Student Attrition

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Hi Everyone, I have a question for the experienced teachers on the forum,but certainly students are free to answer as well. What do you think is the major reason students quit dance lessons?
My teacher and I often have this discussion, to help us guage the effectiveness of our teaching often we realize it has a lot to do with the students themselves. We teach a 12 week curriculum and about the 4th or 5th week students begin to drop off.
Here are some of our observations:
1)It's time to pay again for the next session of classes. Many of our students can't afford to pay for 12 weeks up front.
2)It's a lot harder than they thought. Many of our students are non-dancers, and it's about this time they are incorporating arm movements in addition to hip moves.
3)Low self-esteem/confidence. The student is constantly disparaging themselves even when they are doing well.
4) Real life interrupts dance classes.
For our brand new beginners, we focus more on posture(really hard for them), basic moves and "listening" to the music than on the performance aspect.
Do you guys have anything else to add?
Yasmine

 

[teela]

you are getting it from a students point of view. I'm approaching it from changing teachers rather than actually quitting my dancing.
1. I got tired of class being of only learning a routine for the student show. You didn't move up until after the student show if you learned the routine well enough.
2. An intermediate class went from the teacher sharing things she'd learned at workshops to a hi, we'll only do choreographies and we'll perform them. If you were unable to perform, you sort of got put off to the side and did it but not as part of the group.
3. I finally got a teacher who had studied in Egypt and knew the style i wanted and I moved out of state.
For right now, the only reason i am unable to take regular lessons is my remote location and I try to take lessons in the summer when i am near a teacher.
My daughters quit because their interest in dance changed focus to something else, and for one, her work schedule interfered. I think transportation also became an issue.

 

[Gabi]

I've seen this in every class I started *and finished I might add * - the people I've seen quite have been divided into reasonable pauses i.e., changes in schedule, moving and having health or pressing stuff come up unexpected.

Then there are the ones who join class to be "sexy" they find out quickly that everyone else is there to sweat and learn in a decidedly unglamorous manner and is NOT into it to be sexy except for an added perk. Those students will find another way to fit their needs and aren't usually interested in dance.

The next and unfortunate group are those that really want to learn but feel they are in so far above their head they will never get it. These could probably really benefit from a lot of feedback from other students and the teacher in terms of how you have to be able to go through feeling like a klutz or worse, especially if you don't already have a basic dance or movement background.

A lot of times it takes months of taking class with the same group before anyone actually has a real conversation with each other; mostly because we are all into squeezing as much as possible into that hour and then in many cases the next class is already piling in.

I've tried passing my own e-mail around to students and making sign up lists for contact left around so there is no pressure.

 

[Yshka]

Student's point of view again.

I think I've seen most people quit because of financial reasons. At some point people can't afford to take classes anymore and leave.

Then there's also health problems, and in only a case or two it's self-esteem issues.
So far we've never had anyone in our school who came there to be 'sexy'. People get along really nicely, the atmosphere is very friendly and relaxed.

 

[Ludmilla]

Hi Yasmine -- Just when I thought the top had been gotten to, another incredibly interesting thread!!!
And may I give a few comments to add to really good comments from others, above, about why student attrition occurs in classes.

Gabi and maybe Teela said it right in that some new beginners just find that dance while looking glamorous on stage and on TV etc consists of coordination, thought, physical demands and learning (like learning a language - just takes practice and real dedication) that they had not bargained for in the instant age of wanting to be a pro in the first lesson....

I'd like to speak as a sorta intermediate student, from this perspective, and this is just what our city has (different places are different -- in the Bay area or areas where there are probably tons of classes to choose from , things would surely be different than in a small or mid size city).
1. THe teacher takes any and all comers to the class and anyone can jump in at any time during the session and then the teacher often goes back to the very beginning for the benefit of the new person(s) and the others who have practiced hard to get beyond the basics get bored and frustrated, (other side of the coin - to make $ a teacher wants lots of students but if this is a serious study you can't go back in the lessons every few weeks or so and lose the momentum and interest for those who have been w/ the class for a long time.) That's one thing that would make me leave a class or look for another one -- not respecting different levels of student - beginner, int and advanced as most other dance styles, ballet have and stick to so classes have a somewhat measured pace to aspire to and achieve -- I am NOT saying I resent new beginners - not at all - it teaches me how much I have learned and let's me help someone else. BUT if it's all the time and you feel you are doing the same thing over and over the $$ of the class, finally you will question whether it makes sense to stay there....
2. The teacher plays favorites. I have left at least one teacher because her "fave" and sometimes the "fave" is a fairly beginning student not as skilled as I feel I am and Whoa, this new fave (some of you know what I am talking about) suddenly gets to work w/ the teacher outside of class -- gets performance gigs etc and they are the best of friends - the rest of us are chopped liver??
Even if it isn't one "fave" there is a situation in nearly every class where I am where the teacher has a troupe whose members are all; in the class and they get to perform - the rest of us are on our own and unless were to dig up a troupe on our own (and choreo etc pieces), are out in the cold. Again, it's up to them if they want to do that but that creates a two-tier student rank as those students who are in "the troupe" and those who may never be and are not included. Again,-- pls understand I am talking about people no more skilled -- they have performed a lot more tho and that is Why they are more skilled in performing, yes -- I'm just saying maybe the troupe rehearsals, discussions etc should be handled in a class or meeting SEPARATE from the class so that this type of division does not get emphasized and demoralize some students --

