Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 93
  1. #41
    Moderator Farasha Hanem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    In the heartland of the USA
    Posts
    4,790
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by missanime View Post
    Believe it or not its your stomach muscles that support your lower back So situps is an awsome way to ensure good support and posture (not to mention fabulous abs Lol).

    I do the modified situps where you lift your shoulders off the ground, and use an AbFlex (which is a dinosaur in the exercise machine world, but it still works xD ). Plus, I practice a lot on belly rolls and flutters, but I think part of my problem might be the kind of work I do. I do a lot of heavy lifting, and even though I try to make sure to lift correctly, I think I tend to overdo for my size.

  2. #42
    Member missanime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belly Love View Post
    What is considered the correct posture? I just assumed it was keeping your shoulders back...
    Proper posture is simply aligning from head to toe. Imagine a string pulling you up from your navel and out of your head, another pulling you straight down and out your feet. Imagine them pulling you long and taught, straightening your whole body like a puppet, so that from sideways if you were to draw a line dividing your front half and your back half, the frobbt of your ears, shoulders, hips, knees, and ankles would all be aligned. Your weight should also be centered, not too forward and not too far back.

    Good posture tho shouldn't just be only for when you dance tho Ask any chiropractic!

    Hth

  3. #43
    Member missanime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Farasha Hanem View Post
    I do the modified situps where you lift your shoulders off the ground, and use an AbFlex (which is a dinosaur in the exercise machine world, but it still works xD ). Plus, I practice a lot on belly rolls and flutters, but I think part of my problem might be the kind of work I do. I do a lot of heavy lifting, and even though I try to make sure to lift correctly, I think I tend to overdo for my size.
    Ahh ok, so yea lifting can also wreck havoc and stress out your back. When you lift anythibjg heavy, keep your knees bent so as to eleviate the stress from the lower back. Yes you might feel stupid lol, but trust me it'll help a great deal. Bellyrolls aren't quite enough either lol and the situps you need are the ones where you keep your knees bent slighly (at 45° angle or less if you can) and keeping your arms either crossed in front or out to sides, working more of *both* your upper and lower tummy muscles

    (i think the one you have only works your upper half which from the sounds of it, would also be counteractive to doing the bellyflutters. I think lol)

  4. #44
    Moderator Farasha Hanem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    In the heartland of the USA
    Posts
    4,790
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by missanime View Post
    Ahh ok, so yea lifting can also wreck havoc and stress out your back. When you lift anythibjg heavy, keep your knees bent so as to eleviate the stress from the lower back. Yes you might feel stupid lol, but trust me it'll help a great deal. Bellyrolls aren't quite enough either lol and the situps you need are the ones where you keep your knees bent slighly (at 45° angle or less if you can) and keeping your arms either crossed in front or out to sides, working more of *both* your upper and lower tummy muscles

    (i think the one you have only works your upper half which from the sounds of it, would also be counteractive to doing the bellyflutters. I think lol)
    Oh, okay, I'll try to do situps that way. Thank you.

  5. #45
    V.I.P. adiemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,792
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I hate to disagree - however I work with a bunch of excellent physiotherapists, and musculoskeletal pain is my specialty so.... here goes!
    Posture is not a static 'position' and there is no one 'correct' posture. In fact, posture refers to the positions we move from and to any movement. When people think of 'good' posture, they often do think of the 'stand up straight' and the 'think tall' posture - but that's only one position that we can adopt.
    The best way of thinking about posture is that what we're looking for is a set of positions that allow us the flexibility to move in and out of the widest range of movements that we need. So, for example, when I'm working at a computer, I need to be able to reach for the phone and for the copy holder and to turn the computer on and off - so slumping makes it difficult to do these things.
    In bellydance, we need to have lots of movement in our hips, lumbar spine, knees and so on - so any position that limits this range of movement will make it difficult to dance. The pelvis/hip/lumbar spine position that provides us with the greatest range of movement options is pelvis in a neutral position, feet slightly less than shoulder-width apart, knees soft, patella over mid-forefoot, lumbar spine slightly concave to the thoracic spine which is slightly convex, cervical spine slightly concave to the thoracic spine. - but in ballet, the posture is slightly different - more lifted in the mid-thoracic region (straighter), cervical spine extended, and similarly lumbar spine more flattened - and hips turned out, with knees more fully straightened. This gives that characteristic 'light' look of ballet.

    To maintain whatever posture that 'works' for the movements you want to do you need two sets of muscles - one set that moves in one direction and another that moves in the opposite direction. So for back flexion (bending forward) your abdominal muscles are more active while extending (getting back up again and bending backwards) your back muscles are more active. But as well as these sets of superficial muscles you have a number of interal 'layers' of muscles - and these ones are working pretty much all the time. These are the main ones that 'core muscle training' is intended to train - but actually every time you take a step, your core muscles are working hard. Core muscle training has been pretty over-rated, and in the scientific literature I read, isn't given an awful lot of time now. It's been fashionable - but not especially effective.
    The same thing applies to using special lifting techniques - these don't have any impact on preventing back pain, and don't help with recovery from back pain. I have loads of references if anyone's keen to read up on either of these topics!

    I'm very relaxed about posture, special muscle group training and special lifting techniques. In the absence of evidence to show that these things actually help very much, I'm advising patients I work with to use their bodies as normally as possible, accept that posture is not going to change significantly from what you've grown up with, and when thinking of training, it's best to train by doing specific movements you want to do rather than trying to find another set of exercises that will do the trick more quickly or efficiently. We're better off to do more of what we love - dancing - and drills that help us learn the neural pathways to make those movement patterns automatic.

    End of rave!

  6. #46
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,952
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by missanime View Post
    Believe it or not its your stomach muscles that support your lower back So situps is an awsome way to ensure good support and posture (not to mention fabulous abs Lol).
    1: "Stomach muscles" squeeze your stomach and help your food pass through the digessive track
    2: The muscles that support you lower back are the posture muscles such as Transversalis abdominis not the Rectus abdominis which is targeted in situps.
    3: Many people do situps in such a way as to not use their abs but rather their hip flexors - which is useless for postural support.

  7. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    129
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Thank you for this, I find it very interesting and reassuring.




    Quote Originally Posted by adiemus View Post
    I hate to disagree - however I work with a bunch of excellent physiotherapists, and musculoskeletal pain is my specialty so.... here goes!
    Posture is not a static 'position' and there is no one 'correct' posture. In fact, posture refers to the positions we move from and to any movement. When people think of 'good' posture, they often do think of the 'stand up straight' and the 'think tall' posture - but that's only one position that we can adopt.
    The best way of thinking about posture is that what we're looking for is a set of positions that allow us the flexibility to move in and out of the widest range of movements that we need. So, for example, when I'm working at a computer, I need to be able to reach for the phone and for the copy holder and to turn the computer on and off - so slumping makes it difficult to do these things.
    In bellydance, we need to have lots of movement in our hips, lumbar spine, knees and so on - so any position that limits this range of movement will make it difficult to dance. The pelvis/hip/lumbar spine position that provides us with the greatest range of movement options is pelvis in a neutral position, feet slightly less than shoulder-width apart, knees soft, patella over mid-forefoot, lumbar spine slightly concave to the thoracic spine which is slightly convex, cervical spine slightly concave to the thoracic spine. - but in ballet, the posture is slightly different - more lifted in the mid-thoracic region (straighter), cervical spine extended, and similarly lumbar spine more flattened - and hips turned out, with knees more fully straightened. This gives that characteristic 'light' look of ballet.

    To maintain whatever posture that 'works' for the movements you want to do you need two sets of muscles - one set that moves in one direction and another that moves in the opposite direction. So for back flexion (bending forward) your abdominal muscles are more active while extending (getting back up again and bending backwards) your back muscles are more active. But as well as these sets of superficial muscles you have a number of interal 'layers' of muscles - and these ones are working pretty much all the time. These are the main ones that 'core muscle training' is intended to train - but actually every time you take a step, your core muscles are working hard. Core muscle training has been pretty over-rated, and in the scientific literature I read, isn't given an awful lot of time now. It's been fashionable - but not especially effective.
    The same thing applies to using special lifting techniques - these don't have any impact on preventing back pain, and don't help with recovery from back pain. I have loads of references if anyone's keen to read up on either of these topics!

    I'm very relaxed about posture, special muscle group training and special lifting techniques. In the absence of evidence to show that these things actually help very much, I'm advising patients I work with to use their bodies as normally as possible, accept that posture is not going to change significantly from what you've grown up with, and when thinking of training, it's best to train by doing specific movements you want to do rather than trying to find another set of exercises that will do the trick more quickly or efficiently. We're better off to do more of what we love - dancing - and drills that help us learn the neural pathways to make those movement patterns automatic.

    End of rave!

