When to give credit...

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Miss Vega, You could say to the Instructor, something like, I am honoured that you choreography shows my influence and I would appreciate and be honoured to be mentioned especially on youtube as the one who inspired your movement choices in some areas of the choreo or words to that effect, kind of pointed but 'lighthearted'. With her reply to you it is very obvious that your influence is very much in that piece.
~Mosaic
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
Miss Vega, You could say to the Instructor, something like, I am honoured that you choreography shows my influence and I would appreciate and be honoured to be mentioned especially on youtube as the one who inspired your movement choices in some areas of the choreo or words to that effect, kind of pointed but 'lighthearted'. With her reply to you it is very obvious that your influence is very much in that piece.
~Mosaic

I think because it is people you know and another teacher.. then this is a bit naughty. It is the same music and movements developed into a choreography so it is reasonable to say something.

I do think however, that if we teach choreography we need to be clear at the start of the class what we expect from people if they use it as a whole or in large chunks...

Now, youtube is another story. If we upload a clip onto youtube then we should expect the possibility that someone somewhere may re-create this in some shape or form (if it is good).

Someone said to me recently whom I had never met before.. I tried to copy your dance in your youtube clip and it was much harder than it looks... whether or not they would mention that if they performed it is another matter and something I have to accept.
 

onela

New member
I watched their video the whole way through, and youtube suggested I watch your original Jump in the Line vid.
 

PracticalDancer

New member
My family is Jamaican:) And you're right, the umi is different in caribbean dance because of the pelvic posturing. In Egyptian style belly dance you umi while maintaining the pelvic tuck (which keeps the hip flexors compressed, which will limit movement if you are an internal dancer, which I am, big fan of using obliques, lower abs and hip flexors...not a fan of the glute method LOL). In a caribbean umi the pelvis slides through 3 postures of tuck, neutral, and "ldown" (butt up) which allows for a wider range of movement and more freedom to the hip flexors and obliques.

On a side note I am not a fan of keeping the pelvis tucked, even when I dance egyptian, trained eyes will notice my pelvis is typically in neutral and sliding through the 3 postures. But that is another story for another day lol.

And thanks to everyone is regards to the ;)skirts. They are just full circle skirts with a slit on eitehr side. I wear two skirts, line up te slits and pull up the side of the underneath skirt and tuck it in and voila! Hip flooflies:cool:

Warning: I am going to veer off topic and discuss the skirts and the umi some more. Mods, slap my hand and spin off a new thread if needed. In my defense, I can claim that I am now trying to give credit to the handling of the umi -- are you not buying it? oh well.

Anyway, so I have been seriously contemplating the umi for the last few days. I see what you are saying; but, of course I went and analyzed some more. ;)

I think that there are two ways most dancers treat the umi. To use Suzanna DelVecchio's analogy, the hips are a bowl and most dancers get the umi by pretending to move water within the bowl.

But, some dancers keep the bowl flat and make a move equivalent to whisking 3 tablespoons of oil into 2 tablespoons of vinegar in a 1 gallon bowl -- they will make small, tight movements only in the very bottom center of the bowl, with little vertical displacement of the hips. I will now always think of this a "vinagrette umi."

On the other hand, some dancers are whisking a lot more in their bowl, making bigger movements that bring the hips up and down while making the circle, as if "tossing the salad" (please, this is a cooking analogy and NOT a sexual reference!) inside the one gallon bowl. I guess that makes this "salad umi." Now, on 99% of these dancers, you can tell if they are right handed or left, in that one side of the bowl will rise more than the other side -- this side effectively "starts" and controls the movement.

You, m'dear are an exception. What I see here is the large movement, but without the one-side-dominant effect. Your umi is more even. Having not mastered this, I am still mulling it over. Perhaps it is because you think of it as 3 points and not 4? Is your dominant move what you call "ldown" (butt up)? If so, that may explain why it feels "latin" to me.:think:

In the meantime, I am now craving all sorts of full chiffon skirts with slits that I can layer. Thank you for ensuring yours come all the way to the floor -- it makes the movement soooooo pretty! (runs upstairs to paw the piles of chiffon waiting to be crafted into costumes . . . .)

Regards,

Anala
 

maria_harlequin

New member
I really don't understand why so many people don't make it a point to reference their inspiration. I think it's just plain awkward and not to mention rude. This reminds me of a controversial case awhile ago concerning a rather eminent published digital artist that took other artists' images, stuck them together in a collage of sorts, painted over that, and claimed that it was hers.

