Sexual education

[lizaj]

I know I made a throw away remarkable but I was actually involved in sexual education at a High School. From that expericence we often do not teach either in the correct way nor the correct context for students. Sometimes we teach too late when the horse has bolted, sometimes we overload kids with information.
Sexual education is best done by parents but that's an ideal world and so there has to be back up. For me it is about sexual health and about relationships. One is on the surface very easy to teach..the other complex. However I have sat with a tutor group while the school nurse taught them about sexual health and the way she did it was so clinical as to be unnerving and I had very upset kids to deal with after that. I complained to the pastoral head and she never taught it again.
I really believe that sexual education should be taught in small group situations where they kids are encouraged to ask questions that concern them not get information thrown at them willy-nilly lol
So often we are doing damage limitation.
Sometimes we are giving information to young people not ready for it.

Now there is less if no emphasis on morals via religion, it's important to work out the needs of young people and not impose what we think they want.

It was easy when I was young...you were a slut if you "did it" before marriage and outside of marriage and chanced hellfire and getting diseased or in that home down the road for girls and babies. Nevertheless I was possibly one of just a few handful of friends who didn't "have to get married"...the advice I hung on to was "If you can't be good, be careful"...and succeeded

Now we are telling kids it's OK, it's got so complicated.

 

[Elfie]

Well, I'm proof positive of what lack of sex ed can do. I not only had a baby a couple weeks before my 17th birthday, I had another at 18 and another at 19. All because I had no idea that... ahem... "pulling out" was not a way to keep from getting pregnant. I was also very lax about my birth control pills after I had my first child. I just didn't know. I thought I was going to be okay.... I took my pill yesterday so it's okay to have sex today... it doesn't matter that I forgot to take it three times last week... I took it yesterday!

My children though... they've known the sexual process, dangers, and the reproductive process since they were old enough to ask. Which was about 4 for my daughter and about 6 for my boys. Kids are maturing younger and younger. My daughter, who is now 9, has already started her menses, and my oldest son, who is 11 now, looks like a 14 year old... and acts like one too. He's nearly as tall as I am, has arm pit hair, a little facial hair, his voice is changing... and this started almost a year ago. I've caught him watching porn on the internet. A thing which, now, I'd rather prevent by buying him a magazine. If he's going to do it, I'd rather control what he sees. There's so much on the net... bestiality, hardcore stuff even adults shouldn't see... and I just don't want him to think that stuff is normal. I'd rather go out and purchase him the standard Playboy myself than him find something horrible on the net that is, to say the least, going to damage his outlook on sex. All boys look at porn, there are no exceptions anymore, that is just the way it is. Whether it's the national geographic version (meaning tribal women wearing their normal everyday wear... or lack thereof) or Porn Hub dot com, they will find it. It's the only true rule of the internet... #34... there is porn of it, to be sure. My son discovered porn by searching up Harry Potter + Hermione Granger. It just can't be avoided anymore. My solution is control rather than banning. Because let us face the proverbial music, prohibition never got anyone anywhere.

That said, it's up to the parents to teach their children of such things. The scientific side can come from the school environment, sure, but it is up to parents to teach their children to respect sex. I think that is what is missing from many of the younger generations. No one respects sex anymore... it is given that if you're in a relationship for longer than six months, you're having intercourse. Sex has extremes... freestyle lacksadasical "I want it all attitude" or totally taboo. This is what I think is wrong about how many parents and teachers handle talks about sex. It's made to seem dirty or not a big deal. If you (general you) teach a child to respect sex for what it is... a natural part of life that should be considered and thought about carefully, and planned for when you (also general you) decide to go ahead with it, with full disclosure on the risk factors as well as the pleasurable aspects, then trust the child to make an informed decision (and yes, kids are capable of doing that... and yes hormones factor in, but if said child always has a condom in their pocketbook or wallet when they start thinking about sex then... *shrug*) then you are preparing them.

I was never prepared. I was told about my monthlies and that you shouldn't have sex until you were married. That's it. I had great parents, but they weren't perfect. I learned from that mistake. I may not be able to stop my kids from having sex in their teens... but I can give them the tools they need to do so safely and know exactly what they are doing.

 

[Amulya]

There were things the teachers told in school about sex that freaked me out, and later it appeared to be nothing weird, but I was easily grossed out by anything sexual. If they would have told more, I might have ended up being a nun LOL.
So I agree with Elfie that respect towards sex is important. There seems to be such a weird attitude towards it indeed.
Isn't it possible for parents to put their computer settings in such a way that kids have no access to p*rn? Or put the computer in the middle of the living room? Wouldn't that help? I have heard of little boys who were totally traumatized by what they saw on internet.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Isn't it possible for parents to put their computer settings in such a way that kids have no access to p*rn? Or put the computer in the middle of the living room? Wouldn't that help?

I have a friend who complains that she can't control what her 6-year-old watches on the TV in her bedroom.

:think:

My suggestion was simply to REMOVE the freaking TV from the 6-year-old's BEDROOM!!!!!

But she can't do that because it would be mean. Whatever.


Seriously, I realize I'm ancient, but in our house we had ONE television. You know what that meant? TV watching was a family event. You did it as a family.

Little kids with laptops? Crazy. Put the computer at a desk in the main family area, where everyone can see it, and arrange the desk so users have proper posture and don't risk RSIs.


I'm very pro sex-ed at an early age, but with a focus on RESPECTING your body. You know where I actually got the best psychological sex-ed? When I was 13, starting catechism at CHURCH. LOL. We had a guest pastor give a course on values clarification, where we learned that it was WRONG for a boy to pressure you to have sex, and it was wrong to use sex as a weapon or a bribe to get what you want.

There are also kids killing themselves over their sexual orientation, or their SUSPECTED orientation. I wish we could mandate that schools offer an outreach program to gay kids (or those who think they might be gay) to help them deal with the additional pressures gay (or perceived gay) teens face. In a perfect world, I guess.

 

[Elfie]

There were things the teachers told in school about sex that freaked me out, and later it appeared to be nothing weird, but I was easily grossed out by anything sexual. If they would have told more, I might have ended up being a nun LOL.
So I agree with Elfie that respect towards sex is important. There seems to be such a weird attitude towards it indeed.
Isn't it possible for parents to put their computer settings in such a way that kids have no access to p*rn? Or put the computer in the middle of the living room? Wouldn't that help? I have heard of little boys who were totally traumatized by what they saw on internet.

Oh yes, it does help. However, I'm not always at home and my son is very tech savvy. More so than I am, apparently. He can do stuff with my pc that I never dreamed of. Babysitters couldn't give crap one what a kid is doing as long as they're being quiet. That was, actually, why my son found the stuff he found. I went out after cigarettes, came back home and found my kid watching some god-awful stuff dealing with the aforementioned Harry Potter characters. I lock my pc now when I leave home because I apparently can't trust anyone to watch my kids as well as I do and my son can apparently turn off my parent guards.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

my son can apparently turn off my parent guards.

It takes us two hours to install cybersitter software, and it takes them 10 minutes to break it.

Kids are kinda scary that way - lol.

 

[Elfie]

LOL! Yes, they are. I had to put the "lock" password on my computer as a word with over 26 letters just to keep him from breaking it. I made sure it was something he wouldn't be able to spell until he was in college. Then again, this is MY son... a child who, at 8 years old, told his uncle he had an epihpany... and used it in correct context, so... I'll probably have to change that password next year hehe!

 

[da Sage]

LOL! Yes, they are. I had to put the "lock" password on my computer as a word with over 26 letters just to keep him from breaking it. I made sure it was something he wouldn't be able to spell until he was in college. Then again, this is MY son... a child who, at 8 years old, told his uncle he had an epihpany... and used it in correct context, so... I'll probably have to change that password next year hehe!

A hint on passwords: the next time you change yours, you might want to try mixing up words, initials, numbers. It might be harder for your little hacker to guess than a real word.

 

[Nejmeh]

elfie`s story sort of reminds me of my grandma who kept insisting she didn`t know why she didn`t have more babies after 10 life ones and at least 4 still births. Later we found out the stop was simultaniously with her visit to the doctor and him giving her mysterious pills she had to take every day.


Amulya`s story then again reminds me of our second grade education(13/14). The subject was condoms and the biology teacher wanted to teach how to put them on. So she pulled out a baseball bat. Seriously, a baseball bat!:shok:
Perhaps that explains why as a whole our class was ready to wait:lol:

 

[da Sage]

Amulya`s story then again reminds me of our second grade education(13/14). The subject was condoms and the biology teacher wanted to teach how to put them on. So she pulled out a baseball bat. Seriously, a baseball bat!:shok:
Perhaps that explains why as a whole our class was ready to wait:lol:

Awesome! :lol:

 

[Ariadne]

My understanding is that "abstinence only" DOES delay average first intercourse by 6 months as compared to "this is how it works", but that "this is how it works" teenagers are more likely to use protection - and thus sexually transmitted disease are reduced.

It looks like that depends on how it's done.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/education/03abstinence.html

“For the first time, there is strong evidence that an abstinence-only intervention can help very young teens delay sex and reduce their recent sexual activity as well. Importantly, the study also shows that this particular abstinence-only program did not reduce condom use among the young teens who did have sex.”

 

[da Sage]

It looks like that depends on how it's done.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/education/03abstinence.html

Here they are talking about a study targeting African-American kids probably aged 10-13 in a non-school-day program. Also, it says that the course does NOT advocate delaying sex until marriage. These are significant differences from one-size-fits-all-ages "stay pure until marriage or else you are DIRTY" abstinence-only programs.

I would agree that the VAST majority of kids that age should not be having sex of any kind (unless you count masturbation). Also, most of them will not yet have the crazy hormones that kick in later that make teenagers really want to have sex. I theorize that many kids to have sex that early are responding to external pressures, rather than innate biological/hormonal motivations. So this kind of program makes sense for kids at this "gateway" age, but I don't think it's complete enough for older teens

I would probably support this kind of program in my local schools, but *only* if it were followed up by a program that focuses on condom use as well as being selective about sex partners.

 

[Ariadne]

Here they are talking about a study targeting African-American kids probably aged 10-13 in a non-school-day program. Also, it says that the course does NOT advocate delaying sex until marriage. These are significant differences from one-size-fits-all-ages "stay pure until marriage or else you are DIRTY" abstinence-only programs.

That was kinda my point. It is a science based rather then a religious based program.

I theorize that many kids to have sex that early are responding to external pressures, rather than innate biological/hormonal motivations. So this kind of program makes sense for kids at this "gateway" age, but I don't think it's complete enough for older teens

No but it is a start and hopefully now that it has been done they will continue to follow up.

 

[Amulya]

I
Seriously, I realize I'm ancient, but in our house we had ONE television. You know what that meant? TV watching was a family event. You did it as a family.

Little kids with laptops? Crazy. Put the computer at a desk in the main family area, where everyone can see it, and arrange the desk so users have proper posture and don't risk RSIs.

Not ancient: I grew up the same way. Television programs were chosen by my mother and we watched it together. We did have a computer, but it was pre-internet times, how ancient am I?

I'm very pro sex-ed at an early age, but with a focus on RESPECTING your body. You know where I actually got the best psychological sex-ed? When I was 13, starting catechism at CHURCH. LOL. We had a guest pastor give a course on values clarification, where we learned that it was WRONG for a boy to pressure you to have sex, and it was wrong to use sex as a weapon or a bribe to get what you want.

There are also kids killing themselves over their sexual orientation, or their SUSPECTED orientation. I wish we could mandate that schools offer an outreach program to gay kids (or those who think they might be gay) to help them deal with the additional pressures gay (or perceived gay) teens face. In a perfect world, I guess.

I think my school did well regarding sexual orientation, it was very accepted and also included in sexual education. I went to a Catholic school, it was very modern and totally different from any other Catholic school I ever hear of.

I lock my pc now when I leave home because I apparently can't trust anyone to watch my kids as well as I do and my son can apparently turn off my parent guards.

:clap:

A hint on passwords: the next time you change yours, you might want to try mixing up words, initials, numbers. It might be harder for your little hacker to guess than a real word.

A friend of mine is the admin of a forum and has Russian hackers coming in daily, he came up with a very good trick that I think would work for kids that are too clever : for example, where it says 'register' he has used 'Reĝister and it changes all the time, now it is: '*Registēr*' of you use clever combination of letters symbols and those thingies that go above letters it's impossible to guess!

elfie`s story sort of reminds me of my grandma who kept insisting she didn`t know why she didn`t have more babies after 10 life ones and at least 4 still births. Later we found out the stop was simultaniously with her visit to the doctor and him giving her mysterious pills she had to take every day.


Amulya`s story then again reminds me of our second grade education(13/14). The subject was condoms and the biology teacher wanted to teach how to put them on. So she pulled out a baseball bat. Seriously, a baseball bat!:shok:
Perhaps that explains why as a whole our class was ready to wait:lol:

Hahahahaha! Our teacher used a banana, that's bad enough, might have made the girls think that male body parts were hooked like a banana and put them off sex LOL.

Would the abstinence idea not push some people in too early marriage? I always notice how in some countries, like the USA people often marry so early and get divorced again (and by then they have already put some kids in the world who will have divorced parents)

 

[Nejmeh]

Hahahahaha! Our teacher used a banana, that's bad enough, might have made the girls think that male body parts were hooked like a banana and put them off sex LOL.

Would the abstinence idea not push some people in too early marriage? I always notice how in some countries, like the USA people often marry so early and get divorced again (and by then they have already put some kids in the world who will have divorced parents)

Or the girls thought they could peel the real deal, hehe..

I believe it does make people wanna marry sooner. We had a couple of strict religous children in our class, most of them married their first sweetheart around 18-20. Check the biblebelt region here, same thing!
Another thing about the abstinence only thingie. Ok, so it could help for very young children(imo other things could help too) but what are you going to tell those children when they are older and you know the abstinence thing won`t work anymore. Tell them you lied to them when they were that young?

 

[Amulya]

Or the girls thought they could peel the real deal, hehe..

I believe it does make people wanna marry sooner. We had a couple of strict religous children in our class, most of them married their first sweetheart around 18-20. Check the biblebelt region here, same thing!
Another thing about the abstinence only thingie. Ok, so it could help for very young children(imo other things could help too) but what are you going to tell those children when they are older and you know the abstinence thing won`t work anymore. Tell them you lied to them when they were that young?

Biblebelt region? Is that the east in Holland? Although there is a place near Utrecht too.
I didn't know that there were still people in Holland who married so young because 'no sex before marriage' :shok: (I wonder what their divorce rates are) I always think of Holland as a modern country, so I tend to forget that not all of Holland is progressive.
I also heard something strange recently, it's quite off topic, but it's about marriage: that the Dutch government lets girls from certain backgrounds sign contracts before they go on holiday to the country of their parents, in case these girls are forced into marriage. I know those things happen a lot, but I didn't know about the contract thingy.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

I'm not sure I would put much stock in the result of studies that simply ask the kids themselves "did you have sex" or "at what age did you first have sex" for the simple reason that many of the kids don't take those studies/programs seriously anyway, and don't necessarily reflect the truth in their answers.

I play World of Warcraft avidly (I know, don't start in on it) and most of the people I play with in my group are middle- and high-school ranged, along with a few people my age. We were talking about anti-alcohol programs and abstinence programs and many of the kids commented that yes, they swore an oath to not have sex before marriage, or to not drink, yet all but three admitted they'd had sex and seven had tried alcohol. I asked "what about the promise to abstain," and while they all agreed it was a good GOAL, only the most truly religious of the kids thought it was something they really wanted to practice.