  8. #48
    Member missanime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
    1: "Stomach muscles" squeeze your stomach and help your food pass through the digessive track
    2: The muscles that support you lower back are the posture muscles such as Transversalis abdominis not the Rectus abdominis which is targeted in situps.
    3: Many people do situps in such a way as to not use their abs but rather their hip flexors - which is useless for postural support.
    yep its why i told her the safest way to do them and yes -- of course theres more than just the tummy strength that supports lol, but its the main one. I generalize somtimes because i also assume folks got a brain and can certainly fill in the blanks on their own lol


  9. #49
    Member missanime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Lol well of course your posture will change as you moce lo

    'pulling up' is just an analogy. To pull taught or otherwise indicating stiffness would obviously be harmful and I would never make such an incorrct suggestion

    your info here is lovely and informative, yes. But - dance is FAR more than just biology or "getting fit"!





    Quote Originally Posted by adiemus View Post
    I hate to disagree - however I work with a bunch of excellent physiotherapists, and musculoskeletal pain is my specialty so.... here goes!
    Posture is not a static 'position' and there is no one 'correct' posture. In fact, posture refers to the positions we move from and to any movement. When people think of 'good' posture, they often do think of the 'stand up straight' and the 'think tall' posture - but that's only one position that we can adopt.
    The best way of thinking about posture is that what we're looking for is a set of positions that allow us the flexibility to move in and out of the widest range of movements that we need. So, for example, when I'm working at a computer, I need to be able to reach for the phone and for the copy holder and to turn the computer on and off - so slumping makes it difficult to do these things.
    In bellydance, we need to have lots of movement in our hips, lumbar spine, knees and so on - so any position that limits this range of movement will make it difficult to dance. The pelvis/hip/lumbar spine position that provides us with the greatest range of movement options is pelvis in a neutral position, feet slightly less than shoulder-width apart, knees soft, patella over mid-forefoot, lumbar spine slightly concave to the thoracic spine which is slightly convex, cervical spine slightly concave to the thoracic spine. - but in ballet, the posture is slightly different - more lifted in the mid-thoracic region (straighter), cervical spine extended, and similarly lumbar spine more flattened - and hips turned out, with knees more fully straightened. This gives that characteristic 'light' look of ballet.

    To maintain whatever posture that 'works' for the movements you want to do you need two sets of muscles - one set that moves in one direction and another that moves in the opposite direction. So for back flexion (bending forward) your abdominal muscles are more active while extending (getting back up again and bending backwards) your back muscles are more active. But as well as these sets of superficial muscles you have a number of interal 'layers' of muscles - and these ones are working pretty much all the time. These are the main ones that 'core muscle training' is intended to train - but actually every time you take a step, your core muscles are working hard. Core muscle training has been pretty over-rated, and in the scientific literature I read, isn't given an awful lot of time now. It's been fashionable - but not especially effective.
    The same thing applies to using special lifting techniques - these don't have any impact on preventing back pain, and don't help with recovery from back pain. I have loads of references if anyone's keen to read up on either of these topics!

    I'm very relaxed about posture, special muscle group training and special lifting techniques. In the absence of evidence to show that these things actually help very much, I'm advising patients I work with to use their bodies as normally as possible, accept that posture is not going to change significantly from what you've grown up with, and when thinking of training, it's best to train by doing specific movements you want to do rather than trying to find another set of exercises that will do the trick more quickly or efficiently. We're better off to do more of what we love - dancing - and drills that help us learn the neural pathways to make those movement patterns automatic.

    End of rave!

  10. #50
    V.I.P. Yame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,285
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adiemus View Post
    I'm very relaxed about posture, special muscle group training and special lifting techniques. In the absence of evidence to show that these things actually help very much, I'm advising patients I work with to use their bodies as normally as possible, accept that posture is not going to change significantly from what you've grown up with, and when thinking of training, it's best to train by doing specific movements you want to do rather than trying to find another set of exercises that will do the trick more quickly or efficiently. We're better off to do more of what we love - dancing - and drills that help us learn the neural pathways to make those movement patterns automatic.
    I do think that posture can change significantly from what we've grown up with, but I agree that the best way to do it is not with special muscle group training, but with dance training under the supervision of a very good teacher.

    Edit: Not just dance, but also other physical activities that focus on movement and require good, strong posture in the execution of those movements. But if dance is what you love to do, then dance is the best choice.
    Last edited by Yame; 11-23-2010 at 03:56 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •