Feminism, Feminists (Spin Off on Sadie/Kaya Thread)

maylynn

New member
Just wanted to post about this too as I am quite excited about it. For those of you who remember feminism and for those of you (like me) who don't but want to learn more:

There's a great documentary on BBC iplayer right now called 'Women'. It's a 3-part series by filmmaker Vanessa Engle about feminism and its impact on women's lives today. Really, really good. The 1st episode is only on iplayer until today so try and catch it if you can!
 

Sita

New member
Just wanted to post about this too as I am quite excited about it. For those of you who remember feminism and for those of you (like me) who don't but want to learn more:

There's a great documentary on BBC iplayer right now called 'Women'. It's a 3-part series by filmmaker Vanessa Engle about feminism and its impact on women's lives today. Really, really good. The 1st episode is only on iplayer until today so try and catch it if you can!

Thank you, I've seen it advertised but was unsure of whether it would be good to watch or the usual cliched stuff that seems to emerge whenever feminism is mentioned on TV (normally it seems in an almost negative light??:confused:). But after you recommendation I shall definitely check it out :D:dance:

Thank You
love
Sita
 

karena

New member
There are very frustrating elements, for example a fixation on food preparation, feminists as being 'angry', and speaking to the feminists in their 20s parents about 'why on earth they turned out like this' (this is in the 3rd one) but overall it was a good series. :)
 

Kashmir

New member
Just wanted to post about this too as I am quite excited about it. For those of you who remember feminism and for those of you (like me) who don't but want to learn more:

There's a great documentary on BBC iplayer right now called 'Women'. It's a 3-part series by filmmaker Vanessa Engle about feminism and its impact on women's lives today. Really, really good. The 1st episode is only on iplayer until today so try and catch it if you can!
Many years ago I did a few varsity units in Feminist Studies. One thing that I still remember is how there is not a single "Feminism" but rather a range of different Feminist movements. So the philosophy that drives (drove?) a radical feminist, a spiritual feminist, a Marxist feminist, etc etc are all different. With mainstream treatments these often get pick and mixed to get the best story - or the silliest.

The other problem is how many young women today have no idea how things they take for granted now was different 20 or 30 years ago. I remember being told I would have got the job by they had no toilet facilities (fixed by installing a lock!) Or another time, with a record of working in a position of responsibility on a construction site for 3 years I would be unable to cope with an all male environment. Yes, it was great working with all those dyke electrians and welders ;)
 

missanime

New member
Many years ago I did a few varsity units in Feminist Studies. One thing that I still remember is how there is not a single "Feminism" but rather a range of different Feminist movements. So the philosophy that drives (drove?) a radical feminist, a spiritual feminist, a Marxist feminist, etc etc are all different. With mainstream treatments these often get pick and mixed to get the best story - or the silliest.

wow....interesting insight, thanks :)

The other problem is how many young women today have no idea how things they take for granted now was different 20 or 30 years ago. I remember being told I would have got the job by they had no toilet facilities (fixed by installing a lock!) Or another time, with a record of working in a position of responsibility on a construction site for 3 years I would be unable to cope with an all male environment. Yes, it was great working with all those dyke electrians and welders ;)

:lol::D
 

lizaj

New member
Kashmir what dismays me is this insistance that that activities that some young (but not exclusively so) women see as sexually liberating behaviour is in fact enabling exploitation.
Yes women thanks to feminism and family planning being facilitated and women gaining the vote and being able to change family and working lives, have a freedom to behave in a way many were afraid/unable to (but even so many did;))
What is happneing now is the belief that many pre-teens,young teens grow up with the idea that they have to be promiscuous. It's the norm to dress provocativey ( and then get annoyed when men get the wrong idae:rolleyes:),the norm that they will sleep with a guy on the first date, to go from partner to partner without any health or social problems.
Great things have come from feminism:familial rights,property rights,poilitcal clout,working conditions and also acceptance of family not perceived in the past as normal. Our society has so many pluses less homphobia,less racism as well as less sexism. We have some way to go on ageism and attitudes to body-shape.
Sadly we have a celebration of sleaze and violence (much of it directed towards women)I am sure that's not what feminists campaigned for :(
 

Aniseteph

New member
True - if there was a dungaree-clad bunch of feminists doing a bit of direct action and binning lads mags I would be right up there with them.

Thing is, these days I would be wanting to bin some women's magazines too, on pretty much the same lines.
 

karena

New member
:lol: Now its funny you should say that Aniseteph. As that's exactly what they are doing :D

Well not in dungarees. This is 2010

Did you watch the Activist epsiode of BBC's Women series. Episode 3. These women were featured.

 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Kashmir what dismays me is this insistance that that activities that some young (but not exclusively so) women see as sexually liberating behaviour is in fact enabling exploitation.

THANK YOU for saying that. It's absolutely the same on this side of the pond.

What is happneing now is the belief that many pre-teens,young teens grow up with the idea that they have to be promiscuous.

YES, and they don't even realize it. I've seen so many think that if you go on the pill, you HAVE to have sex.

There is a lot of backlash from this "sex is no big deal" attitude that seems to dominate in the young, even in my cornfield. YES, sex IS a big deal. It carries with it an emotional and psychological component that is A HUGE big deal, and not just for the young.

I'm not blaming the feminist movement, or the pill, or anything like that. I blame women. I blame women in power or authority who use that power and authority to get attention. What kind of message does nonsense like Snake Charma send to young women?

The fact that this same crap gets trotted out as an example of something that is "liberating" for women is simply appalling. It's bad enough that they make bellydancers look bad. But seriously, they are just feeding the machine that makes a 12-year old thinks she has to give "Bill Clinton" sex to her boyfriend and all his friends in order to be an "empowered" woman.

