long have you studied bellydance?
How long have you been teaching?
What is your dance style?
Do you have particular props that you like to teach?
Do you or have you danced professionally? What kind of gigs?
Who are your influences?

I would ask these questions as well as taking a trial class with the person. That way you can try to gauge her expertise as well as see if you like her personality and teaching style.

I've said it more than once, and I'll say it again. most of the above questions are not relevant in many cases. You could tick all those boxes and still not be a good teacher. So with all due respect, standing there and bombarding a teacher with that lot proves nothing. No, a teacher does not mind being asked questions if they are relevant to her teaching. The only one in that lot that could possibly provide some useful info, is, 'What style do you teach?'

All the others are neither here nor there. What is relevant is how well she dances and how well she teaches and the only way your gonna find that out, is by attending her class. She could be shit hot after only a very short time and with very little experience under her belt. She could be dire with a lifetime of experience working as a pro dancer, having studied it for years.

Luck of the draw. Anybody truly serious about learning this dance, will not stop at one teacher anyway, but go to several until they find the right one for them, or are able to draw what they want and need from each source.

Don't ask...do. You can ask all those questions til the cows come home, receive the answers to the positive to all of them, and still find yourself with someone who can't teach this dance.

 

[Jujube]

I've said it more than once, and I'll say it again. most of the above questions are not relevant in many cases. You could tick all those boxes and still not be a good teacher. So with all due respect, standing there and bombarding a teacher with that lot proves nothing. No, a teacher does not mind being asked questions if they are relevant to her teaching. The only one in that lot that could possibly provide some useful info, is, 'What style do you teach?'

All the others are neither here nor there. What is relevant is how well she dances and how well she teaches and the only way your gonna find that out, is by attending her class. She could be shit hot after only a very short time and with very little experience under her belt. She could be dire with a lifetime of experience working as a pro dancer, having studied it for years.

Luck of the draw. Anybody truly serious about learning this dance, will not stop at one teacher anyway, but go to several until they find the right one for them, or are able to draw what they want and need from each source.

Don't ask...do. You can ask all those questions til the cows come home, receive the answers to the positive to all of them, and still find yourself with someone who can't teach this dance.

My judgment is more on the teacher's responsiveness than the answers themselves. If she hems and haws, can't define a style, and seems thrown by the questions, chances are she's a hack. We all know that some beginners go out there and begin bellydance classes without knowing that they're learning from someone who has very limited exposure to the dance herself. Not only might a student throw away good money, waste time, and have to unlearn bad habits, but she could hurt herself with poor posture.

Of course, taking a class is the best way for someone who knows something about the dance to see what a teacher has to offer. But a fresh beginner might want to be a bit more cautious because she won't have the same ability to be critical as someone with some experience.

JMO

 

[mahsati_janan]

She could be shit hot after only a very short time and with very little experience under her belt. She could be dire with a lifetime of experience working as a pro dancer, having studied it for years.

Luck of the draw. Anybody truly serious about learning this dance, will not stop at one teacher anyway, but go to several until they find the right one for them, or are able to draw what they want and need from each source.

This is true, but, at the same time, a beginner in the form may not be able to tell immediately if the teacher is a good dancer or a good instructor. In that case, things like # years teaching/dancing can give the student a place to start. Many students who start with a less qualified teacher don't realize it until after they have already spent time and money learning bad habits that then have to be unlearned. Number of years in the field does not equal automatic talent and skill, but it is a fair starting point for students to ask - just like in hiring an employee the years and skill may not match, but it is still a standard and useful thing to know.

 

[Afrit]

I've said it more than once, and I'll say it again. most of the above questions are not relevant in many cases. You could tick all those boxes and still not be a good teacher. So with all due respect, standing there and bombarding a teacher with that lot proves nothing. No, a teacher does not mind being asked questions if they are relevant to her teaching. The only one in that lot that could possibly provide some useful info, is, 'What style do you teach?'

Although it is true you can tick the boxes and still be a poor teacher, it is even more likely the other way around. That is, if the teacher has studied for only a short time and no longer attends workshops/classes s/he is less likely to be a good teacher.

I would also be interested in how s/he learnt to teach. Is this a dancer who just decided there is money in teaching or is this someone who has put time and effort into learning how to teach as well as how to dance?

Incidentally, a good professional dancer is often not a good teacher - especially for beginners (more advanced dancers can more easily pick out what a good dancer has).

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Ask SPECIFICALLY how many years she has been studying BELLY DANCE.

I see a lot of crappy 6-week wonders try to pass off "years of ballet and jazz" experience as experience with MEDance. So what if you danced with a regional ballet company for 11 years. It isn't THIS dance. If the teacher is hesitant to say how long she/he has been studying THIS dance, be suspicious.

Also, pay attention to who they credit as important influences or who their teachers are. You can look up those teachers and see what kind of dancing that person likes and has experience with.

A teacher who has studied with or credits as major influences on her style Rachel Brice, Zoe, Sharon, and Carolena is likely to teach a much different kind of class than the teacher who credits Shareen el Safy, Faten Salama, Fifi Abdo, and Sahra Kent. Or the teacher who credits Sema Yildiz, Ozel Turkbas, and Tayyar Akdeniz.

Also be wary of someone who lists as their education a bunch of workshop they've been to. We've ALL been to workshops. It's a social thing as much as an educational one. If the person mentions completion of a series, like Suhaila level 4, or Hadia's professional training, or Sahra's Journey to Egypt, that's different.

I see a lot of what I consider unqualified teachers who list workshops they've attended as evidence of their "training." I have an issue with that. You don't "train" with someone by going to one of her workshops. If that instructor KNOWS YOUR NAME (or at least recognizes you) then you can say you train with her. If not, you've just taken some workshops with her.

Video says it best -- if the instructor has video on line, check it out. If you want to dance like that, take her class. (But not all of us have video online -- I'm working on it but I have very very little on tape. Just because she doesn't have a web video presence doesn't mean she's not a great teacher. Morocco only just last year posted a vid of herself and she's been teaching since the earth cooled.

 

[stepbystep]

thank you all for the information (especially Aziyade), I am very glad that this posting drew attention. I am beginning to tell the styles apart, and I guess I would just have to dive in and see what happens. The area I am in actually has a few teachers who have videos and credentials on their websites listed, and appear very confident in what they do.

Just recognized that the Turkish style includes a whole lot of moving about, lol! But I like the Roma influence in it.