Belly dance lessons for free!

Yame

New member
One of the things I enjoy about online forums is seeing points of view that are very different from my own!

I haven't watched this video, so I don't know what the teacher on the video is offering, so, this is a general comment about teaching shimmies to beginners....

I teach shimmies to my brand-new beginners on the very first night of class. I find that students love learning them - they feel as though they're learning a "real" belly dance move. Also, I've noticed from the dialogue I've seen in Egyptian movies that belly dancers are often referred to as "shaking their hips". It really is an very typical move, so why not teach it right from the beginning?

And honestly, I don't think a basic shimmy is all *that* hard to learn. I do, however, think that some teachers find it difficult to teach.

It is a very typical move, and depending on the style it's also one of the most important. It should be taught from the beginning, but I find it odd that it would be taught in the first class, and would lean towards teaching it around the end of the first session.

Of course, I am not a teacher myself, but I am very aware of methodology due to having gotten my initial bearings in this dance via self-teaching, having had multiple teachers, and being a very critical person. I am talking from the perspective of what would have worked for me and what I think would work for the people 'around' me (the people in the classes I've been in, friends who have asked me to teach them or help them with some moves, or people with inquiries on forums).

That is obviously a different perspective from the one you are offering, of someone who has been teaching this dance for years and years. If teaching the shimmy in the first class works for you, then maybe this dancer in the video is onto something and I am wrong to think that was a bad choice for a first lesson.

None of the teachers I've taken beginners with taught it right away, and neither did the DVDs that I used when I was starting out. Most belly dance students I know do not start to "get" this shimmy (driven by the bending and straightening of the legs, with slight up and down motion of the hips) until later on, and in fact some of them never actually get it. The up and down motion can not be achieved unless the student already has some isolation ability, and the shimmy itself requires speed, on top of that ability. This is why I didn't find it appropriate for a first class. But I'd love to know what type of shimmy you teach in yours, and how many students get it right away or about how long it takes for those who don't. It's fascinating that your students might be having the opposite experience with shimmies that I see most students having!
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
But I'd love to know what type of shimmy you teach in yours, and how many students get it right away or about how long it takes for those who don't. It's fascinating that your students might be having the opposite experience with shimmies that I see most students having!

It seems we're talking about the same shimmy. First, I have my students bend their knees a bit, and hold their upper body in the position as if they're preparing to sit down in a chair.

Then, I have everyone use their hand to reach down and touch the backs of their legs, to draw their focus there, and I have them use their hand to wobble their hamstrings back and forth a little. I do this for the benefit of the tactile learners.

Then I have them return to the upright position of knees bent and upper body preparing to sit.

Then I tell them to jiggle the flab on the backs of their legs.

In all my years of teaching belly dance, I've had only ONE student who didn't instantly do the correct movement I was looking for after introducing the topic this way.

Most could only keep it going for a few seconds at first, and that's okay. The next thing I taught was how to extend how long they could keep it going. Ie, keep the knees bent, don't let them gradually straighten. If you lose it, take a deep breath and start again. It's okay to let everything wobble - it's SUPPOSED to jiggle! And so on....

Another thing we do to help them grasp the leg movement I'm looking for is to sit on the floor with feet straight forward. Then, in this position, jiggle the knees so that the backs of the legs flop against the floor.
 

Yame

New member
Then I have them return to the upright position of knees bent and upper body preparing to sit.

Then I tell them to jiggle the flab on the backs of their legs.

That sounds to me like a vibration type of shimmy, rather than what was taught in that video. I am picturing bent and shivering legs, as opposed to legs that are bending and straightening quickly. The former was the first shimmy I could do, and I could see how someone could be taught that in the first class, but the latter, I still can't see.
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
That sounds to me like a vibration type of shimmy, rather than what was taught in that video. I am picturing bent and shivering legs, as opposed to legs that are bending and straightening quickly. The former was the first shimmy I could do, and I could see how someone could be taught that in the first class, but the latter, I still can't see.

Again, I haven't watched the clip, but the shimmy I'm talking about does involve bending and straightening the legs, not really shivering.

However...

Some people refer to the shimmy that Raqia Hassa teaches as the "straight-leg shimmy" or the "Egyptian shimmy" - is that the one you're thinking of? If so, it's really the same thing as the shimmy I described, it's just that you do the one I described in an "about to sit down" position with weight more on the heels while you do the one Raqia teaches in a "standing fully erect" position with weight more on the toes. Either way, the leg motion is the same, but they look different because of the posture and weight placement.
 

Yame

New member
Again, I haven't watched the clip, but the shimmy I'm talking about does involve bending and straightening the legs, not really shivering.

However...

Some people refer to the shimmy that Raqia Hassa teaches as the "straight-leg shimmy" or the "Egyptian shimmy" - is that the one you're thinking of? If so, it's really the same thing as the shimmy I described, it's just that you do the one I described in an "about to sit down" position with weight more on the heels while you do the one Raqia teaches in a "standing fully erect" position with weight more on the toes. Either way, the leg motion is the same, but they look different because of the posture and weight placement.

Then it sounds more like my "main" shimmy, which is also the shimmy taught in the video (except I tend to exaggerate it more than that dancer). It is like Raqia's shimmy but with a different posture, as you said. In Raqia's, the legs are straight, the pelvis is less tucked, and the weight is more forward. In the one that I do, the motion of the legs are the same, but because the knees are slightly more bent and the tailbone down, the motion allows for the hips to move up and down whereas in the Raqia shimmy the effect looks more like the belly is wobbling forward and back (if the mechanics of the legs aren't seen).

Interesting that your students don't have much trouble with that shimmy! Most dancers I have come across do.
 

LadyLoba

New member
I want to dance like Shakira!!!

I'm fine with all the people offering classes with "dance like Shakira" as the come on...just as long as they teach safely and break things down...and as long as people realize that they're not going to be able to dance exactly like Shakira (meaning do every move she does) perfectly after one class...and that if it's a belly dance course...they're not going to get her latin dance moves.

There's a huge difference there. If a teacher goes over the very basics, then says "Okay....Shakira's signature belly dance moves are Maya hips, egyptian shimmy, etc. so we're going to focus on those"...that's wonderful. If you get a teacher who goes "Take my free 10 lessons then pay me XXX amount of dollars for the rest of the 6 week course and you'll be able to dance just like Shakira!" that's someone ripping you off. So I think it all comes down to whether or not they're being completely upfront about any further costs and making reasonable promises.

If I looked this over and it seemed safe and realistic and they were upfront about any further costs, I'd absolutely do this. I have almost no money after bills and expenses each month, so I have certainly taken advantage of free online lessons.

The Soul Studio Belly Dance Dictionary (suggested to me by Elfie) has been my most useful free online resource.
 

jenc

New member
As I understand it what is onffer once you finish the course is 2 choreo vids. However, there are no clips anywhere of this dancer in actoin
 

Gillian

New member
First lesson is up and dancing...okay, I'll admit I have bought the first package on offer. It's very good and professionally filmed. I had to go with the SD version though as the HD version was nearly 3Gig in size. I think she might be onto something...I like it...just my 2pence as usual :) No doubt others will have other views. By the way the link is here belly dance classes
 
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Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
In defense of Shakira, I have to say that she has attracted many new people into learning more about bellydance. It's a good beginning. But just like crawling, it shouldn't be done forever and dancers' tastes should grow.

However, it would be nice if Shakira would learn more herself <sigh>
 

jenc

New member
First lesson is up and dancing...okay, I'll admit I have bought the first package on offer. It's very good and professionally filmed. I had to go with the SD version though as the HD version was nearly 3Gig in size. I think she might be onto something...I like it...just my 2pence as usual :) No doubt others will have other views. By the way the link is here belly dance classes

I must admit that I was not impressed by the clip. All that twirling - apart from being very repetitive would make me too dizzy. Can you say if the rest of the content is very varied - and whether it is good for beginners only etc.
 

Gillian

New member
Hi Jenc, to be honest, that was just one part of the whole routine. There are 21 videos and covers a wide range of techniques including double hip drops, shimmys, veil improvisation and there was a videos specifically talking about the turning etc and alternatives offered, so there does seem to be a lot in it. Overall I am not complaining although it's probably not for total beginners...oh, it also has a lovely PDF book which goes over all the moves etc...hopefully Maysa will put up some other parts of the routine to let people see it as it perhaps is off putting just to see that one part.
 

jenc

New member
Of course I know it was just one part of the routine - but not one that shows her abilities to any great advantage, nor does it inspire with possibilities
 

Gillian

New member
Oh well, apparently she is now on the forum so I guess you can express your displeasure to her directly and tell her just how rubbish she is :)
I noticed she has signed up in the meet and greet section...
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Gillian, you are overstating matters. No one has referred to this teacher as "rubbish" or been especially "bitchy" about her performance video.

There have been a lot of thoughtful remarks about what people think would improve her presentation, as well as remarks noting the value of offering free dance classes as a way to draw people in. I advertise classes in another field on line and very much appreciated this sort of review of my original site from knowledgeable people. I was able to make changes that I wouldn't have otherwise thought of and improved my site thanks to "bitchy" prospective students.

Given her nice layouts and descriptions, not to mention the sheer determination and work it takes to do a project on this scale, I suspect Zeina is more than intelligent enough to weigh remarks here and to decide whether or not to act on them without getting in a huff because everyone did not stand up and cheer indiscriminately.

By the way, a big welcome to you, Maysa. :clap: I look forward to getting to know you better.
 
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Gillian

New member
Hi Shanazel, thanks for your post. I'm not really going to comment on Maysa's lessons any more as I am sure as you point out she can speak for herself..I would say in my defence, as I have bought into this product and obviously Jenc does not rate it, I guess I was feeling a bit insecure regarding my own judgement...if you feel I was being hard on Jenc then I can't agree as her last post included below seemed more than a little acidic (I'm assuming she has not done the free course)...anyway, that's me finished on this topic regardless of what else comes up...your overall points make good sense.