BUT -- none of them were ever planning on admitting their "indiscretions" to the program sponsors. They sort of have the attitude that if you make it alive through high school, your score card gets "erased" and you get a do-over in life. I doubt any of these kids, if polled, would admit they fell short in their promises to abstain. They don't see it as a big deal so "misrepresenting" their virginity status on some anonymous or random form would also not be a big deal.

(Plus, a lot of these kids were the products of 16- and 17-year-olds getting pregnant, so I think there's a certain amount of defensiveness towards anybody who says "hey don't make the same mistake your mom did." I can see how that would be taken as fairly offensive and summarily disregarded.)

 

[Nejmeh]

Biblebelt region? Is that the east in Holland? Although there is a place near Utrecht too.
I didn't know that there were still people in Holland who married so young because 'no sex before marriage' :shok: (I wonder what their divorce rates are) I always think of Holland as a modern country, so I tend to forget that not all of Holland is progressive.
I also heard something strange recently, it's quite off topic, but it's about marriage: that the Dutch government lets girls from certain backgrounds sign contracts before they go on holiday to the country of their parents, in case these girls are forced into marriage. I know those things happen a lot, but I didn't know about the contract thingy.

The biblebelt are those more heavily religious regions, like staphorst. Bijbelgordel - Wikipedia
I grew up in friesland('grefo`s') and we had several of those 'black stockings'. They didn`t go to Rome with the class because we traveled n sundays and I once had a discussion with one of them about if dinosaurs had existed(his argument: the bones were put there by the devil:think: ) So believe me, even in Holland they are out there! I will look up their divorcerate later today, I have it in my textbook!

True, underaged girls who are in risc of being married off and of which the authorities know can sign a contract. But it`s more a indication, if the girl doesn`t reappear on school after the holiday they can put pressure on the parents. Because the girl in forehand legally indicated she didn`t want to be married laywers can prove she has been forced. Still it doesn`t garantuee the parents will also return their daughter. And its no solution for girls who didn`t sign a contract(they target mostly the randstadregion).
I know of a heartbreaking story about a girl who indicated several times she was scared of this. School talked to her parents, they played the part of suddenly understanding and the next summer she is in Pakistan, she is married off. Their has been contact with a friend but the girl now says she married voluntary. Offcourse, she is in a foreign land, doesn`t know the language and doesn`t know what the people will do to her if she says no! She didn`t sign any contracts, so for now, there is nothing they can do for her.

 

[Amulya]

How frightening for them! And of course they will be raped on their wedding night most of the time .

Off topic, but now we're talking about this anyway, it also happens a lot where Moroccain women go on holiday with their husband to his family, he leaves her there, takes her passport, marries a new woman and takes her to Holland on the passport of the other wife (if they look similar), and otherwise there are other tricks. These women are left in a country and place (mostly in the mountains where the Berbers life) where they don't understand a thing.

 

[Nejmeh]

How frightening for them! And of course they will be raped on their wedding night most of the time .

Off topic, but now we're talking about this anyway, it also happens a lot where Moroccain women go on holiday with their husband to his family, he leaves her there, takes her passport, marries a new woman and takes her to Holland on the passport of the other wife (if they look similar), and otherwise there are other tricks. These women are left in a country and place (mostly in the mountains where the Berbers life) where they don't understand a thing.

To make the connection to the original subject, being raped and not knowing what the hell is going on

True, I have a lot of moroccan friends and I`ve heard this several times. The women have great difficulties getting back because they can no longer proove who they are. Or the men marry an uneducated girl from the Rif area, take her to holland and deploy her as their personal slave. Their were instances when the woman didn`t leave the house for 5 years in the middle of the big cities! Or they trade her in after a couple of years and send her back. I think its so sad al these things are being justified by calling it culture of even worse, religion.