Studio Loyalty

[Azrael]

Hi all! I have a question for you that seems a bit vague, but bear with me!

How do you feel towards studio loyalty? What type of loyalty do you (as a teacher) expect from a student, and what do you expect (as a student) from a teacher?

After a mishap with stolen choreography, our studio set up a contract that included some very good things like "as a studio we will promise to see each dancer as unique and will encourage her and assist her to grow in her own dancing abilities" as well as that as dancers we will not perform/teach studio choreography to other studios/people without permission from the studio teachers. It also states that as a dancer of "X" studio, we won't have loyalties to any other studio within "Y"kms of our studio. Which I feel is quite fair? It doesn't mean that we're not ALLOWED to go to other studios where they teach things which we don't, just that we recognise "X" studio as our home base. (We sound like aliens - hehehe! :lol

I think that teachers have the responsibility to their students to acknowledge where they fall short (for example, not everybody can teach zills or other "specialties") and allow them to go to other studios to learn those skills. Personally, I am very happy with the way that our studio works. We ALL do workshops (including the 2 teachers) and learn together while still being taught all the years of knowledge and the different styles from the different teachers.

 

[PracticalDancer]

Hmm.

(raises one eyebrow)

Teachers or instructors are employees, so I can see limiting their activities via contract.

Choreographies are subject to copyright; but, once taught to students who pay to learn the choreography, the choreographer does lose some rights. Many instructors thus ask to be credited for the choreo (and some even jokingly add "unless you screw it up, then don't associate me with it!").

However, paying students are paying for goods and or services, and I really have a problem with limiting their activities contractually. You cannot contract loyalty from someone who is buying something from you -- at least, not in some countries and regions. Contracting with someone that they WILL pay and WILL keep coming back to pay you more sounds, honestly, like extortion. Makes it sound desperate, fishy, or -- at worst -- cultish.

just sayin'.

Regards,

Anala

 

[Azrael]

The activities aren't limited or controlled in any way - as I stated, we're free to attend other classes. I don't mean loyalties in the sense of actually being loyal - that is earned. But in the sense that we're committed to our studio by attending classes, learning choreographies and dancing to the best of our abilities.

 

[Aniseteph]

Hmm again.

As a student I keep going back to my teacher's classes and workshops because I enjoy it and get something out of it. I don't see that as loyalty as much as just being a happy customer. I don't think she would consider it any of her business if as a student I went to another teacher as well - she'd more likely be pleased I was keen and ask about what I was learning.

Maybe there's some loyalty in the fact that I would not go round slagging her off, or performing her choreographies without permission, or ripping off her teaching material. I just look at it as plain polite ethical behaviour not to do that kind of thing, but if a studio had got burnt and wanted to put something in their terms and conditions to protect their copyrightable materials, fair enough.

I don't know how this studio set up works, but I would find it very odd if I just wanted to go to a class to learn belly dance at studio X and they tried to tell me what I could and couldn't do with in the rest of my time. Even if studio Y is teaching the same things, maybe I just want the extra practise or another teacher's take on it, which is none of studio X's business. How very dare they, in fact...

 

[Aniseteph]

Posted the above at the same time as your reply, Azrael!

I agree. It is reasonable to expect class attendance, learning choreographies and doing your best if people have committed to a performance troupe. Otherwise you let down your fellow dancers and make the studio look bad.

But for just classes - IMO people can turn up and dance in whatever half-hearted way they like, as long as they are not disrupting the class for anyone else. You don't mess up a complicated choreo for the whole class by not knowing what you are doing or not being there, and you don't miss classes and then expect the teacher to go over things just for you.

I think it's down to individual teachers to make it clear what is expected in their classes.

 

[PracticalDancer]

[snip] After a mishap with stolen choreography, our studio set up a contract that included some very good things like "as a studio we will promise to see each dancer as unique and will encourage her and assist her to grow in her own dancing abilities" as well as that as dancers we will not perform/teach studio choreography to other studios/people without permission from the studio teachers. It also states that as a dancer of "X" studio, we won't have loyalties to any other studio within "Y"kms of our studio. Which I feel is quite fair? It doesn't mean that we're not ALLOWED to go to other studios where they teach things which we don't, just that we recognise "X" studio as our home base. [snip]

Emphasis mine.

Contracts by nature restrict activities, require activities, and are legally enforceable. What you have created here, at least how it would be interpreted in the States, is a "non-compete" clause. If you are making students -- paying students-- sign it, then any activities they conducted at other studios could be in violation of this contract.

So, just to be sure I have understood you correctly, are you making any student that comes in off the street and who wants to pay to take classes with you sign this? Or, are you just requiring that anyone who is paid to teach classes sign it?

 

[Darshiva]

From a personal perspective, I think it goes against everything I teach my students. The contract seems to be saying that if you take a second class elsewhere you can't study here. Since I encourage my students to study outside of my classroom in any way they see fit (complete with recommendations of other local teachers, if they ask for them) I cannot condone anyone behaving like this. It may be crafted with the best of intentions, but to me it smacks of industrial sabotage against other local teachers.

 

[Azrael]

Ah, but I am not in the States, so it's not a legally binding contract. More of a "code", like the code of ethics on the Bellydance Association of South Africa's website.
We only make troupe members sign the contract, so they are our performance group. We have beginners, who can come and go, and then intermediates who do perform, but less seriously. In the last few months we had somebody join our advanced class from the intermediate class and then she ended up going back to the intermediate class because she struggled with coming on a Thursday (advanced class day). She had signed a contract, but was OK with still having signed it after she went back to intermediate.
Does this answer the question? We just have our performance troupe sign it, as they should have the highest level of commitment to the studio - a quality needed to become part of the troupe.

 

[PracticalDancer]

We just have our performance troupe sign it, as they should have the highest level of commitment to the studio - a quality needed to become part of the troupe.

Now, THAT piece makes sense. An agreement for regular performers in a troupe is actually something I agree with; but, a contract for all students is not!

Thanks for clearing that up!

Regards,

Anala

 

[Daimona]

After a mishap with stolen choreography, our studio set up a contract that included some very good things like "as a studio we will promise to see each dancer as unique and will encourage her and assist her to grow in her own dancing abilities" as well as that as dancers we will not perform/teach studio choreography to other studios/people without permission from the studio teachers.

In an agreement between performing group members and the studio, this shouldn't be a problem. Not that it really matters, but you don't say how the choreography was stolen; did the (former) troupe member perform it outside the studio approved setting? Did she/he teach the choreography to others outside the studio?

It also states that as a dancer of "X" studio, we won't have loyalties to any other studio within "Y"kms of our studio. Which I feel is quite fair? It doesn't mean that we're not ALLOWED to go to other studios where they teach things which we don't, just that we recognise "X" studio as our home base.

In general I think stating what kind of commitment that are expected from members of the troupe is a good thing, as the troupe is dependent of their committed members to work as intended.

If I were a candidate for the troupe, I'd agree to recognize the studio as the home base for the performance troupe, that I must be committed to join the troupe and that the name and the choreographies are own by the studio, but I would not allow the contract to state that the studio was MY home base of dance. Hence I would not accept the following sentence:
"as a dancer of "X" studio, we won't have loyalties to any other studio within "Y"kms of our studio."

Loyalty is something that should be earned.
Given the possibility to choose between two or more studios with equal possibilities, I'd probably stay at the studio where I feel most at "home" and where I learn in a way that suits my personality. If I had to sign a contract stating that "this is my home studio" to stay there, I'd most probably either gone to the other studio without this contract or found another way to keep dancing.

 

[Yshka]

I think the idea of having troupe members sign a sort of 'commitment' is not bad. After some members of our troupe left us because they had their own plan and tried to pick apart the troupe spirit (before we ever had a contract), we installed a commitment sheet for all members. It simply states what we expect from them, and what they get to expect from us (in terms of paying performers, shows, troupe benefits and general 'house' rules). We have a few points on choreo copyright since I feel this should be included to protect artistic creations, but we don't restrict them anything else dance-wise, nor where to dance.

I find that little line goes against every one of my principles. If troupe ladies study with our troupe we expect them to be fully committed, and if they sign the commitment sheet we expect them to understand and adhere to the agreements stated within, but if they want to take classes with the teacher next door at the same time, they should be able to!

We have a teacher around town who does use these as extortion methods. Anyone who teaches, and I suspect for troupe activities as well is asked to sign a legally binding contract basically saying they will not work with anyone else while they work with this teacher, and when they quit, they are not allowed to teach anywhere else for a while (a fellow dancer was sued by this teacher because she started teaching in another town...)! To me that is extortion, but sadly this teacher keep her students to herself and most of them don't know they are being extorted (is that a word?) untill they quit the job. The students who've never been to another class think she is all there is and she is an expert on the matter. Unfortunately however she is the least qualified teacher in town.......
Then again this lady also claims she invented the basics of bellydance, but has no credentials whatsoever......

Things like this make me sad. On topic however, I don't like the restricting troupe members where to take classes part. They should be allowed to study with whoever they want. I agree with Daimona I'd also take off if my teacher expected me to restrict my studying activities only to her school.

 

[da Sage]

We have some first-rate dance troupes in our town. As far as I know, all the troupes allow their members to perform with other groups - whether that's recurring hafla performances with friends, a theatrical presentation, performances with classes not associated with the troupe director's school(s)....

The issue should be whether the dancer can commit to the troupe and fulfill the attendance and performance quality expectations - not whether or not she chooses to commit to another troupe in her "spare time".

 

[Shanazel]

Contracts of the type Azrael mentions are perhaps good psychological incentives and clear indications of what is expected of troupe members, but there is really no way to back them up short of tossing an offender out, which could be done with or without a contract.

I see no need for a contract unless it involves an event for which one expects to be paid- then I darn well want the agreement in writing.

 

[indrayu]

It's entirely fair, and probably a good idea, to have a written agreement about things that have a legal basis such as copyright and pay. That way, everyone knows what the State/National law is and where they stand in relation to it. But the concept of loyalty? How could anyone sign an agreement to feel a certain way? The limitations on involvement with studios within X kilometres of studio Y sound like unfair business practice. What someone does with their time is their own business; if they happen to be performing and making money for studio Z as well but are doing nothing illegal or unethical, perhaps studio Y could look at the reasons before trying to control them.

I used to attend classes with two different studios (who may not have always had the most mutually supportive attitudes) and perform with the troupe of one. I chose not to perform with the other for my own reasons. (Not many gigs in this small town anyway, little chance of double bookings!)If, however, I had chosen to perform with both, the studio that had the problem with it would have lost me and my hundreds of dollars of course fees. Bad business practice in the long run.

Just another observation; what seems polite/ common sense to one person may not be to another. Once a student wore the costume of one troupe in a group performance with another school, and was indignant when told she shouldn't. Her reasoning was that as she had paid for the costume, it was hers to wear as she liked. Probably true legally, but...So establishing a code of conduct can be a good idea, but just not in ways that attempt to be totally controlling.

 

[Mosaic]

[snip]

Just another observation; what seems polite/ common sense to one person may not be to another. Once a student wore the costume of one troupe in a group performance with another school, and was indignant when told she shouldn't. Her reasoning was that as she had paid for the costume, it was hers to wear as she liked. Probably true legally, but...So establishing a code of conduct can be a good idea, but just not in ways that attempt to be totally controlling.

I honestly don't see what is wrong with a student who has purchased her own costume, wearing that costume to dance in with another group or at any function she has been asked to dance at. Costumes are not cheap, and certainly don't deserve to lie around waiting for the original dance it was purchased to be danced again. If the school/teacher didn't want those costumes used outside of her school or for anything but that particular dance then she should have purchased them all herself and the students then return them afterwards.

I would be indignant if someone told me not to wear a costume I had purchased if I was dancing with another school/troupe/solo.

I dance with 2 schools the teachers know each other and are very aware I dance with both encouraging their students to stretch their wings so to speak. Have danced at a public venue where both groups I dance with were dancing, I finished one dance and 25 mins later I was back on stage with the other group, both teachers were watching each time.

My very first teacher didn't like her students to have lessons with anyone else or to buy costumes or costumes pieces from any outlet except hers, and would get quite miffed if you did. I purchased where I wished and for about 6 months kept quiet about taking another class, but eventually just let it slip on purpose I was taking other classes. She was miffed, but couldn't do anything about it.

After a year with her I realised she wasn't the teacher for me, so found another. I am still with my 2nd teacher (5.5yrs & counting) and the newer teacher (4yrs & counting) My newest teacher was unable to do a wedding performance about 2 +years ago and mentioned it to me, so I suggested my other teacher ( they knew of each other, but that was all at the time). Anyway Mya rang Lindy, Lindy filled the spot and they have continued to call on each other since then when necessary.

Both my teachers say to their students, it is good to take other classes, but just remember when you are in my class for that hour - hour&half you are mine

As for contracts, if you dance professionally I would think some sort of contract would be necessary to protect your rights, within a school I think in a lot of cases it is honour based. I have never had a reason to dance anyone else's choreo outside of that school, but if I did, I certainly would ask permission first. We are now being pushed to form our own choreo's and also to step out into the world of improv, so I would be using my own choreos if I chose to dance outside of either school.
~Mosaic

 

[indrayu]

With reference to the troupe costume, it was one that that troupe always uses for all their performances, so it really is part of that troupe's public "face" and can be identified with that school by any regular audience member - not something worn only very rarely or for a solo. Costumes are expensive, time-consuming things, but if you choose to dance in public with two separate groups, you accept the extra time and expense, IMO. Even if at least one of the troupes is run more as part of the dance school's owner's business plan than as an artistic venture, it still has its own distinct style. Presumably, those who dance in more than one troupe do so because they enjoy what each has to offer, hopefully not just as double the opportunities to strut one's stuff. I see keeping the costuming separate as an indication of one's own awareness of and respect for whatever artistic vision there may be for the troupe and one's own participation.

 

[Bellydance Oz]

I honestly don't see what is wrong with a student who has purchased her own costume, wearing that costume to dance in with another group or at any function she has been asked to dance at. Costumes are not cheap, and certainly don't deserve to lie around waiting for the original dance it was purchased to be danced again. If the school/teacher didn't want those costumes used outside of her school ...she should have purchased them all herself.

I agree with this. If the school expected the student to keep that costume purely for use with the troupe, that should've been made very clear before asking the student to invest in the costume, because that might have influenced her decision.

Many dancers in Sydney dance with more than one troupe and I have seen the same costume used across different schools.

As for contracts, I don't see a problem with being asked to make certain commitments to the troupe (choreography etc), but I would be very "anti" the sentence requiring me to regard the troupe's studio as my "home base".

At one time, I was taking classes at two studios. I regarded the first studio as my "home base" because the standard of classes was higher and I was learning a huge amount there - but they didn't have an amateur performance troupe. So I also attended another school which did offer performance opportunities. I would've been quite miffed if that studio had started bleating about "loyalty" and "home base".

 

[lizaj]

I expect students to completely toe the line IN class.
Outside I have no command over what they do.
You'd have a job getting a Brit to sign anything like a contract , I think:lol:
Trupes are a different matter.