Sadie and Kaya in an "erotic" music video....

[lizaj]

"it sure ain't ART!"

As I wrote above, I find very little in the way of artistic merit in the video. Therefore, you won't get an argument from me. Fans of sixshot.com may disagree but that's their right, too.

I note that nobody addressed a point I raised above re a BD performer allowing male audience members on stage with her. Some of you may recall a posting I made a long time ago about an Iranian friend of mine: he strenuously said that BD is for women - that he is hesitant to allow men to attend such performances and that the stage is strictly for women. He feels that his is the traditional view and that it was always meant to be that way. In fact, he said that men on stage with BD performers leads to behavioral license that is utterly decadent. Too bad I have lost touch with this friend as he has moved from the area. But I wonder what his response to the video would be -- most likely he would say, "told you so!"

Tell your friends it can also be good,cheesy fun!

 

[lizaj]

I think the problem with people like Kaya and Sadie is simply that they are not sophisticated enough "to do the kind of sexy" that many Egyptian dancers can achieve. (and other Western bellydancers)They have to go in for pouts and push for a nastiness whereas when you see Egyptian dancers being naughty there's can often see a "warmth", a shared cheek that isn't hard-edged and threatening.
I also wonder if the Sadie and Kaya's of this world no longer think children are worth protecting from (s)exploitation. being willing to strip off, perform lewd acts for an audience in the "safe" confines of a night-club is very difference from releasing suggestive material on the internet to match the vile lyrics of gansta rappers with a view to capturing a youth market.
I may be a "jellous hater" but these ladies appear to be plumbing the depths for their 15 mins of fame and a few dollars along with dragging down the name of Bellydance in the West.
Of course belly dancers are considered women of loose morals by some in the lands of origin but there are also those there who recognise that dancers are artistic,independent and a pleasure to watch. That's more than can be said for those two.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

But having said that, I also don't see them changing because the greater pond demands it, they will do as they will, methinks they somehow enjoy the notoriety.

A lot of their little fans on youtube may still buy their dvds (or steal them via torrent sites, which is more what I suspect.) But the greater pond CAN vote with their dollars. We can NOT host either of them in workshops, and we can NOT attend scheduled workshops with them.

And of course, we can educate our own students, denying them future 'generations' of potential workshoppers.

 

[Mosaic]

A lot of their little fans on youtube may still buy their dvds (or steal them via torrent sites, which is more what I suspect.) But the greater pond CAN vote with their dollars. We can NOT host either of them in workshops, and we can NOT attend scheduled workshops with them.

And of course, we can educate our own students, denying them future 'generations' of potential workshoppers.

Absolutely, and the greater pond will do that vote with their dollars going elsewhere and their exposure (double edged sword there:lol will be limited to a few sleazy videos & possibly nightclubs. Hopefully some of the fans will seek out bellydance classes and learn the correct way to dance and drop their idols like hot cakes.
~Mosaic

 

[Molly]

The discussion of how men should not be allowed on stage with a belly dancer reminded me of this Fifi video:



This video obviously has its setting in a bedroom, but the element of it is fun flirtation. The guy in it was having a blast watching her tease him with charm. The rap video Sadie and Kaya performed in had none of Fifi's fun, charming, and playful personality. Yes, you CAN have an element of sensuality (like Fifi or Samia), but there is a limit.

 

[missanime]

Erotic is not my word choice, its in the description of the video.

YouTube - Snake Chama_Avenue TY_Breezo_Count d_Timdizl_Sadie Belly dance_final.VOB

Sadie is a exceptionally talented woman and ridiculously well known in the belly dance community. I was suprised to see her in such a video to be honest.

As a university student I def need money but I have turned down music video opportunities because I want to be known as a dancer, not a lingerie clad girl crawling all over some singer along with other women. I hope Sadie didn't do this because she needed money...

LOL but why?? She probably made some good extra money from this...and IMO who cares if even for just a freakin few seconds of her professional bellydance life that she did this pop video lol I personally say Good for Her...glad she knows how to be smart financially!

On the flip side maybe she genuinely enjoys it and is comfortable with her sexuality and this is her thing, which I can't hold against her. To each their own.

Woahhhh...! Where the heck did the personal part of someone come into play w/doing this video as a professional..LOLLLL???! :think:

For some reason seeing Kaya in such a video and carrying on as such didn't surprise me at all, most likely because of the facial expressions she makes while performing "belly dance" normally.

I think it's weird that I've found sooo much crap about Sadie's partner, Kaya, and how she's "too sexual" or "too this", "too that", blah blah blah LOLLL. I've not seen/watched them long enough yet to make any constructive criticism yet lol but...the only immediate difference between the 2 of them is that Kaya is simply a much bigger girl than Sadie is, period!

 

[missanime]

speechless...just...speechless
rotest:rotest::shok:

And the rap!! why?? why afilliate BD with something that has such mysogynistic attitudes??!!!

it is wrong on so many levels. Shame on you Sadie and Kaya.

LOLLL

....Cuz no one who watches and actually *likes* these types of 'music' videos will even know how to spell the word 'bellydance' much less care if it's "respectful" or not, that's why

lol

 

[lizaj]

LOL but why?? She probably made some good extra money from this...and IMO who cares if even for just a freakin few seconds of her professional bellydance life that she did this pop video lol I personally say Good for Her...glad she knows how to be smart financially

Missanime..many of us care what she is doing to the image of this dance and also what kind of role models this video presents...submissive women pandering to violent meat-heads who praise "smacking said bi8ches up".
You don't care about how a pair of attention-seeking amoral women act when calling themselves bellydancers nor about the protection of children from sexploitation, so be it! But many of us do care.
It's all about money isn't...F*** kids and their futures and F*** an art form from another culture as long as we make loads of wonga!The good man wept!

Oh and I bet they made so much from that trash anyway. And they lose respect and admiration and solid jobs as belly dance instructors. I know what I would prefer as my legacy.

 

[maria_harlequin]

I wonder would they ever be accepted/forgiven if they apologised & returned to portraying BD as it should be or stopped dancing altogether. It seems to me that in all likelihood they wouldn't be. They have been cast out of the pond as pirhanas and all the other fish just don't want them back no matter what. But having said that, I also don't see them changing because the greater pond demands it, they will do as they will, methinks they somehow enjoy the notoriety.
~Mosaic

You know what they say at the Crisis Management centers and PR firms...you have 24 hours to come out and make things right. They're not getting back into the pond.

 

[Mosaic]

You know what they say at the Crisis Management centers and PR firms...you have 24 hours to come out and make things right. They're not getting back into the pond.

Piranhas do muddy the waters don't they and really who wants to swim in dirty polluted water.

As Liz would say "off wi dere eads!":lol:
~Mosaic

 

[bellyfester]

LOLLL

....Cuz no one who watches and actually *likes* these types of 'music' videos will even know how to spell the word 'bellydance' much less care if it's "respectful" or not, that's why

lol

Glad to see my indignation caused such amusement
The act of viewing is passive, bad or good images/impressions will get made in peoples minds but does that mean we should have bellydancers actively purporting this poor image!??

If you are then discussing the viewers lack of intelligence who's to say then that the viewers of this video do not then happen to be in a restaurant that has a bellydancer, have pre-formed 'expectations' of her- may engage in offensive behaviour that will upset the dancer but given their low intelligence they feel is appropriate with the images that they have been fed!

what a hoot that would be.

Look but dont touch??! Hah! Not according to this video!!!

But I'm glad missanime you have come in with a different opinion btw! Adds to the debate!

 

[lizaj]

Misanime is a Sadie fan,Bellyfester, so no doubt she wants to spring to her defence . When you have an idol I have no doubt they can do no wrong in your eyes and if they are raking in the wonga who cares ...

 

[bellyfester]

Piranhas do muddy the waters don't they and really who wants to swim in dirty polluted water.

As Liz would say "off wi dere eads!":lol:
~Mosaic

Mind you I hear Sadie is pretty fully booked for 2010. Just look at her website's workshop list for 2010! I still think she, and Kaya will have a big market even if us forum users that are offended boycott her. Less active hobbyists will know Sadies name at least but not the hoo haa that she has caused (or some even care??)!

 

[lizaj]

Piranhas do muddy the waters don't they and really who wants to swim in dirty polluted water.

As Liz would say "off wi dere eads!":lol:
~Mosaic

She'd have known how to deal with those who angered her!!!
My hero and namesake.......

 

[lizaj]

Mind you I hear Sadie is pretty fully booked for 2010. Just look at her website's workshop list for 2010! I still think she, and Kaya will have a big market even if us forum users that are offended boycott her. Less active hobbyists will know Sadies name at least but not the hoo haa that she has caused (or some even care??)!

