Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33
  1. #11
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
    Posts
    2,028
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Dear Aisha,
    I do not think it is a case of arrogance or disrespect on our side. I can only say that I strongly suspect the organisers of this event didn't have a clue what MED/bellydance is about.
    Besides, our troupe came to the event expecting a totally different audience.
    Our costuming was chosen on what the event organisors told us the audience would be like. When we got there, the audience appeared to be mostly Arabs, which for us came as a surprise.
    Our costuming IMO looked very nice for a troupe performance for the audience we were expecting to dance for, but I think the main reason the Arabs didn't like it was because it looked a bit tribal'ish and not quite what is expeced by Arabs in an Oriental dance performance.
    Ever since we have been dressing in ways appropriate for all audiences, with an eye on looking positively representative of MED.

    What you say further in your post I very much agree with. Six years of experience at least is definitely a great place to start. We see so much crappy dancers and teachers out there today it just makes me angry!
    It's so sad to see so many uneducated and below-average dancers misrepresent the dance and screwing up the sincerity and truthfullness in dance we are trying to portray.

    Iris

  2. #12
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
    Posts
    2,028
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Originally posted by Aniseteph:
    What can you do if you are part of a group and have to go along with someone else's costume choices?
    This was just the point, we carefully chose our costuming to what the event organisors told us the audience would be like. We were misinformed.
    Usually our outfits fit the occasion like they should. Also, our other performances there that day went well and without problems.

  3. #13
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest USA
    Posts
    5,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default How far etc.

    Dear Yshka,
    I am not quite sure that I understand about the costuming issue...should costuming not bew chosen to enhance the dances that are being performed and not on something having to do with thne audience?? Costuming is very much about enhancing a character, or a dance, in the case of dancing. It is not about dressing for an audience as much as it is about dressing to bring out the very best in the dance that is being performed...???
    I am a professionak theatrical costumer as well as a dancer. In learning about how to costume, one learns that costuming is a tool for the performer to bring out the best in the character that is being playedofr in the case of costuming an entire production, what best enhances that production. In dance this means that whatever will best help the dancer to do the dance and portray it truthfully, is what should be worn, regardless of the audience. For example, if we are dancing Tunisan, we do not wear Ghawazi. There is, of course much more room for personal taste in belly dance costumes, but even then, should the costume not reflect the style of dance that is being performed? I do not mean to sound like a BOB, but I am confused...????
    Regards,
    A'isha

  4. #14
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
    Posts
    2,028
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Originally Posted by Aisha Azar:
    I am not quite sure that I understand about the costuming issue...should costuming not bew chosen to enhance the dances that are being performed and not on something having to do with thne audience?? Costuming is very much about enhancing a character, or a dance, in the case of dancing. It is not about dressing for an audience as much as it is about dressing to bring out the very best in the dance that is being performed...???
    Dear Aisha you are right, you're not confused, I think I should have explained differently. Ofcourse costuming must enhance the dance and bring out the best in the dance, but I think it just has to be appropriate for the audience as well, with this I mean not offending and certainly appropriate for the type of dance, I think I just used the wrong words.
    I think we simply cannot wear tribal'ish outfits in front of an arab audience, as you cannot do the half-naked-too-revealing costume thing in front of families with little kids involved.. this might sound a bit weird, but I don't know how to explain it any other way.
    I don't wish to put my troupe up for discussion so I will try not to go into as many details, I just used them as example to clarify my point about costuming being important in portraying the dance as truthfully as we can, and yes, it certainly must enhance the dance an bring out the best in the dancer and the performance.

    In this case the costuming might have been a bit experimental, but it went pretty well with the performance in our opinion. The audience however, disagreed, and I just think it is about the fact that it was not quite the sort of costuming you would expect in an Oriental dance performance in front of Arabs. But then again we weren;t expecting an Arab audience.

    I hope this clears it up a bit, I hope you know what I mean now, if not please tell me and I'll try to explain again, and no, you're not a BOB for that, you're in fact a very knowledgeable person and I agree with you very much on what you say in your previous post about costuming. It just came out all wrong.