People should take a page out of Ms. Rachel Brice's book...in her new Serpentine DVD, she's always referencing dancers and saying "this combo was inspired by so and so..." while she's teaching.
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
I've been told to always give credit when using combinations taught by others. Especially when they are obviously similar by whole chunks of time (20 seconds is a huge chuck of dance time). Even when I've been giving permission to use before hand, it is just common politeness to give credit.

It would not hurt much to write the instructor and just ask that next time your combo's are giving credit or mention.

If worse comes to worse you can get your choreographs copyrighted by the Canadian government. My instructor andrea did that for all of her choreographed dances. If anyone does use combos or parts of her dance without permission, and if she wanted to, she could take them to court over it. Not that she has anyway but it gives you legality to asking for credit.

It is similar to music, do you want to spend all the time writing it only to have some other person steal chunks of it for themselves and not ask permission or give credit. They get their music copyrighted so that they can take them to court to determine if it is similar enough or not. Though that is the far extreme.
 
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onela

New member
Hey Cheart happy 500th post :) Who's your teacher? Andrea who? I'm fascinated by the concept of copyrighting choreography. Does she blog, and has she blogged about it? Or otherwise led any workshops or seminars about it?
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
500th post? LOL oh would you look at that. :)

My first instructor was Andrea Kitta. She does blog but not so much anymore, she never blogged about this topic but mentioned it a few times during my classes with her. If I can remember correctly she had the chorogoraphy sent to CIPO.

CIPO is an agency associated with Industry Canada responsible for the administration of intellectual property in Canada. This site provides basic information about Canada’s copyright law and systems, including a section of FAQs which may be of interest to choreographers.

Here is a website from the Ontario goverment with links to various groups for dance legal and copyrighting. Dance > Legal & Copyrights
 

MissVega

New member
ARG!!!! Was just on facebook and recall how I said she actually said this on the comments on the video on facebook

I actually commented on the video and wrote:
" Really cute! Nice job ladies, although I must say that parts of that looked very familiar... hmmmmmm lol"

And the choreographer/studio owner replied:
" totally the eau de cassandra, the hair toss.. taught literally as "pretend you are cassandra" *lol* that whole combo is "cassandra" cept our bums dont pop as well."


She deleted all the comments on the video!!! WTF???? I think if I end up crossing paths with her I am confronting her...I'm so unimpressed right now. ugh I thought we were friends:(

Cheart thanks for sharing your info on the topic of copyrighting:) Don't know if it is something I will try with but it is good know that there are options out there:)
 

PracticalDancer

New member
breathe --- Facebook is prone to sudden drops of content. One moment my friends' posts are there, the next one FB seems to "forget" them.

And, someone could have posted something nasty . . . so if she DID delete it, it may not be because of you.

breathe . . .
 

MissVega

New member
breathe --- Facebook is prone to sudden drops of content. One moment my friends' posts are there, the next one FB seems to "forget" them.

And, someone could have posted something nasty . . . so if she DID delete it, it may not be because of you.

breathe . . .

You're absolutely right!:)
I have calmed down, my freak out was compounded as I went to have a brownie that I baked the other day and found they were all gone. Which was my own fault, I should know by now that once my brother gets wind of the brownies, they never last long:rolleyes: But now I have no chocolate to sooth me! lol
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
I threw in the towel on Facebook - they just have too many ifs and too many snafus that just kept rubbing me the wrong way.
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
That is very unprofessional behavior on her part! Deleting all comments just makes it look like she is trying to hid something now.

Comments don't actually delete themselves on their own. I've never had comments just disappear unless they have been deleted. They might not appear but if they vanish they reappear later. However it was only 1 or 2 but not every comment to a picture, video, or page.

Cheart thanks for sharing your info on the topic of copyrighting:) Don't know if it is something I will try with but it is good know that there are options out there:)

Welcome. I haven't done it cause I'm not that big at choreographing yet but apparently professional dancers here have done it. Though it is mostly those that do ballet, etc.
 

onela

New member
Welcome. I haven't done it cause I'm not that big at choreographing yet but apparently professional dancers here have done it. Though it is mostly those that do ballet, etc.

I have had the most hilarious conversation with a "long lost" relative (well, the black sheep that we don't see often, anyway) about copyright and dance- he didn't believe me that somebody can copyright choregraphy and he also told me that if you draw/write something and send it registered mail to yourself and don't open it until you're in your big copyright battle in a court of law, that protects your copyright (LOL- haven't heard that one since I used to post crappy Sailor Moon fanart on deviantart where preteens were fighting over "pose theft"!).
 
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