It enrages me. I'm not joking.
 

karena

New member
Aziyade - do you really just blame women? Or just women as part of the problem?

I think in the whole agency/structure side of things, there's an awful lot of structure that means I wouldn't place the blame at the doors of women exclusively.
 

lizaj

New member
Aziyade - do you really just blame women? Or just women as part of the problem?

I think in the whole agency/structure side of things, there's an awful lot of structure that means I wouldn't place the blame at the doors of women exclusively.

I suspect that women have been manipulated into the situation we have to day. I can see very few advantages to the so-called "sexual liberation" unless you're a man!On TV last night, I watched pole dance instructors talking a load of bo$$ocks about how prancing around in high heeled tart shoes and ars$e revealing pants "empowers women" Crapola...equal rights in a family and to property, the vote,equal pay and respect empower us not the right to please(dismay) drooling (or embarassed) guys by looking like a hooker.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Aziyade - do you really just blame women? Or just women as part of the problem?

I think in the whole agency/structure side of things, there's an awful lot of structure that means I wouldn't place the blame at the doors of women exclusively.

Not women in general -- but women who act as authority figures or role models and who would rather make a quick buck or get attention than BE a role model. Like this example.

I don't place the blame ENTIRELY on them. It just enrages me to see celebrities acting all kinds of disgusting stupid, and getting front page press for it. Kids can't help but think that's how you're supposed to act. Then years later, when THEY have kids, they want to bemoan the same behavior in the younger set. (Madonna!!!)
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
I suspect that women have been manipulated into the situation we have to day. I can see very few advantages to the so-called "sexual liberation" unless you're a man!On TV last night, I watched pole dance instructors talking a load of bo$$ocks about how prancing around in high heeled tart shoes and ars$e revealing pants "empowers women" Crapola...equal rights in a family and to property, the vote,equal pay and respect empower us not the right to please(dismay) drooling (or embarassed) guys by looking like a hooker.


In the 90s, Madonna wrote her "Sex" book.
I looked at it. Read what few words were in it. Gave it back.

I can honestly say it did nothing to empower or liberate me.
 

lizaj

New member
...and before anyone says we are OT..oh no we are not! It's displays like this exhibition in the OP that perpetuate the view that women are empty headed numpties only good for sha&&ing and beating-up.:(
 

Kashmir

New member
I'm not blaming the feminist movement, or the pill, or anything like that. I blame women. I blame women in power or authority who use that power and authority to get attention. What kind of message does nonsense like Snake Charma send to young women?

The fact that this same crap gets trotted out as an example of something that is "liberating" for women is simply appalling.
You have to ask "who gains?" Yes, some women get more attention (for a while) - but the other winners are men and people selling crap to young women. I missed the 60s but was around in the 70s when any woman who didn't have sex as soon as a man got an erection was given the lecture on not being uptight. Even other women got into the act. But now there is an extra layer of commerce. Women buy sex toys, lingerie, makeup, cosmetic surgery, alcohol etc. It's big business.

I had a 12 year old in class recently who felt an outsider as she was the only one in her class that didn't wear tons of make-up and sexy clothes. She was torn because she didn't want the clothes or airhead culture but she did want to be part of the group. Her solution was to join the soccer team :)
 

Aniseteph

New member
You have to ask "who gains?" Yes, some women get more attention (for a while) - but the other winners are men and people selling crap to young women. I missed the 60s but was around in the 70s when any woman who didn't have sex as soon as a man got an erection was given the lecture on not being uptight. Even other women got into the act. But now there is an extra layer of commerce. Women buy sex toys, lingerie, makeup, cosmetic surgery, alcohol etc. It's big business.

I had a 12 year old in class recently who felt an outsider as she was the only one in her class that didn't wear tons of make-up and sexy clothes. She was torn because she didn't want the clothes or airhead culture but she did want to be part of the group. Her solution was to join the soccer team :)

Yay, good for her. It must be tougher than ever to find your own path these days.

The commercialisation is what I meant about not just wanting to bin the lads mags (but woohoo! good for those women in Tesco :dance:) - you look at the mags aimed at women these days and they are full of it too, only with a veneer of "it's Liberating!!". I agree, it isn't just other women, it's a huge industry pushing it along - people trying to make you want crap that you don't need.

And if women aren't buying enough of the crap, they put it in grey or black packaging and sell it to the guys too. :rolleyes: :(
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
The commercialisation is what I meant about not just wanting to bin the lads mags (but woohoo! good for those women in Tesco :dance:) - you look at the mags aimed at women these days and they are full of it too, only with a veneer of "it's Liberating!!". I agree, it isn't just other women, it's a huge industry pushing it along - people trying to make you want crap that you don't need.

And if women aren't buying enough of the crap, they put it in grey or black packaging and sell it to the guys too. :rolleyes: :(


Have you guys read "The Beauty Myth" by Naomi Wolf? It's very interesting. Before WWII, ladies magazines relied on ads selling household stuff -- soap, vacuums, etc. But then they found they had to switch to cosmetics ads, and convince all of us women that we were ugly and needed to be "fixed" by cosmetics and surgery, etc -- whatever they could sell.

Last year I posted a link to an article about people who had plastic surgery on their "nether parts" to make those parts more attractive to our mates. Seriously, how sad is that? How low is your self-esteem when you feel the need to get your labia reformed because you fear your man might leave you?
 

karena

New member
Reminds me of this :lol:



There's a flurry of books out in the UK at the moment about the issues mentioned in this thread. Not sure if it is the same in the USA?
 
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