Sadie and Kaya in an "erotic" music video....

lizaj

New member
Say what? Kama Sutra? *eyebrows raised* I'm would not have believed it was possible to combine those moves - bellydance and music together:lol::rolleyes::naghty:

Maybe someone should put Sadie and Kaya in touch with that couple on the South American tv show: the ones the used the women's bum as a sword holder. I think both are heading in the same artistic direction;)

Sita


Ou American friends will let us know.
Yeh maybe she could go in for "Toast-rack" belly-dance.:rolleyes:
 

da Sage

New member
No comment on the dance content in the rap video.

I'm just hoping no one chooses this as a "hip and edgy" musical choice for any haflas anytime soon. I don't like the music, the lyrics, or the delivery.

Or how about this song...has anyone seen a dancer use this music in a live event? There's a belly dancer in this video, too.

YouTube - The Dead Weather - "I Cut Like A Buffalo" Version II (Official Video)

This is the video that my clueless brother brought up over Christmas. Interesting combination of very-old-school fashion (aside from the Fauxlodias), and very modern music. I'm not sure it's a successful combination, and I'm not sure whether it helps or hurts society's view of our art in any way.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
NOTE TO SADIE AND KAYA..now that's sexy and it's bellydance!;)


Samia! Samia! Also notice the absence of Stupid Body Tricks. Legs visable, but kept close together like a lady instead of a burlesque sprawl. Floor work (table work?) does not include simulted sex.

I saw the infamous Kama Sutra of K&S- the whole dancing with slaves issue was tasteless, but it completely lost me about the oral sex presentation.
 

maria_harlequin

New member


I had to skip through it. Aside from the obvious, I also can't stand the bad production. I've seen student music videos that were much better.

I wonder what was their motive in doing something like this? Maybe they're friends with the rappers? Or friends with the producers? I can't think of a logical reason for why their involvement in something like that. They're already so well known that it can't be for fame unless they're moving onto more mainstream stuff...but seriously??? This looks like it's just gonna hurt their careers in the long run.
 

Miranda Phoenix

New member
I'm wondering, what's the perceptional difference between Sadie and Dina? Dina has a reputation for raunchiness in both her dance and in her personal life.

And aren't bellydancers, almost by definition, considered lewd in Arabic countries? (Or has this attitude begun to fade? I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on this...)

I'm not justifying, advocating or approving the behavior of either lady, just wondering if folks who dislike Sadie for sexually-charged performances feel the same way about Dina.
 

samiagamal

New member
I'm wondering, what's the perceptional difference between Sadie and Dina? Dina has a reputation for raunchiness in both her dance and in her personal life.

And aren't bellydancers, almost by definition, considered lewd in Arabic countries? (Or has this attitude begun to fade? I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on this...)

I'm not justifying, advocating or approving the behavior of either lady, just wondering if folks who dislike Sadie for sexually-charged performances feel the same way about Dina.

I'm sorry apples and oranges, Dina does not simulate oral sex on stage.
 

maria_harlequin

New member
I'm wondering, what's the perceptional difference between Sadie and Dina? Dina has a reputation for raunchiness in both her dance and in her personal life.

And aren't bellydancers, almost by definition, considered lewd in Arabic countries? (Or has this attitude begun to fade? I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on this...)

I'm not justifying, advocating or approving the behavior of either lady, just wondering if folks who dislike Sadie for sexually-charged performances feel the same way about Dina.

Dina's performances are sensual and in a way, sexual but NO WAY is it anything like what Sadie and Kaya did in that music video. That music video is pure, raunchy, simulated sex in the most degrading way.
 

Miranda Phoenix

New member
Ah, I wasn't referring to either the Rakkasah debacle or that video (especially since there's really no dancing, of any sort, in the video, only gyrating).

I was referring to the ladies' "regular" performances and their general reputations.

Seems to me every culture in, even, every art form, has it's fringe element - the "oh-my-gosh-she/he-didn't-just-do-that/wear that/say that" is a well-established attention grabber - it's not a behavior specific to any one people. *shrug*

But I'm thinking now this concept is off topic, since the OP is just about dishing on the video. So, back to your regularly scheduled show..... :D
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I think it was a fair question, Miranda. I also think the answer about comparing apples and oranges was fair. S&K have been deliberately building a reputation for overt eroticism (to give soft porn a more elegant name) for a long time. As far as I can tell, Sadie has more mainstream videos available than Kaya, but performances of questionable taste have still marred her reputation as a serious dancer.

