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Thread: Turkish style

  1. #91
    Member Kiraze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan View Post
    So the dance style with the spoons or zills where they are doing that basic side step is called misket? I wondered what it was called. Its very simple, but I love it, makes me want to join in the fun

    The Kocheck stuff is interesting. There are tons of clips on youtube. I remember when people were saying no such thing existed any more, now they've resurfaced all over the place. I've noticed there are differences. some of them dance to davul and Zurna music, (some times the fiddle also) only, some use claranet and jumbush, (banjo), some of them dance to saz, and darbuka.
    Tarik, this is a dance I personally do not much know about but as my hubby is from Yozgat this is also a style we are used to dance a lot at different occasions. I am not even sure about if Misket is the correct name as that is what our friends call it but I have also heard this been called Ankara Havasi (simply Ankara dance) or Ankara Oyun Havasi - actually dance of Pavyons is often referred as Oyun Havasi so there can be different nuances as common folks definately do not use zills - and spoons are not very typical either for Central Anatolian dances but I have seen them used even at country side weddings so this would be a subject I also would like to know more about...

    But this is fun style anyway - steps and movements can be connected with lyrics also, which are often very funny (and can be a bit naughty too). Unfortunately I am terrible in making any translations as my Turkish is still very basic and this kind of songs are very easy to understand wrongly.

    I think that Köceks are still often seen at country side where they perform as pro performes at e.g. weddings (as female performers are not allowed) - this again is an interesting subject I would like to know more from Turkish sources that have real music and dance background (like Tayyar Akdeniz or some guys who have visited here at the forum occasionally). Using different instruments however is typical for locations with all the folk dances: davul and zurna are used outdoors -indoors you can have clarinets, saz, violin etc...

  2. #92
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    Default Nesrin Topkapi's performance


  3. #93
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    thanksssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss

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    That was an absolutely beautiful and captivating perfromance!!
    Yasmine

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaleCakir View Post
    WONDERFUL!!! This was one of the most beutiful veil dances I've ever seen. Nesrin still rules Thank you so much for posting Hale Teshekür ederim arkadash.

  6. #96
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    Default Turkish Style - commentary

    Hi All;

    Artemis Mourat here. I will start with a confession that I hardly ever get a chance to read the forums because I am traveling more than I am home. But I just joined Oriental dancer and I am very much interested in this thread. I promise to peek in here from time to time. This is a wonderful thread and full of intelligent questions and answers. Thank you for your kind words about my workshops and my DVDs and such. If you want to know more about Turkish style and Egyptian style dance than what I can put here, you can go to my website at www.serpentine.org and click into an article that I wrote which includes a lot of information about topic. I have another article there too about skirt dancing (which is NOT Turkish). I will address some of the points that have been made on this thread...

    I respectfully disagree with Chyrssanthi Saher. I like many of her posts and she is a truly remarkable authority on many things. In fact, we share some heritage and experience...My father is a Greek born in Turkey and my family was there for over 300 years so we, (in my family) are what people sometimes call "Turkish Greeks." I have been to Turkey 16 times and have done field research there and I too have danced at hundreds and hundreds of Turkish parties and at Turkish, Greek and Arabic clubs. There IS artistry and complexity and sophistication in both Turkish Oriental and Egyptian style dance and music. It is, however different in many ways. They share a great deal of history and they have cross pollinated for centuries but they are born on different continents and the lineage is different for each style of dance. The Turkish Rromany dances are the mother of Turkish Oriental dance. This cannot be denied when you trace the lineage. Unfortunately the Turkish Oriental dancers are not incorporating it into their shows as much as they once did.

    As for the karsilama, the confusion may come from the fact that there are many different versions and usages for the 9/8 time signature in both Turkey and in Greece - some folkloric, some Rromany and also some Oriental. The 9/8 time signature that we grew up with in the US cabarets, has the accented beats on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9 and this is rarely heard in Turkey today. Anahid Sofian coined the expression "Cabaret Karsilama" when referring to this. What you typically hear in Turkey now is what many of us are calling the "Romany 9/8." The accented beats are on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 8. The ninth beat is present but silent. The tempo can range from very slow to lightning fast. The 9/8s are not the only rhythms that Oriental dancers have used in Turkey but they get the most attention when people are making differentiations between Turkish and Egyptian Oriental dance. The Turkish bands are not usually the big orchestras you find in Egypt. So this can explain why the music does not seem as highly complex - it is not as heavily orchestrated.

    There is an explosion of good Turkish music coming from Turkey now. Tayyar Akdeniz has a new CD coming out now and it is being recorded as I write this. I am hoping he will have them for sale when he returns to the US later this month. This is an instructional music CD about Turkish dance music and also has lots of cuts quite suitable for performances and teaching. He actually teaches the rhythms for each song on the CD.

    There is also confusion about the Oriental dancers and the dance style in Turkey as you see it today today. Many of them are using Arabic music and they are imitating Egyptian and even some Oriental American dance styling. There are also many foreign dancers in Turkey too, many of whom are very pretty but not particularly good dancers. Unfortunately these are often the entertainers for the tourist clubs so when Oriental dancers come to these shows in Turkey, they are confused about what good Turkish Oriental dance really is. But there are superb dancers in Turkey too. Sema Yildiz and Birgul Beray are great. Tayyar Akdeniz is a famous Folk dancer but he can teach wonderful Oriental and Rromany dance (in English too). Reyhan is becoming quite popular for teaching Rromany. Tulay Karaca is one of the very best Turkish Oriental dancers ever but she is retired. Nesrin Topkapi, is the other all time great Turkish dancer but she has retired from performing. Nesrin and Birgul are among our many teachers at our AlaTurka Dance and Music Festival in Istanbul this late August and early September (www.folktours.com...we also have Egyptian dance taught there too by Sahra Saeeda and Nourhan Sharif). Didem and Aseena are very good too but they are fusing other elements into their dance. The dance style that Eva Cernik and I perform and teach are closer to what was being performed there before this newest generation began fusing outside forms so heavily. That being said, Turkish Oriental dance has always had other elements fused into it (look at the history of Turkey and the size and scope of the Ottoman Empire to see why). It is, however, my fervent hope that the fusing does not become so extensive that the original style is lost.

    I hope you find this helpful!
    Happy Spring!

    Artemis Mourat, MA, MSW

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemisdances View Post
    Hi All;

    Artemis Mourat here. I will start with a confession that I hardly ever get a chance to read the forums because I am traveling more than I am home. But I just joined Oriental dancer and I am very much interested in this thread. I promise to peek in here from time to time. This is a wonderful thread and full of intelligent questions and answers. Thank you for your kind words about my workshops and my DVDs and such. If you want to know more about Turkish style and Egyptian style dance than what I can put here, you can go to my website at www.serpentine.org and click into an article that I wrote which includes a lot of information about topic. I have another article there too about skirt dancing (which is NOT Turkish). I will address some of the points that have been made on this thread...

    I respectfully disagree with Chyrssanthi Saher. I like many of her posts and she is a truly remarkable authority on many things. In fact, we share some heritage and experience...My father is a Greek born in Turkey and my family was there for over 300 years so we, (in my family) are what people sometimes call "Turkish Greeks." I have been to Turkey 16 times and have done field research there and I too have danced at hundreds and hundreds of Turkish parties and at Turkish, Greek and Arabic clubs. There IS artistry and complexity and sophistication in both Turkish Oriental and Egyptian style dance and music. It is, however different in many ways. They share a great deal of history and they have cross pollinated for centuries but they are born on different continents and the lineage is different for each style of dance. The Turkish Rromany dances are the mother of Turkish Oriental dance. This cannot be denied when you trace the lineage. Unfortunately the Turkish Oriental dancers are not incorporating it into their shows as much as they once did.

    As for the karsilama, the confusion may come from the fact that there are many different versions and usages for the 9/8 time signature in both Turkey and in Greece - some folkloric, some Rromany and also some Oriental. The 9/8 time signature that we grew up with in the US cabarets, has the accented beats on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9 and this is rarely heard in Turkey today. Anahid Sofian coined the expression "Cabaret Karsilama" when referring to this. What you typically hear in Turkey now is what many of us are calling the "Romany 9/8." The accented beats are on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 8. The ninth beat is present but silent. The tempo can range from very slow to lightning fast. The 9/8s are not the only rhythms that Oriental dancers have used in Turkey but they get the most attention when people are making differentiations between Turkish and Egyptian Oriental dance. The Turkish bands are not usually the big orchestras you find in Egypt. So this can explain why the music does not seem as highly complex - it is not as heavily orchestrated.

    There is an explosion of good Turkish music coming from Turkey now. Tayyar Akdeniz has a new CD coming out now and it is being recorded as I write this. I am hoping he will have them for sale when he returns to the US later this month. This is an instructional music CD about Turkish dance music and also has lots of cuts quite suitable for performances and teaching. He actually teaches the rhythms for each song on the CD.

    There is also confusion about the Oriental dancers and the dance style in Turkey as you see it today today. Many of them are using Arabic music and they are imitating Egyptian and even some Oriental American dance styling. There are also many foreign dancers in Turkey too, many of whom are very pretty but not particularly good dancers. Unfortunately these are often the entertainers for the tourist clubs so when Oriental dancers come to these shows in Turkey, they are confused about what good Turkish Oriental dance really is. But there are superb dancers in Turkey too. Sema Yildiz and Birgul Beray are great. Tayyar Akdeniz is a famous Folk dancer but he can teach wonderful Oriental and Rromany dance (in English too). Reyhan is becoming quite popular for teaching Rromany. Tulay Karaca is one of the very best Turkish Oriental dancers ever but she is retired. Nesrin Topkapi, is the other all time great Turkish dancer but she has retired from performing. Nesrin and Birgul are among our many teachers at our AlaTurka Dance and Music Festival in Istanbul this late August and early September (www.folktours.com...we also have Egyptian dance taught there too by Sahra Saeeda and Nourhan Sharif). Didem and Aseena are very good too but they are fusing other elements into their dance. The dance style that Eva Cernik and I perform and teach are closer to what was being performed there before this newest generation began fusing outside forms so heavily. That being said, Turkish Oriental dance has always had other elements fused into it (look at the history of Turkey and the size and scope of the Ottoman Empire to see why). It is, however, my fervent hope that the fusing does not become so extensive that the original style is lost.

    I hope you find this helpful!
    Happy Spring!

    Artemis Mourat, MA, MSW

    Thanks for the info Artemis! I am new to this and I am learning. Some of what you talked about went right over my head, but I did understand some of it. I am starting my first class in a couple of weeks. Up until now I have just practiced basic moves from Delilah's workshop series. I did not realize you were so famous in the BD world. I am going to look you up.! Welcome to the forum and I will look forward to your posts. I am also from the states, Minnesota and I wish spring would sprung!

  8. #98
    Junior Member Hyacinth's Avatar
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    Thanks Artemis!

  9. #99
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    In the Ottoman term,Turks explored the bellydance from some arab countries such as Egypt,Tunisia,Morocco.Because The Ottoman Empire managed these countries for a long time.

    After the foundation of the republic, ''gazino'' culture started to spread in Istanbul (especially in 70's)Gazino is a restaurant and a night club where the popular turkish folk and the turkish art singers performed.Rich people was coming to these clubs.Some belly dancers performed at these clubs.Their style was the amateur imitation of the egyptian style.They attracted attention with their costumes,not with their dance.

    Nesrin Topkapi is the first dancer who appears on TV in Turkey(31 December 1980,on TRT, a public TV of Turkey).Her costume was so closed(long skirt,black dress).After the this performance lots of people knowed and adored her and bellydance.Her developed technque didn't resemble the other dancers's who performs at gazinos.

    At the beginnig of 90's, private TV's, which depend on some companies, started to open.These TV's displayed lots of bellydancers at the New Year's Eves.The examples of these dancers are Sibel Baris,Sibel Gokce,Tanyeli,Leyla Adali,Pinar Elice,Zinnur Karaca,Azra etc...
    They developed the bellydance technique(Oval hip movements, floorworks, bellyrolls, hand and arm figures).Some of these dancers attracted attention with their costumes(short skirts,small bras).Because of these costume, some people thought bellydancing like the striptease and thought bellydancers like strippers.

    The examples of turkish belly dancing on 90's

    Pinar Elice


    Leyla Adali


    Sibel Gokce


    Since the end of the 90's, ''turkish bellydance'' style has started to be clear.(sharp and big hip movements and shimmnies, bellyrols, floorworks,sharp breast figures, body vibration etc.).Many dancers appeared such as Asena,Zumre,Didem,Elcin,Buket,Hale Sultan...

    Elcin


    Didem


    Asena


    These are only my observations.
    Last edited by turkishboy; 05-26-2007 at 01:03 PM.

  10. #100
    Member Kiraze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishboy View Post
    In the Ottoman term,Turks explored the bellydance from some arab countries such as Egypt,Tunisia,Morocco.Because The Ottoman Empire managed these countries for a long time...

    After the foundation of the republic, ''gazino'' culture started to spread in Istanbul (especially in 70's)Gazino is a restaurant and a night club where the popular turkish folk and the turkish art singers performed.Rich people was coming to these clubs.Some belly dancers performed at these clubs.Their style was the amateur imitation of the egyptian style.They attracted attention with their costumes,not with their dance...

    Since the end of the 90's, ''turkish bellydance'' style has started to be clear.(sharp and big hip movements and shimmnies, bellyrols, floorworks,sharp breast figures, body vibration etc.)...

    These are only my observations.
    Interesting observations but I do not agree on most of them

    Of course there were SOME influences during Ottoman times coming from Egypt but I would say that influence from Morocco and Tunis was minimal and the clearest influences were those of gypsies and of Central Asia - in fact during Ottoman times it was more Turkish dance that influenced Egyptian dance than vice versa.

    After Ottoman empire collapsed besides gypsy dancers many court dancers also started to dance in public so that added even more Central Asian, Persian and Russian influences to dance as most of the court dancers were coming from those areas (according to writings of Metin And it was not dignified to Turks to dance). Nightclubs of Istanbul started to provide belly dance already during 20´s when influence from Egypt was minimal - and this influence has been minimal until 90´s so dancers of 70´s did NOT make any amateur imitation of Egyptian style (of course it is possible that some did) but they danced style that was still heavily influenced by gypsies. Some most famous dancers like Prenses Banu danced also a lot outside Turkey so her style got lots of influences from Arab style (Lebanon and Gulf more than Egypt) but things like playing zills, floorwork, sharp and big hip movements, bellyrolls etc. existed already before 90´s and luckily they still do

    Dancers of 90´s in fact started to loose their "Turkishness" as they were so heavily involved with European/American/Egyptian dancers and DVD:s started to be easily available - because of dance tourists many started to think that it is finer to dance Egyptian style and so many took away all the Turkish influences from their dancing and started to study Egyptian style but I would still say that biggest influence to current Turkish style has come from Germany

    At the moment it looks that there is at least small scale "comeback" of more Turkish style and current modern style still continues to evolve - I myself hope that better Turkish music could be available so using that would be as easy as using Arab classics. According to Hale Sultan i met last week there is also more light in the tunnel as there is a new oriental dance branch lead by Asena under Ministry of Culture (or some other ministry... I have to check this) so hopefully this means that also belly dance will be approved as art and as a part of Turkish tradition

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