Greek Bonfire
Well-known member
Oh yes! And then slam other dancers/teachers/upcoming dancers as well. Ugh!
Student annoyances
- Thread starter Nejmeh
- Start date
Oh yes! And then slam other dancers/teachers/upcoming dancers as well. Ugh!
I have to second the complaint for the teachers that don't tell you that you are doing something wrong, or offer no feedback whatsoever.
As for anyone having their own place in class, well, you NEED to switch places in the room so that when you have to do your dancing elsewhere, the change in orientation and scenery does not throw you off! And, yes, if we have a choreo that has a formation, and someone does not show up, the formation has to change! Don't let them get stuck in one spot!
As for anyone having their own place in class, well, you NEED to switch places in the room so that when you have to do your dancing elsewhere, the change in orientation and scenery does not throw you off! And, yes, if we have a choreo that has a formation, and someone does not show up, the formation has to change! Don't let them get stuck in one spot!
Darshiva
Moderator
It's such a pity this thread has died off. As a teacher I've been watching this thread with interest and taking notes. Is there really nothing more that annoys students in their classrooms?
If you have a nice long list of grievances or gripes but don't want to come across poorly online, please pm me about them. This sort of feedback informs and improves the classroom.
If you have a nice long list of grievances or gripes but don't want to come across poorly online, please pm me about them. This sort of feedback informs and improves the classroom.
BellaBohemian
New member
I think the only other thing I would add is paitence.
Like many others, I am visual learner, I need to see something a few times, take in the WHOLE picture before it actually clicks as to what Im suppose to do. I think its fair to say most dancers learn by doing, so I think it throws my teachers off when I stand still and watch them haha! They are never mean about it, but they say something every time. I have an uber nice teacher so typically its words of encouragment or her asking if I need help, but more times then not I just need those few extra seconds to watch. I struggle the most with where to place my feet so if I dont watch the teacher's feet prior to actually doing a movement, I will (and have) fall lol.
All that was a very round-about way of saying, give students a few moments to collect themselves. Or even, be more observant to how they are learning. Do they close their eyes to hear or feel the move better? Are they watching themselves or you in the mirror intently? Are they jumping right in and following you?
Im not too shy to speak up if I am struggling, but a lot of people are. If you can get a feel for how they are learning you can help to give them pointers that will be more geared to how they think.
I swear everytime I post something on here I feel like it makes no sense haha. :think:
Like many others, I am visual learner, I need to see something a few times, take in the WHOLE picture before it actually clicks as to what Im suppose to do. I think its fair to say most dancers learn by doing, so I think it throws my teachers off when I stand still and watch them haha! They are never mean about it, but they say something every time. I have an uber nice teacher so typically its words of encouragment or her asking if I need help, but more times then not I just need those few extra seconds to watch. I struggle the most with where to place my feet so if I dont watch the teacher's feet prior to actually doing a movement, I will (and have) fall lol.
All that was a very round-about way of saying, give students a few moments to collect themselves. Or even, be more observant to how they are learning. Do they close their eyes to hear or feel the move better? Are they watching themselves or you in the mirror intently? Are they jumping right in and following you?
Im not too shy to speak up if I am struggling, but a lot of people are. If you can get a feel for how they are learning you can help to give them pointers that will be more geared to how they think.
I swear everytime I post something on here I feel like it makes no sense haha. :think:
onela
New member
I hate it when there's no reverence or curtsey at the end of a class. I like an "end of class" ritual.
Also, I know a lot of my classmates don't agree with me, but I really don't like when my teacher runs through choreographpy with us every single time. I get too dependent on teacher and don't *really* learn the dance. If it's an 8 week class by week 6 I want the teacher to run it with us less and I don't want her to run it at all with us the last class. I want to know the dance independently of if my teacher is dancing it with me/us or not.
Oh and people getting attached to a spot! I like it when teacher rotates lines regularly and I try to not always stand on the same side of the room too. I like it when a teacher encourages people to try out different parts of the room. Spot territory behavior makes me mental!
Also, I know a lot of my classmates don't agree with me, but I really don't like when my teacher runs through choreographpy with us every single time. I get too dependent on teacher and don't *really* learn the dance. If it's an 8 week class by week 6 I want the teacher to run it with us less and I don't want her to run it at all with us the last class. I want to know the dance independently of if my teacher is dancing it with me/us or not.