Dina has a rep of being sexy and even raunchy, but with an element of humor that is completely lacking in S&K. I've seen her dance with Tito complete with butt pats, but it was done for laughs- there was no groping, no stroking, no heavy breathing, and certainly no simulated sex, either oral or otherwise. ( I thought it was pretty silly, but I'm told I simply don't understand Egyptian humor and that this sort of play is considered very funny in Egypt. Okay. Fair enough. It still ain't oral sex. :D)
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
I think it was a fair question, Miranda. I also think the answer about comparing apples and oranges was fair. S&K have been deliberately building a reputation for overt eroticism (to give soft porn a more elegant name) for a long time. As far as I can tell, Sadie has more mainstream videos available than Kaya, but performances of questionable taste have still marred her reputation as a serious dancer.

Dina has a rep of being sexy and even raunchy, but with an element of humor that is completely lacking in S&K. I've seen her dance with Tito complete with butt pats, but it was done for laughs- there was no groping, no stroking, no heavy breathing, and certainly no simulated sex, either oral or otherwise. ( I thought it was pretty silly, but I'm told I simply don't understand Egyptian humor and that this sort of play is considered very funny in Egypt. Okay. Fair enough. It still ain't oral sex. :D)

:clap: yes Shazzy..

I dont want to generalise about Egyptain humour but I have noticed family rolling around the floor at things that sailed past my ears because I laughed at it when I was 8 years old.

There is a context to 'naughty humour' in Egyptian society and it is similar to the British humour in the 1960's when 'Carry On' films were the rage and modesty was high on the social agenda. It can be a very powerful two fingered salute and an act of rebellion, but it does not work so well when exported.

People have to fully understand what it is and how it works within it's own context before removing it and applying it to their own.
 

lizaj

New member
I'm positive Egyptian dancers can be rauchy and tacky in their humour but they are not passing on messages about the (s)explotation of women nor of hackneyed images and not on pop videos aimed at young children.
 

Anthea Kawakib

New member
Thank you Lizaj.... sometimes I feel really outdated when I recall "feminism". Sure seems to've gotten lost these days...
(at least no one has brought up any "empowerment" rubbish in defense of this video)

It's so sad that far from women being liberated, we appear to have gone backwards. The sex-slaves/b*tches of gangtas,the WAG-wannabees,the Jordan-wanabees..sexual freedom..my rear end!!!:mad: It exploitaion.
And little girls grow up to dress like paedo-delights and thinking they have to stroke some man's ego...or whatever :rolleyes:instead of what we aimed for the freedom to chose...jobs,life-style,equal status in the home etc etc..political aims Wot no chance while bimbos like these make videos that think all little girls have think about is being desirable to some man who will pimp/protect or keep them in 2K handbags.

I know young dancers who idolise Sadie through her instructional videos ...well she don't impress me..pandering to the sleazier side of music instead of representing this dance in a classy and elegant way .
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
I was referring to the ladies' "regular" performances and their general reputations.

Sadie won BDUC or Wiggles, or one of the big contests in the early 2000s or late 90's, after previously placing but not winning, I believe. It was obvious then she was trying to make a name for herself as a very technically skilled dancer, and to get recognition for an eventual teacher career. I did not see her perform, but read reviews of her performances, and nobody accused her of being anything other than technically skilled.

Kaya I saw perform at the MEDINA competition in the early 2000s. Her skill was exquisite, lovely and technical dancing, but she was very off-putting to the audience. Many people were whispering "stripper" when she danced. Her costume was no more revealing than what they were wearing in the 70s (the split up to there skirt) but there was never any worry of wardrobe malfunctions or flashing the audience, and no boobage slipping, so that wasn't the issue.

It took me watching the contest dvd over and over again to see what I think was so off-putting about the dance. She took a rather wide-legged stance, which we're not used to seeing in Oriental. But more importantly (I think) is that she almost always stood in a position that faced the audience directly. Most Oriental dancers will spend the majority of the dance time at an oblique angle to the audience -- a 45 degree turn or so -- which in body language translates to a much more demure presentation than a dancer standing straight facing the audience, which I think we view as a more aggressive posture.

To me, the intense technical nature of her dance coupled with the wide-legged stance and frontality of the presentation suggested a much more aggressive woman, and in a leg-baring costume probably suggested a much more sexually-aggressive woman. Her expressions as she danced also seemed less "joy of dancing" and more "sexual ecstacy" -- what some people call porn faces -- and that probably didn't help. The audience picked up on all that and subconsciously decided her performance was more sexually-charged than the choreography would suggest.

Speaking to Kaya after the show (she was selling costumes) I found her to be a delightful person, very polite, kind, and actually much more demure than her on-stage personality would lead you to believe. She was not a person screaming "look at me look at me!!" and she was quite complimentary of the other contestants. Overall just a nice person.


Anyway, the Rakassah performance was probably a very bad idea based on the VENUE, but what really ticked people off about them was that they offered no signs of contrition and no apologies for their choice, and instead insinuated that the Rakassah organizers were over-reacting.

I think a simple, "We realize now that Rakassah was not the appropriate place to perform this piece," or "Yes, we should have alerted the organizers to the adult nature of the performance so they could schedule it accordingly or announce that people might want to take their kids out or whatever" would have gone a LONG way in allowing people to forgive and forget, but the general community was annoyed that the didn't seem to acknowledge they HAD done anything wrong. And THAT made people very very angry.

I'm not going to comment on the commercial dvds from HMC because I've never understood Mher's taste in dancers, and why some dancers that wouldn't get a second look elsewhere end up in his dvds, but whatever.


But Rakkasah is first and foremost a TRADE show, and the audience is pretty much going to be dance vendors and dancers. What happens at Rakkasah can pretty much stay at Rakkasah, so I can't really get my panties in a bunch over a performance that is not commercially available on video, and one that my clients and local community will never see.

HOWEVER, as we've been made well-aware on other threads, we do live in a global community and what you post to YOUTUBE or MTV will eventually make its way down to even my little cornfield, and I will have to explain myself and MY art form all over again because of the poor choices another dancer makes. I grow weary of doing that. That's what I DO get my panties bunched up about.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Kaya's "porn face"

I just found this:

YouTube - Kaya - Eshtaktillak - ???? - ????????

And it actually reminded me a LOT of a choreography a younger Suhaila did - costume and all.


But here's what's odd -- Suhaila's facial expressions don't come across nearly as sexually charged, and I THINK that's because she still had that sort of innocent kind of baby face expression.

Kaya has very strong features and there is just no way her face would ever come across as "innocent and baby-like."

So it's less agressive and less sexually charged if the dancer LOOKS innocent. Which I think is what the 90s Dina looked like -- an innocent kind of baby-faced sweet thing. So it's not nearly as unnerving to see baby-face Suhaila and baby-face Dina making expressions of sexual ecstacy than it is someone who does not have a baby face. I mean take a look at Sahar Hamdi -- she can be as vulgar as can be, but there's almost something cute about it because of baby-faced expression.

maybe?
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
I just found this:

YouTube - Kaya - Eshtaktillak - ???? - ????????

And it actually reminded me a LOT of a choreography a younger Suhaila did - costume and all.


But here's what's odd -- Suhaila's facial expressions don't come across nearly as sexually charged, and I THINK that's because she still had that sort of innocent kind of baby face expression.

Kaya has very strong features and there is just no way her face would ever come across as "innocent and baby-like."

So it's less agressive and less sexually charged if the dancer LOOKS innocent. Which I think is what the 90s Dina looked like -- an innocent kind of baby-faced sweet thing. So it's not nearly as unnerving to see baby-face Suhaila and baby-face Dina making expressions of sexual ecstacy than it is someone who does not have a baby face. I mean take a look at Sahar Hamdi -- she can be as vulgar as can be, but there's almost something cute about it because of baby-faced expression.

maybe?

Just took a look at the video Aziyade, I feel that emotion is missing from her dance and timing seems to be a bit off. But believe me, I would rather see her dance like that, than the hiphop/rap rubbish.
~Mosaic
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Just took a look at the video Aziyade, I feel that emotion is missing from her dance and timing seems to be a bit off. But believe me, I would rather see her dance like that, than the hiphop/rap rubbish.
~Mosaic

I agree - but do you agree that she does not have the baby-face, and so can't pull off that innocent sexiness that Dina and Suhaila could?
 

Sita

New member
I agree - but do you agree that she does not have the baby-face, and so can't pull off that innocent sexiness that Dina and Suhaila could?

I do, I also feel that she does not express that element of self-mockery or mischeviousness that invites the audience to share in the joke or experience. Instead her work comes across as self-absorbed, inviting the gaze but not really engaging with it in anything other than a overtly sexy way...
perhaps coyness, playfulness or warmth is what she lacks... ... something is definitley lacking. Her performance is more of a 'come-on' than a 'flirtation'.


Sita
 

Demelza Aradia

New member
Lizaj's comments on feminisim and sexual freedom among young women:

I agree with you entirely. I am in my early 20's and accompanied some of my younger cousins to an under 18's night and I was wearing the most clothes out of every girl there, and the only girl wearing trousers. And these girls were all about 15 - 18 and not one of them was wearing a skirt or shorts longer than mid thigh, and so make-upped up that I had no idea what age they are. When I go out, I make a point of covering up because I am not comfortable showing myself off as a sex object to men who are used to women who treat themselves as sex objects in the clubs. I do often feel out of place in these places because of how I choose not to dress. I get a lot of attention anyway because I am a good dancer, imagine the kind of attention I'd get if I was a good dancer AND i was wearing a low cut top and crotch skimming skirt. Crikey.
 
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