3. My last comment to keep this w/in reason -- Um.......(Gee this one was really important and haaa my mind just went blank!!) -- May I come back later if I think what it was?

Yasmine - I imagine these issues may not be at all what you have and could be the student was not that motivated etc (and wanted to try BD lessons but it "isn't their thing" etc - you have to be a bit obsessed to really become good at it, I feel, and becomes part of your life AND your loved ones/family need to be supportive and understanding about it --
Please understand I am sharing som eof this (which is actually hard to talk about - I don't want to sound whiny etc but some teachers seem to have no idea what effect their actions have on very motivated students (who are not the fave, in the troupe, etc) -- Ludy -

 

[Ludmilla]

.........NOt sure if this was the #3 item I was going to say above - but just another comment comes to mind - a pet peeve for me is classes that are -- or become -- really big. The intimacy and cameraderie/congeniality w/ other students melts away if you are bumping into eachother and have no where to dance with several feet around you on all sides to practice in, get a piece of mirror etc. That can make even the best teacher/class a frustrating and nerve wracking experience esp after stresses of work of the day etc -- you go to class to get away from that....
I know we don't have private classes but a class with at least enough space for all the students that are there (and for me 6 - 14 students in the class is good and suitable -- seas of people - I just can't learn and someone ends up in the very back and probably can't hear, either.) -

Yasimine - Sorry if I have gone way overboard but I have experienced all 3 of these problems w/ finding a class where I felt comfortable and happy. (some people may love this so much they can put up w/ all sorts of inconveniences or challenges but I need some level of convenience and welcome feeling, to learn. :think: Perhaps you are asking about issues that have nothing at all to do w/ these factors I have said -- But thank you very much for giving me chance to think about why I stick w/ some classes and some just have more minusses than plusses...........I'm sure yours are fantastic and wonderful and I wish I could join today!!!!!

 

[Aniseteph]

Hi Yasmine - what an interesting question...

Well I can only reply as a student, but I expect the 4-5 week drop out is people just deciding it isn't for them, for all the reasons you suggest. I'm amazed at the number of people who'll pay quite a lot of money for 2 terms of classes and quit after a few of weeks (so what did they expect a Spanish course to involve when they enrolled? duh! :wall: ). Though I can understand people finding bellydance to be not what they expected - people come along with very different preconceptions and reasons they want to learn. So there's probably some serious adjustment going on in those first weeks. Later drop outs are a different issue IMO.

Seeing other posts now...

Agree about classes not progressing - very frustrating. This is the only reason I ever dropped out of a pre-paid course...

Favourites - haven't experienced this one yet, very unprofessional... . We're all paying for the tuition and the teacher's friendships and other projects are irrelevant and should be left out of it.

Choreographies - good point Teela. It gets very boring for those who aren't in the show to practise as much as those who are in it need/want to. And having to "pass" the show choreography to progress, how depressing is that? Can't the teacher see who in the class is not quite ready to move to the next level then?

A lot of times it takes months of taking class with the same group before anyone actually has a real conversation with each other...

OMG I thought that was just us reserved English types!

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Thank you so much Ladies for responding! I appreciate all of your input and every word makes perfect sense. Teela, I personally don't agree with the push on choreography for "shows" and If I were a student in those classes I would quit too. Ludmilla, playing favorites in class is like playing favorites with your children:naghty: , I'd quit that class quick,fast and in a hurry!
Each time I start a new class, I remember what it was like the first ime I stepped inside a classroom
As a teacher, it's hard sometimes to draw the fine line between gentle encouragement on an individual basis and over-correcting a student constantly. Sometimes it's better to allow the student time to "get' the move and offer genuine praise at the effort.
So keep the comments coming, I think we can all learn from each others perspective.
Yasmine

 

[Zurah]

From what I’ve seen, it’s usually a combination of lack of money and real interest. The atmosphere in class is pleasant and supportive, and our teacher is very good, but I live in a college town and lessons are kind of expensive for many here. This year the class seems to have shrunk in half since October. On the other hand, the instructor is teaching more classes this year, so it could be that people have spread out among the different classes.

 

[Mouse]

I've noticed classes here get smaller in the middle of winter when the weather is horrible and again in the height of summer when its really hot.

 

[Moon]

In my own class, there were always the students that come (almost) every week, and those that come once a month or even less (what a waste of money!) Usually the latter drop out faster, because they can't combine it with their job, or they have little children, or it's just not what they had expected.
However, the number of students dropped tremendously when our teacher got ill and we got a substitute. We still have the substitute teacher now and I think she is a nice and good teacher as well, but when she just took over the class, we found ourselves doing more of the same movements during class (because I think it's really hard to take over a class full of people you don't know and you have to find out at which level they are) and I think a lot of people didn't like that. Furthermore, short after she took over the class she tought us a choreography for a student performance. Many students found it a boring dance and didn't want to participate, but we practiced it most of the time during class so those people also didn't come back anymore.

 

[Mariyam]

I guess I can consider myself a "class-dropper" :redface: In the last year I unfortunately had to drop my classes one after the other for various reasons... I had 2 weekly classes and a monthly class.

1- Dropped from one weekly class because I really didn't like the teacher. It felt more like a dance aerobics class than bellydance class Too bad I had paid for the full 12 lessons, but oh well...

2- Dropped from my other weekly class when I became completely overworked with my part-time school and my full-time job. I really couldn't fit it in, I was about to have a nervous breakdown!

3- And I finally had to quit my monthly classes because on top of not having time, I have to put dancing aside for a while for medical (and personal) reasons

So there you have it, the point of view from a "bellydance school drop-out"

 

[sparklyraven]

My friend and I just started teaching 2 classes together this fall and 1 class is a 6 week deal with 5 students and we had 100% retention which has blown me away. The other class is a 12 week deal and we had a limit of 20 but the school putting us together can't do math and we ended up with 25. My girlfriend was great with it and I was a bit overwhelmed. I admit I was kinda relieved when 3 of them just flat out never showed up again (2 of those sent us an email saying why they were gone : life happens kinda thing) and then 2 folks had medical issues, and then 1 woman got a job that interfered and plans to come back in the spring (we see her a lot outside of class so that actually might happen) and another gal broke her tailbone, and we have 3-4 women with small babies and they just show up when they can. We try to design it so people can drop in whenever but 1 problem we are already running into is over 12 weeks you can get a lot more sophisticated than you can over 6 weeks so while our humble class tends to be more focused on doing a few moves really well rather than plowing through a set set of moves (so someone missing a class or 2 doesn't miss a ton of stuff), it is getting a bit harder for those who come here and there. But we have well over 50% retention in that class which is suprising the spam out of me. When I was apprentice teaching, we'd start out with 13 people and maybe 5 would finish IF we were lucky. (needless to say I learned as much how NOT to teach a class as I learned how to teach a class) We have been just teaching along and give a little extra help to the students who come here and there and carry on with our lessons and that way those who come every week don't get bored but those who come when they can aren't getting completely plowed over by all the new stuff.
With the last bit of folks left in the big class we're teaching a very short choreography and they can perform it or not but we asked if they wanted to go that route and they all said 'yes' which I thought was very cool so we did. That seems to have brought those who stayed together more. but I know that won't be the same with every class. Its difficult to try to reach everyone so in the spring we are limiting our class to 15 and of course the way the community schools does math we'll end up with more but it won't be 25 unless they forgot how to read too .

aaah the lessons we are learning.

 

[sstacy123]

class

From a student-

Yeah I was surprised the first class I think there was 50 something students by the end of the 5/6 weeks maybe 20, 30...none of the people I had made friends with was at the last two classes.

the short reason: akwardness and embarassment

the long reason: For me there was a few times I felt so awkward and embarassed that I wanted to leave (I have only danced in public twice in my life and that was my European vacation and alcohol assisted) But at the same time that is what made me want to take the class in the first place, I knew I'd be embarassed and feel awkward but I feel if I work through that at the end it will be something I can be proud of...

The short reason: conflicting schedule

The long reason: The other problem was I've been planning on taking a Spanish class and it will be on Wednesday nights (not available any other time and I've waited a year to take it) The beginner's dance class is on Tuesday and Intermediate is Wednesdays...I thought I could take the beginners's a second time but that would only cary me till February and it would be May before my Spanish class would be over with...luckily I have found another teacher who teaches on Saturdays. I really do hate leaving my instructor, perhaps after May I can return back to her, perhaps take both classes?

My only problem with the class itself was not enough feedback. I hate to go home to practice a move and not know if I'm practicing it right or not...but that wasn't enough to make me quit.

 

[gwinity]

My class started with 20 students at the start of this term (September-ish), and gradually it's been whittled away to a regular group of about 6, with a couple of others coming sporadically.

The reasons that I can think of:

~ It's coming into summer here, so the longer days and warmer weather might have something to do with it (one hot night we had a grand total of three in the class!).
~A few of the girls who no longer attend were high school students, so it's likely that with exams and the end of school they won't be back.
~Two girls moved to a Thursday night class because it suited their schedule better.
~ And the rest? Who knows... esteem issues, it wasn't instant-sexy, other commitments came up... could be anything...

