Have you ever had to deal with pervs?

[Sherezade]

It might be a stupid thread, but I started thinking about it because of the conversation in "He said what?!" where we have been discussing about some bellydancers being called wh*res and so on.

Given the (sad) fact that some people see us as sluts, has it ever happened to any of you who have already performed live, to have to get rid of pervs who try to touch you or even just verbally disturb you? What about even other women accusing you of being wh*res? How did you deal with the situation?

Sorry, I don't mean to invade your privacy or make you bring up bad memories, but who knows it might be useful for those who have never performed live but will some day?

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[LilithNoor]

There's a guy who shows up to the open stage night every year at Gothla UK dressed in a cheap hipscarf and a white shirt unbuttoned to the waist. He wanders around the dancefloor doing bad undulations and trying to get within grinding distance of any girl not smart enough to avoid him. Creep to the max!

 

[Sherezade]

There's a guy who shows up to the open stage night every year at Gothla UK dressed in a cheap hipscarf and a white shirt unbuttoned to the waist. He wanders around the dancefloor doing bad undulations and trying to get within grinding distance of any girl not smart enough to avoid him. Creep to the max!

How stupid and annoying. Did the security at least do something to stop him?

 

[LilithNoor]

oops, should have clarified this was after the performance section, when the venue was opened to the public for general dancing and mayhem.

If he'd been trying that on while people were performing we wouldn't have waited for security; he'd have been beaten to death with someone's dreadlocks!

 

[Greek Bonfire]

This was my worst one. I was at a hafla and saw a guy who I thought lived near me so I asked him if, in fact, he did because he was talking to someone about mutual acquaintenances. I didn't realize it at the time but the guy was stinking drunk and took that as a come on. So when I was standing by the bar with my friends, he came up behind me and put his hands on my naked waist. Then because the place was really loud, I yelled enough for him to hear (twice) to take his hands off of me. He was really mad, telling everybody around that I was asking for it. In fact, his friends who were just as drunk, actually sobered up a little and were embarrassed by their friend. Luckily, I was with a couple of guy friends and they wanted to sort of "talk to him" if you get my drift, but he left shortly because everybody in the place saw what he did and nobody defended HIM.

 

[BellaBohemian]

I've yet to have something as extreme as being called a whore or have someone try to get touchy-feely with me; its mostly been come-ons and other remarks. Every year at this one event there is a guy who shows up just to see some girls shake it. He tries to yell over the music "yeah girls! Thats what Im talking about. Mmmhmm Shake it!" and other comments, to which it seems to annoy the audience more then it does any of us.
If its more personal, like a guy comming up to me and saying something to the effect of "we'll you're very pretty" I usually just smile or thank them for the compliment then excuse myself before they have the chance to say anything else. If they are being more vulgar then I try not to give them any attention if Im still in costume. However I do have low tolerance for rude people and if Im in street clothes I will probably say something.

I always make sure to bring my boyfriend or at least another male friend with me to every event!! My boyfriend will stand back stage or towards the front of the audience during the show and as soon as it ends he tries to be at least 10 feet away from me so if something does happen then he's right there.

One piece of advice my teacher gave me is to try and never be somewhere alone. If you're walking to your car after a show or if you forgot your veil inside or w/e try to bring at least one other person with you. Be it a troupe member, a friend or family. Pervs are less likely to attack when you're in pack :dance:

 

[LadyLoba]

As I've mentioned in another thread, I have, at various times, encountered a lot of people who think that if you belly dance, it means the next thing you're going to do is strip out of your costume. If it's just verbal, I find that a polite but to the point "Belly dancing is not the same thing as stripping" at least gets the message across that the person they are talking to at that moment is not going to tolerate that.

Touching, I've never had to deal with....I'm not sure what I'd do, but grabbing and trying to grind on people against their wishes is not acceptable..

 

[Imeera]

I haven't performed so nothing like this has happened. But I have had to deal with stupid grins before. You know that lude grin and you know exactly what they are thinking? Its only happened with one person that I had talked to about belly dancing thankfully. It was just polite convosation "What have you been up to" I mentioned I went to classes. He immediately got that stupid grin, I slipped in to the convosation that belly dance wasn't like stripping blahblahblah, he said he knew but even though he said that he still asked me if I would dance for him with that stupid perverted grin on his face, I swiftly batted him down and gave him a piece of my mind. I never talk to him again and avoid him, it was so creepy!!

 

[Farasha Hanem]

It might be a stupid thread, but I started thinking about it because of the conversation in "He said what?!" where we have been discussing about some bellydancers being called wh*res and so on.

Given the (sad) fact that some people see us as sluts, has it ever happened to any of you who have already performed live, to have to get rid of pervs who try to touch you or even just verbally disturb you? What about even other women accusing you of being wh*res? How did you deal with the situation?

Sorry, I don't mean to invade your privacy or make you bring up bad memories, but who knows it might be useful for those who have never performed live but will some day?

Thanks for your cooperation.

Wait...when did this topic escalate into a flame war and had to be sent here? oO;;;;; *confused*

 

[Sherezade]

Wait...when did this topic escalate into a flame war and had to be sent here? oO;;;;; *confused*

Sorry? I'm confused too.

 

[gisela]

Wait...when did this topic escalate into a flame war and had to be sent here? oO;;;;; *confused*

Yes, you are right, it was probably started in the debate-section. I moved it to other dance stuff.

Sherezade, Debate is for threads that turn into a debate so generally, threads should be started in any of the other sections.

No worries if you happen to make a mistake though. We move threads easily.

 

[Sherezade]

Yes, you are right, it was probably started in the debate-section. I moved it to other dance stuff.

Sherezade, Debate is for threads that turn into a debate so generally, threads should be started in any of the other sections.

No worries if you happen to make a mistake though. We move threads easily.

Ok, got it. Thanks!

 

[Crystalllized]

Yes I've had some icky situations with usually drunk people (both women and men) at gigs. Keep snapping zills in front of you to create a space barrier and never turn your back on the trouble makers. Do a couple quick turns and off you go to a safer area.

 

[khanjar]

Ladies, you have to remember the origins of this dance and why it came to be performed in front of a mostly male audience, for the movements, the attire attract the male mind, so in performance today, you will get the same, and there as a performer, you have to deal with it or else don't perform.

Performers and audience are only human after all, we like all other animals respond to stimuli, but humans are the exception in that we can in most cases and most people choose to turn off the receptors of external stimuli, that is until intoxicants are consumed that have the nasty habit of heightening awareness of stimuli and allowing the reaction to it, perhaps even against better judgement when sober.

It is therefore my belief that alcohol, a substance that has been around since perhaps the dawn of mankind, the recipe came in the survival package that included the making of fire, for people have always been people, some more inhibited than others, alcohol is that magic potion that was set to ensure the survival of our species and with that, one may wonder how much of our survival as a species was down to alcohol and how much was planned.

But as a performer, and I have not performed yet, I am aware that a performer of what is to all intents and purposes, a sexy dance is capable of pushing the buttons of an observer, so in that, the performer has a certain responsibility and a power over others. Now in response to the lewd grins and other obvious signs from an audience, one can either notice and wind the bugger up and accept the responsibility, or just ignore the audience and concentrate on your art. The latter in past situations for myself, is to defocus my eyesight until the crowd are just a blur and then concentrate on what I am doing with no detail to distract or annoy me.

Be aware of human nature, for even in this modern world, it has not changed that much, we are as we always were.

 

[LadyFatima]

Personally, I give a lot of credit to the dancers on here who have the patience to deal with rude, pervy people, because I wouldn't give them the satisfaction.

The way I see it (personally speaking), my body is a work of art, a work of art that I don't share with just anybody. Think of a beautiful diamond or a pearl. Now which one is more desirable: the one that gets shared with everyone freely, or the one that has never/rarely been seen by another human being?

Now rude female audience members I wouldn't care about too much because their comments/views are either based on lack of understanding, jealousy, pure ignorace (or maybe even just a crappy personality). But when it comes to pervy male audience members, that irritates me in a whole new way.

I don't like the fact that a lot of men are so used to viewing the female figue as just a sexual stimuli, to the point where in our society, they constantly use that as their excuse for the rude pervy looks and comments.

"Well, I'm a man, what did you expect?"
"I can't help it, it's in my DNA. . ."
Bulls*** (again, in my opinion)

I don't mind them being uneducated about the history of belly dancing and it's original purpose, but I REFUSE to give my sympathies to those individual men who think they're entitled to stare at me (like a hungry lion having a piece of raw meat waved in front of his face), solely based on the fact that he has a Y chromosome. . .

I know I can't force my audience to see my dancing and movements from an artistic point of view, but I can help get that message across, which is why I choose to wear less revealing costumes.
And if it comes to it, I'll never perform in front of a public audience (just for close family, friends or other people I know well.)

Again, I really give tons and tons of credit to those of you who can deal with the rude/creepy/pervy audiences, and still continue to practice your craft with your head held high and a smile on your face (more or less:lol

I mean, I can put up with certain things up to a certain extent, but sometimes I just have to draw a line in the sand. . .:naghty:

 

[khanjar]

Human nature is a problem to some, but never the less, it is human to exhibit human nature, one cannot blame the human for what the human cannot help or in some cases control.

Now one can avoid the attraction if one wants to concentrate on other things, and that simply is to hide flesh and curves for it is that many see as the first pique of interest in the courtship dance.

But as for those that perform at venues, what is the desire of the employer, art or a bit of risque to attract what in the crowd, a place is known for pretty girls it gets a reputation and there attracts the punters. A place gets a reputation for art, and what does it attract, a larger audience or smaller, remember the interests of the employer, what do they want at their venue.

I once went to see what I thought was art, a travelling belly dancer in my town, and what should come gliding onto the floor in front was a very scantily clad large busted woman with Isis wings, who then went on to flaunt her bosom in the beying male audiences faces, that was not the art I went to see, that was more akin to erotic dance, yet it was advertised as belly dance.

You see the problem, belly dance has like it or not got a reputation for anything that might include a few shimmies and the very notion to many a male of an Arabian Nights fantasy is too much to miss.

If one does not want to appeal to human nature, then it is simple cover up and hide what human nature seeks to see.

 

[gisela]

Human nature is a problem to some, but never the less, it is human to exhibit human nature, one cannot blame the human for what the human cannot help or in some cases control.

Well I see what you are saying but I think it is human to have desires and instincts but know when it is ok to act on it and not.

 

[khanjar]

Thankyou, and my comment about the magic inhibition killing wonder drug, for that can make the best the worst, so my view is whatever venue where art is to be taken seriously, alcohol should be banned, because it is very clear, even after all these thousands of years, we cannot handle it's effect.

 

[gisela]

Thankyou, and my comment about the magic inhibition killing wonder drug, for that can make the best the worst, so my view is whatever venue where art is to be taken seriously, alcohol should be banned, because it is very clear, even after all these thousands of years, we cannot handle it's effect.

No more bubbly wine at gallery openings? :shok:noooo!

 

[LadyLoba]

Looking at all these situations overall, I would say it depends on exactly what the person is doing. If it's just some fool with a big mouth in a conversation, simply telling them "no" to whatever distasteful thing they're hoping you'll do, politely shifting the subject, or flat out ignoring them if they won't knock it off usually does the trick....and if it doesn't, they punish themselves by spouting off when nobody is even listening to them and making themselves look even more foolish.

If it's a performance, class, etc...as long as the person isn't being disruptive..just carry on and let them think whatever they're going to think. If it gets to the point that you can't perform...such as some jerk yelling lewd comments so loud you can't focus on your music, or if they're causing a disruption in the audience....the ushers or event organizers/leaders should deal with that by asking the person to either calm down or leave.

Grabbing, groping, cornering, chasing.....that's different. It doesn't matter what you're doing...if you do not consent to being touched by that person in the way they're touching you...then they shouldn't be doing it. If it got to that point, and pulling away from them, moving away from them, and saying "don't touch me" didn't stop them...then I would speak to the manager or whoever is in charge about having the person removed.