    Iris
    Last edited by Yshka; 07-18-2006 at 11:57 PM.

  5. #15
    Member Hadassah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yshka - you bring up a very good point. Costuming can be very offensive to Arabs. You never wear cabaret outdoors in the middle east - at least in Egypt! You could get shot, or arrested! When we perform(and being that we perform Egyptian-style raqs sharki), we wear conservative ankle-length dresses trimmed with coins and a hipscarf to match, or a traditional beledi or saidi(assuit) tunic. We nearly always do folkloric for the general public.

    However, it is entirely appropriate to wear the cabaret bedleh indoors at a party, restaurant gig, or stage show, and we do. But never outdoors. It's tacky, and extremely offensive to arabs, thus the cries of "haram!" your troupe members experienced.

    BOB point - if an instructor cannot instruct her students in the cultural mores of ME dance, perhaps she should rethink her role. My teacher has spent extensive time in the ME, knows the culture and people, and honors them through her art. Perhaps it is snobbery on my part, but to me it's akin to wearing blackface for an afro-american audience if you ignore the moralities and ethics of your arab audience. Don't expect them to sit back and take it. rant complete.

  6. #16
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
    Posts
    2,028
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Thanks Hadassah. That is exactly what I mean.
    I think also that the costuming was just a bit too experimental for an Arab audience, I think that was the point, I talked to some Arab friends of mine who were there and they said something of that sort too.
    As for your BOB point, that is absolutely not snobbish. I think you are right.
    We shouldn't have tried it, it wasn't recieved the way we expected it to be, but then again my teacher does really know her stuff, so I truly believe she was not the one to blame, after all, we have a great say in costuming for our troupe as well, and we went for it too, thinking it would be suitable for the occasion, (at the same time, and this I think was also wrong in this case, as to what I've heard from some friends, trying out a different style of costuming instead of original bedlah)..
    And if you know me I'm BOB as hell when it comes to cultural aspects and what to think of on grounds of culture in a performance lol.

    Mistake I guess, we've at least learned from that bigtime
    Last edited by Yshka; 07-19-2006 at 11:31 AM.

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest USA
    Posts
    5,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default etc.

    Dear Yshka,
    Thank you for clearing up the situation. I have found that Arabs at weddings, etc, are not as uptight about the costuming being brief as are Americans and other westerners, no matter who is in the audience. They generally tend to be more free about discussing sex in front of the kids and grandmothers, too...
    Regards,
    A'isha

  8. #18
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
    Posts
    2,028
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Dear Aisha, I see your point. I've never had problems like that with Arab audiences before either, It was just a weird situation.
    Usually the Arabs here aren't very uptight about the costuming issue either, but I guess there are exceptions in this as well.

    Iris

  9. #19
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,024
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadassah View Post
    However, it is entirely appropriate to wear the cabaret bedleh indoors at a party, restaurant gig, or stage show, and we do. But never outdoors. It's tacky, and extremely offensive to arabs, thus the cries of "haram!" your troupe members experienced.
    I had never heard this. This is why I love this forum, I am always learning something new. I know that it is correct for dancers to always be fully covered, except during their performance. But I assumed that bedleh was perfectly appropriate for any non-folkloric/non-tribal performance, indoors or outdoors.

    Is the rule the same for tribal short cholis that show the belly, or different?

    And is this a general audience rule, or just in case there are arabs present?

  10. #20
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
    Posts
    2,028
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Originally Posted byda Sage:
    I had never heard this. This is why I love this forum, I am always learning something new. I know that it is correct for dancers to always be fully covered, except during their performance. But I assumed that bedleh was perfectly appropriate for any non-folkloric/non-tribal performance, indoors or outdoors.
    Me neither! I knew it was appropriate to cover up too but I didn't know about the outdoors thing. It's good to have all these lovely dancers from all over the place share their knowledge in this cool forum .

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •