To crit or not to crit!

Caroline_afifi

New member
by Khanjar, What I see with this world at the moment, is an overwhelming desire to become famous, and do it as quickly as possible. With our media the way it is, daily there is a new face, it seems if the faces on tv has accelerated in recent years, people know this and think that could be me and hopes of fame and fortune to follow, the get rich quick scenario

This is true and we also know that it usually does not involve any talent or skill.

Having said that, it is a painful track for those z-list celebrities because the media loves hammering them to death.

There is a price to fame and those people in the limelight know it.

Very rarely have I seen a amateur student being slated on a forum (cant think of any BTW) but the way some people talk here you would think it was a daily bashing.

Now given that there are literally thousands of dancers out there, how many actually come under any scrutiny? a very very small percentage actually, and they are never usually some 'poor' student or newbie, they are people who advertise themselves and do this as a business.

The people who get discussed and debated on these forums are the ones who declare themselves as artists, performers and teachers etc.
With that comes responsibility...something which few people seem to want to accept.
 

lizaj

New member
If you leave the comment option available on Youtube , you are inviting comment and therefore have to expect anything. But I think it is valuable to have your exerience and statement for people to see and you will expect not to have everyone to agree with or like what they see and hear.
I think it is hard to accept that people don't care what people say about what they do as this lady claims. She talks as one backed into a corner and that a shame: she could come out of the corner and listen to good advice and try to incorporate that into what she does well. Rarely is there nothing positive about a dancer. I think to not critique a dancer who claims to be setting up a new school of dance can be seen as dismissive as being personally cruel in the way you criticise. Newcomers and onlookers deserve to be well-informed or to be given alternatives. I remember the young lady who came in for a lot criticsm when she set up her school making claims that there were no teachers in her area (which was untrue), that there were no good dancers in the UK.( I think we have seen a few) Enthusiasm is one thing, lying is another. Do you speak up or let people think she is right? However in her case she disabled comments so anyone watching her channel had no counter arguement. Let's hope watchers saught out good practise in the uK!
No the majority of the GP are not gullible but they are often not that arsed about the reality of belly dance so when they see either of our Youtube ladies or a sleazy performance in a restaurant or a really rather good Burlesque performance, who can fault them for taking it as read that's what BD is about in the West even if they have seen good,not so and brilliant male and female dancers in Sharm and Turkey.
 
If one is going to critique a performance one should be aware of what one's motives for doing so are. Is it a true desire to be helpful or just an excuse to vent spleen. Then there are ways to do so even if something is a complete piece of crap. Another art school example : The professor holds up the piece of work with two fingers and drops the work on the floor with the exclaimation "This is a piece of shit". Another professor with the same piece of work Looks at the piece and exclaims "Well I would pay you for how you think... but not for how you executed the thought." Which of these two critques actually helps the student?
As stated what one says privately as opposed to publicly matters. Receiving criticism and critques are part of learning but they must be done with the intent of helping not hurting. It is fun to say what were they thinking...but look beyond that and only then add something useful. Okay really climbing up on my soapbox here. The advice go look at something... is fine...but it helps if you explain how to look and what you are looking for. The difference between Ahah !and Huh? Even with positive critques... to say something is delicious isn't very helpful if one intends to reproduce the deliciousness. Saying the way the two flavors interact... now there is the way one will learn what works and doesn't. Okay back to practice now and less exciting laundry. Creaks
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
If one is going to critique a performance one should be aware of what one's motives for doing so are. Is it a true desire to be helpful or just an excuse to vent spleen.

Hi Creaky,

I totally get what you are saying here.. but there are different contexts to this.

For me personally, I am not talking about providing an individual dancer with feedback. I generally only do this when asked for it, or someone I am teaching.

In the context of forums, it is somewhat different because clips are used as a general tool of discussion, not a direct feedback to that particular individual.

From what I have experienced here, 99% of these people are teachers themselves who have displayed their own clips as tools on the internet.
 

karena

New member
I think of a costume as a thing. A person can easily change a costume. There is not that much emotion invested in it most of the time. Discussing a dance is more personal. The dancer is the dance.

I see what you're saying but a person can also change the way they dance. If someone has put their heart and soul into a dance as opposed to their heart and soul into creating a costume, I really don't see the difference. They are both creative endeavours where someone is laying themselves on the line (of course not always, some costumes are just bought, some dancers are just someone's choreo). I think these can all be matters of someone's art and creativity, just expressed in different ways, be it creating an artifact or creating a dance.

(Just to say in advance I'm not even meant to be here at the moment and have minimal access to the internet, so apologies in advance if it turns into a hit and run :))
 

Jane

New member


Far left symbol. Is this possibly where the Tribal Fusion dancer from the clip got her name? Just a guess. Sorry this is huge, I have no idea how to change the size.
 

Sita

New member
And, see, she corrupted the Venn Diagram by adding the 4th circle of Frank Herbert to her yoga /tribal / belly trinity! :lol::lol::lol:


I better run before a thousand bedlah get thrown at me!

(scampers off . . .)

:dance::dance:Long live the awesome power of the VENN DIAGRAM:dance::dance:

Is there no magic it cannot achieve?

Sita
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
Anything can be achieved in the minds of people.. and on paper... it is getting everyone else to believe it which is the problem..:think:
 

Sita

New member
Totally OT and trivia:
I never knew Florence Nightingale invented the Pie Chart!

:shok:did she? wow :clap: to her. Pie charts are great, clear and look so good in presentations (this may sound geeky and sad - But it's all true;):lol::cool:)

Thanks for the info lizaj
love
Sita
 

lizaj

New member
:shok:did she? wow :clap: to her. Pie charts are great, clear and look so good in presentations (this may sound geeky and sad - But it's all true;):lol::cool:)

Thanks for the info lizaj
love
Sita

She was an eminant mathematician but I suppose that is eclipsed by the nursing fame. She evidently used them to ilustrate her cases for reform.
Ah QI is an endless source of eyebrow raising.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
I have learned so much from people commenting (both rudely and politely) on videos.

How many of us teach by demonstrating the wrong way to do something, and then comparing it with the right way? I teach posture this way. Sometimes it really really helps to see a visual example of the WRONG way to understand the right way.

I won't leave negative comments on Youtube. BUT I do feel that on forums like OD, Bhuz, and tribe -- if YOU put your video on youtube, you are opening it up to criticism, both in real life and on forums. The only difference between me talking trash about Dune Bellydance to my students and me commenting on it here, is that if you put the effort in to google me, you can read those comments.

If you post a video and claim to be an "authority," (like saying you teach it or you're a "professional") then you definitely open yourself up for a challenge to that authority.

Every other discipline has peer review. Why not this one?
 

Jane

New member
Every other discipline has peer review. Why not this one?

Won't let me rep you Aziyade :(

We should have peer review. If a dance is innapropriate or just plain isn't working, a friend/fellow dancer/teacher/mentor needs to pull you aside and say something before it goes too far. Gently, privately, and with tact.

When something is presented as professional and is glaringly bad, we still hold back. Perhaps because the community is small and many of us know each other personally? Maybe also because our community is predominantly women and in many cultures we are taught to be circumspect and never hurt anyone's feelings? I battle with myself over this issue. :think:
 
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