 

[Safran]

I just have to agree with all the posts above But I would like to turn attention to some aspects:

* I agree with Aniseteph, you can't expect all beginners stick after their first classes. Firstly, they may decide it is really not for them. Secondly, real life may interfere, and as the dance hasn't yet become a priority (they haven't established a personal connection with it), it is easy for them to leave it aside. I know it from my own experience - if I start something, then have to miss out a class or two, it is very hard and uncomfortable to continue.

* the social factor that Ludmilla emphasised, is very important. Sometimes you just don't click with people. Sometimes it takes longer to get used to them. If you've established personal relationships with the other participants, then you are more likely to return. Maybe you can come up with something to help that process along?

* There are general trends (less students in the spring and before Christmas, more after New Years - New Years resolutions ), but attendance also depends on who makes up most of your class. Students around here tend to start disappearing some time mid-semester, because this is when they actually have to start working at the uni And there is not much you can do about that.

I just came up with an idea... Some of the teachers on this forum have advised to have in one class a dance practise + 5-10 minutes of talking. Maybe you can talk about the background of dance on some classes, but on the others, you could discuss what the students are expecting or how do they feel about the dance. It should also be a bit of a team-builder then. What do you think?

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Hi Maariku, I agree with your ideas and have used some of them. For example around the 4th week, the classes are becoming more challenging esp. for the rhythm impaired student. I let them know that I will never judge them as harshly as they judge themselves. When I see the tension build in class, I stop and tell them to take some cleansing breaths and relax I also have the students perform moves with their eyes closed so they can "feel"the signals their bodies are telling them.
You also right about seasonal changes-students generally do not have the time to come to class especially during mid-terms/finals. When I taught at a university a couple of years ago, this was very apparent. And as much as I want the students to fall in love with Oriental dance, some just don't make that emotional committment, either to themselves or to other people in the classroom. Thanks for your comments.
Yasmine

 

[Aniseteph]

... the social factor that Ludmilla emphasised, is very important. Sometimes you just don't click with people. Sometimes it takes longer to get used to them. If you've established personal relationships with the other participants, then you are more likely to return. Maybe you can come up with something to help that process along?

YES! Our teacher did a sort of beginners-guide-to-haflas session once we had a few moves under our shimmy-belts (so it probably wouldn't work for very new beginners). She stressed that it wasn't about perfect technique, it was just fun, then she had us dancing in a circle to some "easy" music and we took turns to go into the middle and do a few moves, then choose another dancer and bring her in to the centre, dance together for a bit, then leave her to take over, and so on. OK we all felt a bit silly and self-conscious to start with, but because everyone had to do it and we were all encouraging each other it was great fun, and we actually started talking to each other. :clap:

Two other things I was going to say before, that I find encouraging to think about in moments of dance gloom.
1. dance for your students. Sit them down and show them a little performance made up of just the moves you have taught... and tell them You Can Do THIS! It is VERY easy to get discouraged if you spend all the class trying to emulate your teacher and seeing how rubbish you look by comparison in the mirror.
2. I once had to sit a class out (moral 1, do your calf stretches properly), so I got to see the rest of the class dancing, instead of concentrating on following the teacher. Everyone looked great! Moral 2 - you probably look better than you think. As a beginner I'd have been nervous about "performing" for my fellow students, but if half the class sits out while the other practises with extra mirror space...

A xxx

 

[Shanazel]

I teach, or have taught, classes in belly dance, creative writing, and needlework, and have experienced attrition in all of them at roughly the same rate. Talking to other teachers in these and different disciplines, I find they have the same experience of students drifting away.

At the beginning of each class, I ask my students why they signed up and what they hope to achieve. The answers often make clear which students are likely to wander away. The ones who proclaim, "I heard it was a great workout!!" are probably not going to be happy with the slow repetition needed to perfect a movement. The ones who say, "I want to learn to dance in time for (fill in the event) next month" are probably not expecting it to be as hard as it turns out to be, and the ones who say, "Oh, I just wanted to try something new" will probably be ready for the next new thing within a few weeks. I get at least a couple of these folks every semester, and they usually don't stay with it.

 

[sstacy123]

student attrition

If I had to get up in front of class and dance as a beginner THAT would make me not want to come back. It can be ackward enough anyway. But honestly I hope it isn't ugly to feel this way but I'm glad that every Tom, Dick, and Harry, (what's the female equivalent?) doesn't continue with the dance. I guess it has to do with the fantasy that the dancer is "exotic" and if every Tom, Dick, and Harry did it, it would take away from that, it wouldn't be as special. Allthough if you're teaching and trying to make money I could understand how that could be different.