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  1. #11
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    I was just thinking that the inappropriate use of Femme Fatale as a general term for any independent, seductive female sounds like something propagated by insecure men. So, Jeniviva is probably just using the term used by males around her. However, a strong, independent woman should do a better job of getting the terminology right.

    If I was a woman, I would find it a bit offensive to be referred to as a Femme Fatale just for being independent or seductive.

  2. #12
    V.I.P. Ariadne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juno View Post
    I was just thinking that the inappropriate use of Femme Fatale as a general term for any independent, seductive female sounds like something propagated by insecure men. So, Jeniviva is probably just using the term used by males around her.
    Not a chance, in fact she is owning the name.

    Ah... I wish I could just embed that section of the video but I would rather respect their copyright sooo... in Jeniviva's own words... forgive my attempt at transcription but I think I have it right.
    "For me the Femme Fatale, the modern day Femme Fatale, is a women who again is; in touch with her sensuality, umm, who is not afraid to ask for what she wants, who lives her life as free as she chooses without apology, and someone who enjoys her body. I mean I came to know about the Femme Fatal through bellydance and through bellydance I got in touch with the divine feminine within us. It was just ah, something that was innate in all women we just needed to remember it. And once I remembered it I started looking in history in, other dancers; Ruth St. Denis, umm, actresses; Theda Bara was a huge inspiration, umm, Anita Berber, Louise Brooks, these wild women, bad gals if you will, they provoked people they made major changes with the choices and the roles they took on in, you know, their boldness. For us to do that today it definitely makes you a little bit dangerous but it's kind of empowering so, we're taking the term and flipping it on it's head."

    That is why I was also wondering what people thought of the modern Femme Fatal, what it meant to them?

  3. #13
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
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    These days IMO it is mostly used in a tongue-in-cheek way, or to play dressing up.

    I'm trying to think of anyone famous who you could seriously apply it to...

  4. #14
    Junior Member Za Linda's Avatar
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    Femme Fatale makes me think of:

    1) Judith befriending the warlord Holophernes, with the aid of alcohol, then beheading him as he slept, effectively preventing the imminent invasion and slaughter of her country. As the story goes, she was a beautiful widow, who turned down all suitors. (Wikipedia link)

    2) the elegant archetype in old movies, who feigns innocence while kicking the smoking gun under the nearest counterpane. (But are her 'prints on the gun? Or is she protecting someone?)

    In essence, a beautiful woman performs a dirty deed unexpectedly, perhaps using her wily charms to achieve this. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the dirty deed depends on who it inconveniences, and wily charms might be social skills by another name. Perhaps she is really a heroine.

    Who does this sort of thing these days?

    Perhaps we are all Femme Fatales on rare occasions...but it depends on who is reporting on the action.

  5. #15
    V.I.P. Ariadne's Avatar
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    I don't think we have any really good Femme Fetales in film these days. Maybe it's because the "vamp" doesn't mean what it used to, a vampire that drained the life out of others. It used to be a stigma and now being a vamp is something some women publicly aspire to. Maybe the lack of roles is because if someone did make a proper Femme Fatale character they would be accused of misogyny. Whatever the reason it's a real pity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Za Linda View Post
    In essence, a beautiful woman performs a dirty deed unexpectedly, perhaps using her wily charms to achieve this. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the dirty deed depends on who it inconveniences, and wily charms might be social skills by another name. Perhaps she is really a heroine.
    In some literature sometimes she is an anti-hero, the conniving woman who for the first time falls honestly in love and is willing to do anything, even change, for other person; the female counterpart to the heartless rouge changed by the love of a good woman. If they do whatever it is out of unselfish motives though doesn't that by definition mean they are not "sans merci", not really a Femme Fatale? Mind you mistaken motives and character are an excellent plot device.

  6. #16
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    Apart from other description, I see it it as an 'inaccessible' woman, too expensive, too demanding, too beautiful, too whatever, requiring to sacrifice everything if need be.

    Now, what EXACTLY is dvd about? Creating such image on stage? A diva-vamp image?

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Ariadne's Avatar
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    Product Description
    Jeniviva shows you step-by-step how to create three fantasy looks: The Victorian Vampire Femme Fatale, the Flapper Vamp, and the Gothic Lolita. She demonstrates meticulously every stage of makeup application, from base to decorative accents, teaches you methods of color, texture, and tools selection; offers tutorials on hair styling, and shares ideas for costuming and accessorizing your look on a budget, often using items you can already find in your own closet.

    Though I understand there has been some objections to her version of the Gothic Lolita as the traditional Gothic Lolita comes from Japan and is coy or innocent rather then sexy.

    Either way as someone who loves gaslamp fantasy I have GOT to have this. The tutorial on finger waves would suck me in even without the Victorian Gothic look.

  8. #18
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    I always had the idea in my head that a Femme Fatal was a beautiful woman who could get away with anything, including murder, just because she's so beautiful.

  9. #19
    V.I.P. Greek Bonfire's Avatar
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    If a man did the equivalent of what a femme fatale is, he would be considered a very successful man who is confident enough and dashing enough to go after what he wants. He would also be called a hero.

    Double standard in my experience.

  10. #20
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    I dunno. A guy who uses his beauty and charisma to get away with anything and leave bodies in the path while doing it is at best a jerk and at worst a sociopath, same as a woman doing the same.
    "Well, now that we have seen each other," said the unicorn " if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you."

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