I gather they (allegedly)delayed this video going on Youtube and stacked up their jobs.

But I think these ladies will find they can't have their cake and eat it.

But you're right there are impressable and not very bright people and wannabesosexee types who will still go to their events and buy their products. We all now there are students who in this just for a giggle and are no doubt of the same ilk. They have no respect for the origins and true quality of this dance.

Those two remind me of kids who misbehaved in school so they could get attention,any kind of attention. Ooo er aren't we scandelous. Aren't we naughty listen to us with the taxi driver, look at our saucy antics..aren't we shocking?I also had a teacher collegue who relished the fact she had been caught in compromising situations,who did anything to keep her profile high and get talked about...same thing.
Well fans you can keep 'em safely on your shores..here in Liverpool they'd be called "dirty mares".

 

[bellyfester]

Well fans you can keep 'em safely on your shores..here in Liverpool they'd be called "dirty mares".

Really!? They would fit right in on Mathew Street on a saturday night! If their bellydance careers go tits up (no pun intended) I'm sure they could get a dancing job in The Pleasure Rooms!

 

[lizaj]

Really!? They would fit right in on Mathew Street on a saturday night! If their bellydance careers go tits up (no pun intended) I'm sure they could get a dancing job in The Pleasure Rooms!

yeh they'd fit right in with the dirty mares. But having said that an adult night club is an adult venue ..Youtube is not and someone who represents themselves as a stripper/lap dancer/exotic dancer is honest and usually performs in a suitable venue. A bellydancer just might be expected " not to frighten the horses"!

While we have role models like these two "dirty mares" some young girls will think this is the way they supposed to behave and let "meat-heads" kick them around and therefore will be in harm's way.
I'm no puritan and I've seen all sorts under cover of darkness but there was a time when children's eyes were covered and they were allowed to be free from exploitation and danger.

 

[sultan]

The discussion of how men should not be allowed on stage with a belly dancer reminded me of this Fifi video:



This video obviously has its setting in a bedroom, but the element of it is fun flirtation. The guy in it was having a blast watching her tease him with charm. The rap video Sadie and Kaya performed in had none of Fifi's fun, charming, and playful personality. Yes, you CAN have an element of sensuality (like Fifi or Samia), but there is a limit.

This is a type of belly dance my Iranian friend would readily approve of: the dancer was fully clothed, was presumably with her husband, was done in the privacy of their home, and the dance moves were tame by comparison with some of the moves we see on other videos. As for public dancing, my friend would say that a dancer may wear skimpier costuming, may perform sexier moves, and put on a more (shall we say ...) exotic performance but only if there is exclusively a female audience.

By the way, did anyone notice how the majority of posters on youtube's rap-music video approved of the performances by the rap singer and the dancers?

Well, as they say, to each his/her own ...

 

[Emma_Williams]

My first reaction to this was blatantly what the fook a duck is this??? It just saddens me because you dont see other dancers ie ballet dancers etc being seen in this kind of light. The whole video gave the vibe of belly dancers are dirty mares (to quote lizaj) and that it is all just a sexual dance. Yes it can be sensual, hypnotic and let be honest it can be bloody damn sexy but most of it is not about this...its about being a woman, feeling expressive and empowered and wanting to entertain men AND WOMEN.
It really pi$$es me off....i am sick of defending belly dance and giving a hundred reasons why its nothing like stripping but then these stupid videos are made.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr

Now i am not against stripping far from it i have even been to a place before to see a friend dance but it just annoys me when people think what we do is stripping

 

[Farasha Hanem]

While we have role models like these two "dirty mares" some young girls will think this is the way they supposed to behave and let "meat-heads" kick them around and therefore will be in harm's way.
I'm no puritan and I've seen all sorts under cover of darkness but there was a time when children's eyes were covered and they were allowed to be free from exploitation and danger.

I couldn't rep you for this, Lizaj, but well put, dear friend. When we "put ourselves out there" we always need to keep in mind how our choices can influence others. I couldn't bear to think that I would cause some young girl to end up in an abusive relationship, or dead, because she thought it was okay to be in such a situation due to my influence.

Many aspects of our society have caused our children to lose their innocence far too young. Let children be children, and not be exposed to "adult situations."