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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by da Sage View Post
    I do think that it is the *teacher's* business to tell them they should study/practice more, and give constructive examples of what needs to be worked on, before they go pro. I think it's also a teacher's business to tell a student if they *are* good enough to perform in non-recital venues.



    Yes...some people don't appreciate good dancing nearly as much as they appreciate hot, scantily clad bodies.
    I can certainly understand that the teacher would feel mortified to have bad students out there if they tell people they learned from her but the bottom line is she has no control over what they do unless she can manage to reach them in a mentor like form.

    The scantily clad bodies get old as fast as bad dance does for performers and viewers - that aspect will take care of itself, I'd predict

  2. #12
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar View Post
    Please take comfort in the knowledge that students who begin their 'pro' careers too early (without enough training), often DO get hired...but often fizzle out quickly when their skills don't match their beauty. Most clients who are hiring dancers for their weddings and parties do NOT want a young "Belly Bunny". They want a seasoned performer who can make their party a hit...not an embarassment.
    Ditto with Middle Eastern restaurants. They want entertainers who will make their customers feel at home and create a fun atmosphere...not one who will inhibit them with bad dancing and inexperience.
    The worst part is that these poor misguided girls don't know that they impression they leave these customers now will follow them for a looooong loooong time...you have only one chance to make a good 1st impression!
    Gia


    Dear Gia and Group,
    I wish I could say that my experience was the same as above, but what I notice is that skill in the dance often has little to do with who is working in the clubs, who gets hired to dance at parties etc. There may be several reasons for this. At partes, non-dancing people often want scantily clad dancers who are balls of fluff and come in and do their 5-10 minute thing, collect their money and vanish in the night. The idea is to be a fun and cute person who will play parlor tricks more than it is to be a serious dancer. I hardly ever have done belly-gram work for this reason. I hated it!
    In the ethnic clubs, there is often a young Arab/Greek/ Turkish clientele and they want to see young, sexy looking dancers and also do not necessarily care about the dance technique as much as say, an older person or a dance enthusiast. The owners cater to what the young guys with the money want to see. Thus, youth and looks count for a lot in this type of venue. Occasionally as dancer who is both sexy and talented comes along and then people will rave about her. I spent years in the clubs in Portland, Oregon and in Seattle Washington and youth and good looks counts bunches.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  3. #13
    V.I.P. Moon's Avatar
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    Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, I don't want to speak with my teacher because I think she should be able to stop them, I just want to know for sure that she didn't tell them it is a good idea and if she might help them with a choreography or give them additional lessons or something like that, I want that for the rest of the group too. I just want to convince myself that she cares as much about the dance as I, and most of the people here, do.
    As little respect as I have for these girls, I would still feel kind of sorry for them if they get laughed at when they perform. Though I'm affraid they will perform at places where the audience only cares about looks

  4. #14
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Caring etc.

    Dear Moon,
    One thing to remember is that you can learn from a person even if her/his dance ethic is not the same as yours, if she is presenting material that is of value to you. It is not unethical on your part to learn from anyone. It is only unethical if you allow yourself to become a person who does not honor the dance by your own actions. In your case, that is probably not a real issue!
    Regards,
    A'isha

  5. #15
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
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    ... I just want to know for sure that she didn't tell them it is a good idea and if she might help them with a choreography or give them additional lessons or something like that, I want that for the rest of the group too....
    Well if they want private lessons and choreos they are entitled to ask (and pay) - what they aren't entitled to is to have their interests affect the class. If the teacher does that she's got no business sense! Upsetting her other students AND losing out on the extra income...

    If you want to know what she thinks about going professional, naming no names , just say you're interested in her opinion and ask. Why not? I don't think you can find out what she said to them specifically - it'd be unethical for her to discuss it with anyone else IMO, and they may have just heard what they wanted to hear!

    Yes it's infuriating - that's the difficult bit of having integrity coupled with humility about one's own efforts. Take a deep breath and let it pass, and concentrate on your own journey.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Gia al Qamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Dear Gia and Group,
    I wish I could say that my experience was the same as above, but what I notice is that skill in the dance often has little to do with who is working in the clubs, who gets hired to dance at parties etc. A'isha
    Maybe I should re-state that the better restaurants & venues in MY neck of the woods, (the NY Metro area) to which I was referring (not hookah clubs, bars or places that cater to the 20-something crowd) wouldn't hire inexperienced youngsters. These upscale restaurants don't want young chickies who are all looks and no talent to chase away their paying customers. Even in my early dance-days, I didn't work at the low-end dives where young naive dancers are given half their tips, no pay and a plate of hummuous before being shown the door.
    There are dozens upon dozens of inexperienced young students posing as pro 'dancers' in these parts. They're not getting the parties, the restaurant work or the weddings...they are getting the low paying 'slum' jobs...Maybe it's a regional difference.
    Gia

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Dance, etc.

    Dear Gia,
    I have seen this in dives as well as nice places in California, Oregon, Washington and in Canada. I does not mean there are no good dancers getting jobs; only that there are plenty of dancers working on looks alone because the average person hiring a dancer for a party has no idea what good or bad dance even is. As for clubs, not sure about back east, but the crowd who have the time, energy and funds to spend in the clubs out here are usually under 30, and/or have rich parents back in the Middle East, usually going to school. They do not have a fmaily to feed or a job to get to in the morning and can spend the $$ drinking and hanging out with their friends. I have met many a very well connected prince in some of these places! On occasion, you will find an older man and his grown up family out for the evening, but usually not in even the higher class Middle Eastern lounges out west. It usually the guys. Restaurants are SOMETIMES different. There is one in Vancouver BC, where I saw mostly family clientele. The restaurant where I worked for 12 years had mostly family clientele and mostly decent dancers. The last time I checked, they had a Bimbo dancer now, too. The highest class martini bar in town has one decent dancer that I know of. Everyone else is strictly for looks. It is run by a middle aged Arab family.
    I am pleased to hear it is different where you are!
    Regards,
    A'isha

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gia al Qamar's Avatar
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    VERY Different where I am Aisha...and...I guess that was my point...tho it took a few meandering posts on my behalf to get here...my point is that anybody's experience...be it personal or regional...will differ.
    Gia

  9. #19
    V.I.P. chryssanthi sahar's Avatar
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    I discovered this thread a little late, but I'd like to tell also my opinion to the subject:
    a) In the 20 years I've been dancing professionally, I've seen all kind of bad dancers performing at different places. Some years ago I got angry about those chicks who dared to perform without having the qualities and the knowledge for it. Now I only laugh, because I know that they are not going to perform for long. Even if restaurant owners and other people who hire belly dancers want to save money or are more interested in the looks than in the quality of dance, the audience is not stupid at the end. There are enough people in the audience who can see if a belly dancer is good or bad. And, believe me, a bad belly dancer doesn't make it for long time. So dear Moon, don't worry about what will happen with your fellow students. If they are not good enough to perform in public, they are not going to be hired often enough and they will give up sooner or later.
    b) As about the role of the teacher: I believe that the teacher should get involved in such a matter. I may have a very severe attitude, but if any of my students who is not good enough to perform in public would start doing this, I would first tell her very clearly, that she is not so far and she should study further before starting performing. If she wouldn't listen to me, I would exclude her from my classes. To my opinion students should respect their teachers, so I don't want students who wouldn't respect me. Fortunately, I've never had to exclude a student from a class 'till now, and I hope I never will .

    P.S. By the way, when I talk of "performing in public", I mean performing for money. Of course I don't have anything against students who would perform at the birthday party of their best friend etc.
    Last edited by chryssanthi sahar; 12-04-2006 at 02:55 AM.

  10. #20
    V.I.P. Lydia's Avatar
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    Default what should i do

    Hi Moon ,i was thinking i did mail on this treat before? but i did not find it back...i think you should not talk to anyone about it....in your class,....the girls will find out hopefully sooner than later that they are not good enough..... and your teacher perhaps she thinks like that aswell,and she will not tell them what she realy thinks ...perhaps she dont want to upset them...and i agree fully with you ,but you have to be carefull perhaps like you said they take it wrong and think you are just jalouse....it is a problem in the dance world also the big problem is that there are plenty of agents and restaurants or clubs that give them jobs,they think its cheap and dont care about how good it is,so i think its those people that are at fould the ones that give them jobs....so i think you just try to avoid to talk to them ,because it will backfire at you in a wrong way.....take care and you just keep on track there are plenty people that realy appriciate the way you think and deal with your way of thinking about dancing ....Lydia

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