From Jenc "Of course I know it was just one part of the routine - but not one that shows her abilities to any great advantage, nor does it inspire with possibilities"
 

jenc

New member
I just meant to say that that I am sure it is not the best clip that Maysa could have found tro get me for one interested. I have done the free course - and found that several sections gave me a new slant.

My thinking is though, that the free course was aimed at wannabe Shakiras - whereas a full choreo to Zeina is, I assume, aimed at dancers. As such, with such a lot of other dvds out there, I would have expected a more distinctive clip. i want to go wow that is an interesting move, or what a refreshing way of interpreting that bit of the music. And I am still interested in seeing Maysa dance, as teaching and dancing are 2 different things, although there is a bit more overlap in demonstrating a choreo.

for the record, I have been dancing 4 years, and so I am probably not where this material is aimed - although, I do buy beginner level as well.
 

XelaHayam

New member
Maybe I'm being too harsh - but the advert just tangled my tassles! I'm still not sure why someone would offer free lessons? Knowing how hard it can be to run a business as a teacher, why would you do it?

It might be taken out of context - I teach free classes, but on a campus, to fellow university students. It's only an 8 week beginner course and the goal is to get women (and men) interested in the art and culture of middle eastern dance and maybe join our organization. They can later progress to intermediate classes which we do charge for. But this flyar may be a promotion for a bigger cause, and they are probably getting their money through advertising and merchandise sales (hip scarves etc). Honestly, without actual human interaction to correct your basic technique, any dancer who learns solely from this and not just as a supplement, is going to be crap. So we have nothing to worry about.
 
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Kashmir

New member
It might be taken out of context - I teach free classes, but on a campus, to fellow university students. It's only an 8 week beginner course and the goal is to get women (and men) interested in the art and culture of middle eastern dance and maybe join our organization. They can later progress to intermediate classes which we do charge for.
<snip>
Honestly, without actual human interaction to correct your basic technique, any dancer who learns solely from this and not just as a supplement, is going to be crap. So we have nothing to worry about.
Actually, if you are trying to make a living out of dance teaching either of these are something to worry about.

The "beginner bulge" is how most teachers pay the rent. A very small percentage stay - but all those bodies giving it a try for a few weeks help pay the rent. Many people "just want a go" - or think it's easier than they believe and once tasted they go off to do rock climbing or cake decorating. So, if someone is "kindly" offering 8 weeks (!!) as a free taster that is a lot of dollars that will never be seen in a paying class.

And a town full of crap dancers isn't great either - especially if they have never had feedback and think they are great. They'll grab gigs by undercutting - after all they have not paid anything for lessons - make a hash of it and then no-one will want to hire a belly dancer who might be a little better.

Total nightmare is when one of these unaware crap dancers has a charismatic personality and starts gathering acolytes - then you have a whole bevy of people who can't dance and think they can.
 

XelaHayam

New member
Actually, if you are trying to make a living out of dance teaching either of these are something to worry about.

The "beginner bulge" is how most teachers pay the rent. A very small percentage stay - but all those bodies giving it a try for a few weeks help pay the rent. Many people "just want a go" - or think it's easier than they believe and once tasted they go off to do rock climbing or cake decorating. So, if someone is "kindly" offering 8 weeks (!!) as a free taster that is a lot of dollars that will never be seen in a paying class.

And a town full of crap dancers isn't great either - especially if they have never had feedback and think they are great. They'll grab gigs by undercutting - after all they have not paid anything for lessons - make a hash of it and then no-one will want to hire a belly dancer who might be a little better.

Total nightmare is when one of these unaware crap dancers has a charismatic personality and starts gathering acolytes - then you have a whole bevy of people who can't dance and think they can.

I agree that nothing is worse than a crap dancer who thinks their good (and has no experience except self teaching from shakira videos) I guess I mispoke, and I mean that they are never going to be serious dancers in the community. I think the best thing we can do as teachers and students is spread the word! So that the public and restaurants don't hire or want to see those "crap dancers" in the first place. The more us real dancers get out there and make ourselves accessible (Free classes to get people interested even) the more people will know the truth about dancing. These videos probably don't acheive that, but I know that by offering free classes and well as free community performances and lectures, my Troupe spreads awareness about the history and culture of our dance. It's about more than just money and entertaining (Though I'm a professional dancer too! so I understand that; I work dancing at a resturaunt) But my first love is spreading the love. Thats where I was coming from with my comment.


EDIT: I realize how neive and idealistic my comment sounds, but really, It's what we have to do. There is definitely a ballance between doing it for money, and doing it for love. I think we should do it for money to get by and grow, but also share with our communities to educate them. I want to be a succesful performer and teacher, but not if everyone thinks I'm a "mulism stripper" - It's worth it to me to offer a few Free seminars, intro classes, and shows every now and then to clear the air and really show people who might not of otherwise cared to look. I do not ever endorse DVD training ever though, (only suplimentally) so this DVD alone isnt going to have the same effect I'm talking about. Im just saying, Free classes aren't bad. Most of my students in my free class wouldnt even be taking the class if it cost money, so it isn't taking away business
 
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