Question for the people who have been dancing for a long time

[Amulya]

Do you feel you missed something in your early learning years

Looking back at your first classes, do you think your teacher/teachers made you miss out on anything? Maybe something you didn't know at that time, but what you noticed when looking back.

For myself, I have missed out on some things that I think is a pity. My teachers were very good at teaching technique but never explained anything about the songs they used. My teachers used a lot of Farid el Attrache and other golden era songs but they never told anything about the music. I loved the music and still do. But that is something I really missed. They never explained anything about lyrics. They did teach about how to express yourself, but not according to the lyrics, it was more about how students themselves felt about music. Which is good, but you want something more.

And it was a shame that my teachers didn't know much about belly dance history and taught the strangest theories, even meanings to movements! I had to find out trough internet that it was all nonsense!
And imagine these teachers would travel to Turkey and Egypt every year (or more often) for the latest workshops to be up to date. I still wonder why they were teaching such weird theories

I really think it's important to give students a fair start. But I guess most teachers had students who were just taking classes for fun, so they probably found the extra information not necessary.

Curious to hear your stories!

 

[Daimona]

How long is "a long time"?

 

[Amulya]

Very clever question! Maybe what people themselves consider a long time. But at the other hand maybe if you haven't been dancing for a very long time and you still are thinking you missed out on something that could have helped at the beginning, those people would of course be welcome to comment on this as well.
I tried to change the title, the other one was too vague LOL, but the title change hasn't worked. Maybe one of the mods can make a good title for this one

 

[Mosaic]

My first teacher didn't explain anything about the music, I actually wonder looking back if she really knew anything. She always used ME music, but I didn't have a clue that you would use certain pieces for different styles, that came later so was quite an eye opener.

~Mosaic

PS: Tell me what you want for the title and I or one of the other forum mods can change it if you like

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Here's the other side of the issue -- I'm a teacher now, and over the years I've learned an awful lot that I want to share with my students. The problem is, how do you translate 10 years of learning into one hour of class each week? Ya know?

I try to talk about the singers and famous dancers as much as possible, if only to acquaint people with their names. But there is just only so much time in one session.

In 10 years, I've learned a lot, but not just from one source, and I certainly had to hear a lot of it over and over again before it sunk in. I don't blame my early teachers for that -- I think it's just part of the learning process.

 

[Prusilusken]

Hmmm...I didn't have my very first teacher for mor than about six months, and I still think of her fondly. She may not have been all that knowledgeable when it came to "real" bellydancing, but she was very serious and very honest with us.
Correct (healthy) posture, us keeping our movements from getting "mushy" (she was pretty nazi about that, hehe - and I am greatful for that) and looking our best while we did it was her main themes, I think.
Not at all a bad start.

However, my first six months or so in bellydancing is still kind of a blur...
I was is a bad place when I started bellydancing and only got my first sense of direction in life again, when Susanne (my "first first" teacher) told me that I had a knack for it and gave me a serious push in the right direction - as it very much turned out to be... Of course, she herself was very much lacking in knowledge when it came to "actual" oriental dances, but as I know now, that was only partly her fault.
She ushered me on to her own teacher, whom I usually think of as my first teacher, because this teacher had her own private bellydancing school in the capital and and whom I really think now should have known better...at least she could have given a damn!

What she taught - and didn't teach - that any bellydance student should be warned against or made aware of, that would make a VERY long list in deed!

The list very much includes basic knowledge concerning the ME music traditions and OD genres and where to go if we wanted to know more, but the main problem I have with her "teaching style" is the fact that she basically raised us to to believe that "She Knew Best".
There were no other schools or teachers or good sources of additional knowlede on the subject for the ones of us who even thought to ask, and so few of us even thought to question her motives, when she told us that there was really nothing to be found that she didn't already know and teach us.
Looking back, it seems like anyone who had the audacity to stray and start forming their own opinions on the matter or questioned her authority (the horror!) was silently frozen out and cut off like a bad limb, never to be heard from again.

She was a very charismatic person indeed.
She taught volumes to me and many many other new and defenseless belly dancer n00bs over the years - just not about oriental dances.

I know how this makes me sound, speaking so badly of another person, so I actually did consider quite a bit before posting, but I've decided that I find it too important not to post a warning for all new BDers. :think:

The one most important thing that I sorely missed from my "first" teacher was eager encouragement for her querulous students to seek out all kinds of OD related knowledge, an open and honest approach to questions asked, alternative sources found and debates opened by her students as well as her (or his, of course) peers.

 

[Pleasant dancer]

Here's the other side of the issue -- I'm a teacher now, and over the years I've learned an awful lot that I want to share with my students. The problem is, how do you translate 10 years of learning into one hour of class each week? Ya know?

I think the answer here is little, and often. For some students it will "go over their heads" because maybe that's not the reason they come to class, but there are those for whom those little extra snippets of info can mean a lot, especially if it inspires them to find out more.

I also think teachers should ask student more "what do you want to know?" I had a tendency not to do this, but then found it pays off when I actually ask the question. It's surprising what students come up with!

My very first teacher told us very little about the music, my second was a similar story. I came into this dance through the music, so I had to do my own research for info (fortunately I am quite tenacious!) :lol:

 

[Kashmir]

My first teacher had a background in (world) folkdance and flamenco as well as being a research scientist - so we didn't get too much whoo whoo just lots of solid building blocks.

What I later found was missing was an appreciation of how the body works and an understanding of how students (ie me) could benefit from input by trained sports physios in aspects such as improving flexibility and body alignment. Tapping me with her cane made me aware of alignment issues but she didn't have the background to point me in the direction that would help me fix the problems that could be fixed. The time I found out myself was a little late in my journey.

 

[Kashmir]

I also think teachers should ask student more "what do you want to know?" I had a tendency not to do this, but then found it pays off when I actually ask the question. It's surprising what students come up with!

Good to a point - but as a teacher you know things they need to know that they have no idea they need to know!

 

[Jane]

I'm hesitant to reply to this one, because I have a lot of anger issues left over from my first teacher. I don't want it to be a teacher bashing post, it's just going to come out that way. I don't think she is on here and I wouldn't hesitate to tell her any of these things if she was, so here goes.

My teacher started classic AmCab dancing in the early 70s . I stayed a student of hers from 1995-2001. There were no other teachers in the area. I thought we were learning real authentic belly dance because she never said there was any other kind than what we were doing (until ATS came along).

She taught us eight choreographies she had learned from workshops or videos. In class we bounced when we stretched with no warm up, then we ran through those same dances every class. We followed the bouncing butt and if you didn't pick it up, you were SOL. There was no feed back, guidance, or correction, even when you asked for it. We never talked about body mechanics, technique, ethics, costuming, music interpretation, or culture. We were told to do whatever we felt like and add any kind of dance movements we wanted to. We danced to a lot of George Abdo and similar music. Never danced to or heard of Om Kolsoum or any of the Egyptian classics.

We had one student recital at a nursing home during that time because we, the students, begged for one. Workshops would happen in neighboring towns and she would tell us about them after they were over.

The first time I knew something was off was when I was in Spokane on a trip and saw Aisha Azar dance at Azar's restaurant around 1997. It looks so different from what I was learning. I knew it was good dancing, but I didn't understand it. I got back home and asked my teacher. She had no answer. Around that same time, I got on line (found Shira's site too!) and started to learn more. I found out about the rest of the belly dance world out there. I started buying videos, books, and going to workshops and private lessons.

I'm working on learning Egyptian style dance and it feels like I'm starting all over again. In most ways I am.

I give my original teacher credit for teaching zills, American style veil, and floor-work very well. Despite all my complaints, I did learn to dance and I stayed enthusiastic for years, so it couldn't have been all bad. She is still teaching in my town.

 

[Aniseteph]

I've been dancing 5 or 6 years (eek!) and I still go to my first teacher - it sounds like I'm a total acolyte but IMO I just got lucky with the first class I went to. I'm still learning.

I can't think of much I feel I missed out on early on. We never did the massed class troupe thing, and at one stage I would probably have gone for that. But I'm very glad now that I went off to workshops and had to take my belly dance obsessions to the internet rather than being content with the drip feed of information in class. I think it's healthier than getting told chapter and verse by your teacher and relying on that.

 

[da Sage]

I think most teachers either teach exactly what they learned from their own teachers (which usually will not equal what was TAUGHT to them), or they teach exactly the way they WISH they had been taught.

Both are reactions (of a sort), and both approaches are sure to produce a few students who feel that something is missing...and may set out to teach differently.

Also, it's rare that a student will leave a teacher because she wants more of the same. If you change teachers at all, it's usually because you feel there's something missing. So we have students pooh-poohing their perfectly good A,B, and C that their first teacher taught them as "basics", and searching for X,Y, and Z... while students who learned X,Y, and Z first thing seek out instruction in A,B, and C!

No teacher can successfully teach *and* please all students. There's no one perfect class, no one perfect teacher.

 

[Amulya]

PS: Tell me what you want for the title and I or one of the other forum mods can change it if you like

Probably:
"Do you feel you missed out on something in your early learning years" or
"Did your first teachers let you miss out on something"
(I really find it hard to get a good title for this thread!)


I wanted to add, this tread is not meant for teacher bashing, but for what could have been better. I think it's something new students can learn from, as well as us teachers.

As a teacher I find it sometimes really hard that most students are not interested in too much background info. I'm not teaching at the moment, and this is one of the reasons.

I had 3 'first' teachers. the very first was only for half a year, so I can't remember much, except for that she was good at teaching technique and posture. That teacher (unfortunately I forgot her name) became ill and another took over. She was very very good technically, posture etc. Really good at explaining how to do the movements, teaching us the latest combination's she learned in workshops etc. But no background info. all she gave was this article with lots of nonsense in it and we took that for the truth.

Later when I got my 3rd teacher I found out my second was mainly schooled by the 3rd. My second used to be the replacement teacher for the 3rd whenever she was ill. So that's how she got into teaching. But they both had a different style (the 2nd due to her travels oversees).
Unfortunately my second teacher would never tell much about other teachers too, sometimes some gossip, but what would I understand of that? She also claimed there were not many teachers around (but there were lots!)
What I really liked was her Bella costume collection: a 10 costume collection! I bought one of them. She was very picky on costumes, so I think I got my costume snobbery from her :lol: She did give video nights, which was great. But she was very critical of other professional dancers, of who was good and who was not. So I often felt very insecure in her classes.

When I had my 3rd teacher, it was again: no proper info on music (and that teacher spoke arabic...), weird background info on Goddessy stuff. But in the meantime I found out about other teachers, workshops etc. And started understanding there was more than just a few styles. A Reda workshop taught me that (saidi)

Over the years I got to find out so much more of course and there was a teacher who used to give shows with many different dancing styles. Unfortunately a teacher with a nasty personality, so I only took a few classes from her.

But 17 years later now, I think I could have had more in those early years.

 

[Pleasant dancer]

Good to a point - but as a teacher you know things they need to know that they have no idea they need to know!

:lol:Very well put, I agree!! That applies to whatever subject you teach, I think. And only experience gives you that ability IMO.

 

[Pleasant dancer]

Yes, no teachers are perfect, and I think that's the reason I would encourage students to go to more than one, take extra workshops with other teachers, etc. Some teachers are particularly good at one thing, less so at another - I would advise that students take the best from each, and not be too ungenerous with their criticism of the poorer aspects.

I recognise a lot of things from all the posts on this topic - but at the end of the day, my first teachers taught me to dance, and whatever their limitations, I wouldn't have done it without them!

 

[Yshka]

I've been dancing 5 or 6 years (eek!) and I still go to my first teacher - it sounds like I'm a total acolyte but IMO I just got lucky with the first class I went to. I'm still learning.

Dear Aniseteph, this goes for me as well. I started with mine about 7 years ago and she is still my regular teacher. I can honestly say I have not missed out much over the years with her. She is very aware of body dynamics having been in dance and movement theatre, teaches good posture, healthy way of moving and is very, very good in teaching proper technique. Info on music, styles, ethics, costuming, props, backgrounds (sharing different theories and opening discussion about them) might have been a bit more in the beginning, but that is my taste and might not have been so for others (I want to know everything lol), since it was always there and has been improving, still is. She shares whatever she learns, used to bring in 'guest teachers' from the start, told us about workshops, festivals.

We've had a separate troupe for years for ladies who wanted to pursue extra training and performing, which I feel made something extra available to the needs of enthusiastic students.

My teacher had a strong technical basis in Lebanese, American and Turkish style, and this is what she taught us ofcourse, along with teaching style differences and teaching us about Egyptian style dances ever since her interest in that direction started growing and I myself am far more leaning towards Egyptian.
However, she's always been very honest also about the stuff she doesn't know and cannot do/teach, and even more so in pointing us in the direction of teachers who DO.

With her approach, she has turned out technically solid students who all have their own way or style of dancing. NOBODY dances exactly like her. I've started teaching through her school and am still doing so with her support and guidance, though I'm also deepening my knowledge of Egyptian style because that is where my heart lies.

As a teacher coming from my first teacher, I do notice what others stated above, the knowledge will be passed on in a different way through me than the way she taught. Have to think that one over more though.
I can also say that others I've studied with for more than one workshop or regular classes next to my first teacher, have been wonderful as well so far, but I hear of people who weren't so lucky.

My teacher's greatest passion has always been training others to become the best they can be. In that light I consider myself extremely lucky. And yes, I am also still learning.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

My teacher started classic AmCab dancing in the early 70s . I stayed a student of hers from 1995-2001. There were no other teachers in the area. I thought we were learning real authentic belly dance because she never said there was any other kind than what we were doing (until ATS came along).

I think this is quite common in the heartland of America, where we didn't have the direct exposure to true Arabic dancing. Egyptian style (as done in Egypt) didn't really hit BIG all over the US until the late 80s, it seems.

I was like you, I saw a video of Sohair Zaki and thought "What the heck am I learning? I want HER kind of bellydance!" It caused some bad blood between me and my then-teacher because I said I wanted to learn "authentic" bellydance, and that rubbed her the wrong way -- understandably. She considered what she was doing JUST as authentic.

 

[Prusilusken]

(I should add, that I still attend the same dance school now, after 10+ years, because that "first" teacher went to do something else. Her primary assistant took over and for a time basically kept teaching the same persian/turkish/ballet kind of bellydance thinking it was egyptian style.
She did it well, though! The first thing she did was starting to share flyers from other teatchers' workshops and all sorts of bellydance events near and far so we were made aware that "there not necessarily be dragons" outside our own little, confined space.
After the first season or two, as soon as she had the surplus, she frothingly threw herself "out there" to find her own personal path. She recently took Beata and Horacio Cifuentes' CATT, which is SO her natural element (she glows! *Zhagareet!*) and has also given her all new knowledge - and not least made her aware of all the things she didn't know she wanted to know!

While her "natural dance style" is miles away from my own, she still has a lot to teach me after all these years, and she is a great teacher - there's no doubt that I'll keep taking regular classes with her, even though I also take regular classes with another teacher now plus whatever workshops I can afford.)

da Sage: You are so right, very nice post! :clap:

Amulya, I was thinking that maybe you could put something like: "My first teacher: What I am grateful she taught me and what I wish I'd heard more about from her..." to keep it from being a pure bashing thread?

 

[Daimona]

I still have my notes from the first course I ever attended, and we did learn some about the background of the dance. Unfortunately much of the stuff we learned (i.e. filtered through my mind) seems to be bull**** compared to the knowledge I've gained over the years myself, but knowing some of her sources I won't blame her for some of the misconceptions she passed on.
To my knowledge, my first teacher doesn’t teach anymore, and despite some negative things, I sometimes miss her grounded style and intense energy - both on and off stage. She is truly one of a kind.

 

[Shanazel]

It is hard to judge what I might've missed in my first classes when there is so much to learn and a lifetime in which to learn it. Personally, I don't talk a lot about styles or music until my students have navigated their way into my continuing class and act like they want to know more than the small snips of information about music and style that I toss out in the beginning class. To throw movement and music dissertations and style differences all into a beginning class would be way too much information. Most beginners are struggling to isolate their shoulders from their hips and just get used to the sound of middle eastern music.