Oh and people getting attached to a spot! I like it when teacher rotates lines regularly and I try to not always stand on the same side of the room too. I like it when a teacher encourages people to try out different parts of the room. Spot territory behavior makes me mental!
Za Linda
New member
Why don't we talk about the positives, instead of the negatives?
I find it helpful/useful/enjoyable when my teacher/s...
1) demonstrate choreography to music, before and after teaching it to us (this is so inspiring!)
2) use two or three explanations when teaching a new isolation, e.g. a visualisation, a physiological analysis of what muscles and bones should be doing, and describing sensations i.e. "how it feels when I do this"
3) go over a new combination a few times at different speeds with the class, stopping to polish the sections that are giving the class trouble
4) give little bits of relevant cultural background for isolations, choreos, etc
5) after a workshop, give a list of what music we've been training with
6) hint at directions that could "stretch" the ability of the more advanced students in the class, so the students can follow those up in their own time
7) use repetition in class, going over previously-learnt isolations and combinations, but at a "beginner" speed so we can check we haven't picked up bad habits in our technique during practice at home
8) demonstrate their love and respect for the belly dance form they are teaching, by communicating their depth of knowledge
9) demonstrate compassion and respect for their students (i.e. professionalism and guidance without ego)
10) give us news about what is happening in our local belly dance community; haflas, workshops, visiting artists, new DVDs and CDs.
I expect my fellow students to...
1) respect the teacher/s by turning up before class starts, and give the teacher/s full attention during class, and follow the teacher/s' instructions at all times
2) respect me as I respect them; be courteous and friendly, and make allowances where necessary for someone who might have had a rough day.
When I was learning martial arts, we had a sheet outlining school etiquette - what to wear, how to behave. There was also a school pledge, which we recited at the end of each class time, about respect and honour. Simple but effective; we all took these to heart and anyone who didn't was soon removed from the school. I know that sounds a bit drastic, but perhaps belly dance teachers should have similar things for their students?
I find it helpful/useful/enjoyable when my teacher/s...
1) demonstrate choreography to music, before and after teaching it to us (this is so inspiring!)
2) use two or three explanations when teaching a new isolation, e.g. a visualisation, a physiological analysis of what muscles and bones should be doing, and describing sensations i.e. "how it feels when I do this"
3) go over a new combination a few times at different speeds with the class, stopping to polish the sections that are giving the class trouble
4) give little bits of relevant cultural background for isolations, choreos, etc
5) after a workshop, give a list of what music we've been training with
6) hint at directions that could "stretch" the ability of the more advanced students in the class, so the students can follow those up in their own time
7) use repetition in class, going over previously-learnt isolations and combinations, but at a "beginner" speed so we can check we haven't picked up bad habits in our technique during practice at home
8) demonstrate their love and respect for the belly dance form they are teaching, by communicating their depth of knowledge
9) demonstrate compassion and respect for their students (i.e. professionalism and guidance without ego)
10) give us news about what is happening in our local belly dance community; haflas, workshops, visiting artists, new DVDs and CDs.
I expect my fellow students to...
1) respect the teacher/s by turning up before class starts, and give the teacher/s full attention during class, and follow the teacher/s' instructions at all times
2) respect me as I respect them; be courteous and friendly, and make allowances where necessary for someone who might have had a rough day.
When I was learning martial arts, we had a sheet outlining school etiquette - what to wear, how to behave. There was also a school pledge, which we recited at the end of each class time, about respect and honour. Simple but effective; we all took these to heart and anyone who didn't was soon removed from the school. I know that sounds a bit drastic, but perhaps belly dance teachers should have similar things for their students?
Za Linda
New member
Oh, I forgot this one!
I really like it when my teacher/s
11) make the class perform the well-practiced choreography, and the teacher/s watch so they can see what sections need to be worked on. (Critique optional!)
I should also add that, in our martial arts school, learning the school pledge and other oral stuff was part of our grading system. No pledge, no pass.
I really like it when my teacher/s
11) make the class perform the well-practiced choreography, and the teacher/s watch so they can see what sections need to be worked on. (Critique optional!)
I should also add that, in our martial arts school, learning the school pledge and other oral stuff was part of our grading system. No pledge, no pass.
Ariadne
Well-known member
That would be really nice.
A few minutes at the end of class to take notes on what needs to be done before the next class would be invaluable as well.
I also (like many others) want to know when I am doing something right or wrong. Yes I know it's a large class and I don't want to take the teachers time from the others but consistent feedback is really useful especially since I am so bad at reading faces, I can't guess just by watching your reaction.
If you have a choreography to teach please have a handout that writes it out completely. I will not be able to remember it at home well enough to practice and I want to use class time to learn new things instead of only practicing something we've already been taught because I don't know what I'm doing.
Please, please, please prepare me for something new when it comes to performing or a public appearance. I want to know not only what to expect but exactly what will be expected from me. Don't assume I'll figure it out.
Lastly I am going to say I am grateful for a teacher willing to take someone with my health problems, I am sure it's not as simple as teaching someone in good health. It does mean though that there will be times when everything goes right over my head no matter how hard I try to concentrate. I know it but there is nothing I can do so please be patient, I'll get it later when I'm feeling better.
Aniseteph
New member
:clap: Za Linda - great list. (every time I read these sort of things I am grateful for my teacher who ticks so many boxes it's sickening... yup, we do that, and that, and are there classes where people don't do this? :shok:... 
)
I think it depends on the type of class as to whether there are pledges etc, or closing rituals. (Unless, "OK that's all the time we have, thank you ladies and see you next week" counts). I seem to remember curtseys in ballet when I was little, but outside the serious dance school environment I'd find it weird and I've never seen it in a belly dance class or workshop.
I realise there are some people who could do with taking a pledge as to how to behave in a class environment, but this could come across as extremely patronising and offensive, and for belly dance I would hate it. A handout on expectations in class is fine, likewise Adult Ed's small print about what is acceptable and at what point the teacher can chuck you out, or a troupe contract on choreographies/costumes etc... But I'm not taking a pledge to anyone in the name of belly dance, or to anyone's school or interpretation of belly dance. Not even if you are Nesrin Topkapi.
OK, maybe if you are Nesrin Topkapi I'll think about it.
)I think it depends on the type of class as to whether there are pledges etc, or closing rituals. (Unless, "OK that's all the time we have, thank you ladies and see you next week" counts). I seem to remember curtseys in ballet when I was little, but outside the serious dance school environment I'd find it weird and I've never seen it in a belly dance class or workshop.
I realise there are some people who could do with taking a pledge as to how to behave in a class environment, but this could come across as extremely patronising and offensive, and for belly dance I would hate it. A handout on expectations in class is fine, likewise Adult Ed's small print about what is acceptable and at what point the teacher can chuck you out, or a troupe contract on choreographies/costumes etc... But I'm not taking a pledge to anyone in the name of belly dance, or to anyone's school or interpretation of belly dance. Not even if you are Nesrin Topkapi.
OK, maybe if you are Nesrin Topkapi I'll think about it.
Reen.Blom
New member
LOL I do that a LOT. Unless I'm late Im ALWAYS in the front row. Comes with being a shortie... :lol::lol::lol:
Bast
New member
I love my class and my teacher. She does a lot of the great things that were listed in an earlier post. She even gives us her choreo notes written down which for me is a huge help.
There is just one little thing....more time to organise costumes would be great. My sewing skills are terrible so I have to get creative with the internet and/or see a dressmaker which takes time, especially if I order something made to measure from overseas.
There is just one little thing....more time to organise costumes would be great. My sewing skills are terrible so I have to get creative with the internet and/or see a dressmaker which takes time, especially if I order something made to measure from overseas.
Greek Bonfire
Well-known member
I always found this to be extremely important to receive construction criticism and it was very helpful when we did this in front of the teacher.
:dance:
I have learned how very important it is to not be in front of the class after the choreo is learned. You need to see that your students are not simply "following" you. You need to see that they can all be on the beat. It is also good to practice starting the dance facing different directions so that they are not disoriented when starting without the mirror in front of them. Yes, we teachers really need to step out of line and observe so that we can make corrections, give advice, and point out things that we like. I thought my class had a choreo down pat. I was injured one day and could only "sit teach". I started the music and no one was on beat! Stop! Stop! Stop! We did a clapping out the beat exercise with call out of moves along with it to get everyone on track. Luckily this was done early on!
I wish this would be done in workshops! I mean, we pay a lot of money to go to them. Why is the choreo not handed out at the beginning of the class? And all teachers should be patient, especially toward those with health problems or injuries. I had a yoga class in a workshop with Deb and she was WONDERFUL in helping me with my individual problem and I appreciated that SO much!
Aniseteph
New member
For workshops I suppose the bare bones of it would be useful, but getting the details on paper is a very personal thing - mine has scribbly diagrams, patterns and stick people, yours might have counts and step names. And words aren't necessarily helpful with such unstandardised terminology. The more international you get the worse it gets - add in language issues. I'd rather spend extra time rotating the lines and following the bouncing butt than wait while people consulted their handouts and argued about what this bit means. If you do this upfront in lectures people can end up focused on their handouts rather than the bigger picture of what you are actually trying to get across.
:think: So I suppose if the teacher is trying to communicate "here's a choreography by X to song Y, off you go and perform/teach it", fair enough. But if she/he is trying to get across her/his way of responding to that music, not so much - the choreography isn't the point. It all depends on the workshop focus.
Daimona
Moderator
This is very true. As soon as the students get their hand on the notes, they'll usually focus on the notes and trying to dechipher the notes instead of learning the moves and musical interpretation. That is why handouts should be given out at the end of or just after the class.
Another reason teachers don't hand out written notes at the beginning of a course is that the choreography isn't completely finished when the course starts, which allows the teacher to adopt it further to suit the level of the class.
Some teachers I've had hand out notes on e-mail after classes (preferably the same day or at least the day after). They are mainly the teacher's own keywords, and the students have to fill in the details themselves.
If I want to remember choreographies, I need to write them down. Previously (i.e. untill I stopped performing other teachers choreographies) I spent a lot of hours getting it all down - from musical analysis to movements, directions etc, focusing on getting every little detail of a choreography correct. Now I prefer to just write down some combinations, if I like them.
Greek Bonfire
Well-known member
I think handing out notes is definitely going the extra mile, even if everybody doesn't fully understand it. I found that I remembered the workshop when reading the notes - something you can do only by attending. As far as a weekly class, if a teacher does write down the choreo that is also greatly appreciated by me. Sometimes I do go home and write it down myself, but it has to be fresh in my mind if it's new.
I don't want to harp too much on these issues because I could never be a teacher, not enough time or patience, so unless I ever actually get the opportunity to become one, I don't want to be too critical unless the issue is too obvious. Teaching is really a hard job even if you love it.
I don't want to harp too much on these issues because I could never be a teacher, not enough time or patience, so unless I ever actually get the opportunity to become one, I don't want to be too critical unless the issue is too obvious. Teaching is really a hard job even if you love it.
Mariyam
New member
I doubt all teachers have sufficient knowledge of health problems/injuries to help you adapt a certain movement to respect the limitations (although I'm sure the vast majority does). In my opinion, all teachers SHOULD have knowledge of body movement mechanics and dance anatomy, but how many teachers out there actually *do* have this knowledge...? :think: (I'm thinking of the 2-weeks wonders of this world)
Anyway, I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers
Shanazel
Moderator
Dealing with physical challenges in a dance class is like being a vegetarian at a bar-be-que: you partake of as much of the bounty as you can without taking umbrage over a menu that was not designed with your limitations in mind.
While I am sympathetic toward physical challenges faced by my students, I don't expect to practice medicine, chiropractic, or physical therapy in the course of my classes. Anyone with specific health and/or movement related problems needs to visit a health care professional before signing up class to make sure belly dance is an appropriate activity for them. Having done so, it would be smart as well as courteous to let the teacher know before the first class (not during) about any modifications the student needs to make.
In the last three and a half decades, hundreds of students have passed through my classes. I can't always recall who has the bum knees and who has the bone spur on her heel. If we are working on mayas and mayas are hell on your knees, then for Christmas sake, don't do the damned mayas- practice something that does not hurt your knees and when I am making rounds of the room to offer individual assistance, we will deal with modifications or alternate movements for you.
While I am sympathetic toward physical challenges faced by my students, I don't expect to practice medicine, chiropractic, or physical therapy in the course of my classes. Anyone with specific health and/or movement related problems needs to visit a health care professional before signing up class to make sure belly dance is an appropriate activity for them. Having done so, it would be smart as well as courteous to let the teacher know before the first class (not during) about any modifications the student needs to make.
In the last three and a half decades, hundreds of students have passed through my classes. I can't always recall who has the bum knees and who has the bone spur on her heel. If we are working on mayas and mayas are hell on your knees, then for Christmas sake, don't do the damned mayas- practice something that does not hurt your knees and when I am making rounds of the room to offer individual assistance, we will deal with modifications or alternate movements for you.