Zills Drills

[frandancer01]

Can someone recommend some good audio and/or video-based lessons for zills combos? We don't practice them in every class, and when I get home to do so, I don't feel I'm very efficient at it. I'd like to find more at-home "direct instruction" that will allow me to learn as well as practice.

TIA!

Glad to hear your on your way. I live on a farm so the only ones that wonder about the strange noise is the horses, cows and chooks, Oh and the dogs. If you are interestesd in ATS I found a great online Studio. Skindeep Dance in Seatelle. They have online classes and flash cards for drills for each step. It costs $25 per month and you can access it 24/7 whenever you have time which is great for people like me who live in the country and don't have a local teacher.

Look up About Us - Skin Deep Dance and click on virtual studio.

Happy dancing.

 

[astro_girl]

I found this interview a while back:

Suhaila's Interview

Based on that and another interview I heard of Suhaila (source?), it sounds like she ended up quietly sneaking around her angrily complacent husband until they later divorced? Sad story, but she certainly seems to be a personality to be reckoned with. And...it sounds like all of her tribal influence really took off after Suhaila became a little older...after she was divorced?

And COOL...even paying half the annual fee is a bit steep and I'd really have to sweet talk my DH into agreeing to that, haha! But I've been online constantly watching as many videos as possible, and even without the direct instruction I'm really understanding a lot of things I would have a hard time getting from my regular instructors. I'm certainly game if there are a few others who are willing to split the cost...would you like me to pm you either way, or wait until we hear from others? I couldn't think of a good place here to solicit interest, or wasn't sure if it was legit. w.r.t. the forum rules.

I heard once that she quit dancing when Suhaila started her professional career, but I can't confirm that. Other sources say she quit performing professionally after she got married, which is more in line with what she herself has said.

...

Well, I'm up for it ! -- I'd love it if maybe 3 or 4 of us could do this, to keep the costs down. I'm level 1 certified so I have access to the level 3 classes, so if you think you'd like to do the annual membership, PM me or let me know.

 

[DesertRoseSamira]

This thread seems to have all sorts of DVDs and CDs to check out, not sure what to buy in the future. I just started ATS level 1 and we would be needing zills in future classes. I just bought my first pair for $17 and would probably buying one of the DVDs or CDs listed in the future to practice with zills at home while in between classes.

I might buy Jamila's CD later, it seems to be a reasonable price and heard many good things about it. I also liked Ansuya's.

I'm glad for this forum and thread, sure helps making decisions easier.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Samira, since you're taking ATS classes, you'll probably want the Fat Chance dvd that covers cymbals -- I'm not sure which volume this is, though.

ATS is a structured form, with specific cymbal patterns used, so your mileage may vary when it comes to the usefulness of the other, Oriental-focused, cymbal dvds.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Of the dvd trailers I viewed (for zills dvd's in both the sticky thread as well as in this point), the Michelle Joyce title seems to attract me w/the style of teaching (showing numbers and fingers). Can you provide any additional information on this dvd?

I was able to learn the best from it when I couldn't pick it up from any other. Elsa Leandro has a good video but Michelle's kick started me into finally starting to get it. My friends also had great luck with it. Of course, you should try the others that are suggested here because they will build on what Michelle gets you started with.

I don't think there is a video that teaches you everything so you may have to learn from a few.

 

[astro_girl]

I don't think there is a video that teaches you everything so you may have to learn from a few.

You are right about that! I have practiced a number of hours this week w/Michelle's dvd (as well as Jamila's cd in my car while waiting to pick up my daughter from school!), and really like it.

What I find I'm becoming interested in as well is learning the different time signatures and what they mean. Hopefully in the sense that when I end up performing to drum solos (non-choreographed/taqsim) that I can learn to determine how to incorporate some of the common zill patterns into the music, as well as create my own that will go with the music. Make sense?

I have not found instructional materials that break down what the different time signatures mean in a way that I can comprehend, coming from a background of little formal music training. For instance, I just received Uncle Mafufo's cd in the mail the other day and have listened to it over and over. He designates several common rhythms in 4/4, 6/8, 9/8, etc...but I don't know really what these mean or how to decide which combo of patterns to incorporate into these so that they mesh well. I "think" the time signatures have something to do w/how many times a given "stanza?" or pattern repeats within an 8 count(?), but this is not the correct way to interpret it. Further suggestions anyone?

 

[shiradotnet]

Have you seen the finger cymbal drill pages on my web site?

There's a drill page for Arabic 4/4 rhythms (such as baladi, maqsoum, Saidi, etc.) and a drill page for Turkish 9/8 rhythms. There are also reviews of some instructional books and videos: Shira's Online Finger Cymbal Workshop

 

[astro_girl]

Have you seen the finger cymbal drill pages on my web site?

There's a drill page for Arabic 4/4 rhythms (such as baladi, maqsoum, Saidi, etc.) and a drill page for Turkish 9/8 rhythms. There are also reviews of some instructional books and videos: Shira's Online Finger Cymbal Workshop

Hi Shira:

Yes, I have it bookmarked bc it's been the most helpful resource I've found to date! Starting w/one quote from your site (from the 4/4 page): ""4/4" means there are four beats to a measure and a quarter note gets one count."

This is exactly the kind of thing I want to learn more about - but with all the rhythms! And "hearing" these words interpreted into music is what gets through to my thick gourd. I love that your online guide offers the sound clips of each rhythm, and it's through this webpage that I've begun to deconstruct (at least) the 4 methodologies of writing the patterns: numeric sound pattern, spoken as, which hand to use, and the counting diagram. I almost need to step back further (I think) and look for some more elementary theory about the difference in sound and notation between 4/4 and all the other time measures like 6/8, 9/8, etc. Does this make better sense?

That being said, I didn't pay close enough attention to remember which additional instructional resources you listed so I'll go back and take a look. I have one instructor who plays very much to the patterns (reminds me of what I'm hearing on Jamila's cd), and another instructor who plays very "free form", for lack of better term. She mainly just plays w/the music and does not follow set rhythms. I'd like to be somewhere in between, but at least in the beginning to err more on the side of using many established patterns w/the proper rhythms.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

What I find I'm becoming interested in as well is learning the different time signatures and what they mean. Hopefully in the sense that when I end up performing to drum solos (non-choreographed/taqsim) that I can learn to determine how to incorporate some of the common zill patterns into the music, as well as create my own that will go with the music. Make sense?

There are time signatures, but then there are also drum "riff" repeats. Let me try to make this make sense.

Malfouf is a 2-beat rhythm, in 2/4 time. (For practical dance purposes we only really look at the top number in the time signature, which tells us how many beats we should be counting.

BUT

Malfouf is very typically played by drummers as 3 measure of malfouf, and then 3 loud DUM DUM DUMs. Sorta like:

Dum, tec-tec | Dum, tec-tec | Dum, tec-tec | DUMDUMDUM

This is what I consider a repeating drum phrase.

A lot of drummers will play 3 repeats of a riff or a rhythm, and then change that on the 4th repeat.

The BEST way to learn what drummers typically do is to just listen to a LOT of drum solos.

(This is also, in my opinion, the best way to learn the maqams -- just listen to a lot of taqsims or solo-voice pieces in one particular maqam until you get used to the sound patterns a singer or player will make during the progression of the maqam.)

He designates several common rhythms in 4/4, 6/8, 9/8, etc...but I don't know really what these mean or how to decide which combo of patterns to incorporate into these so that they mesh well.

The top number tells you how many beats are in a measure. Or basically pretend you're a conductor and think of it as how many times you would bring the baton down, or clap, or tap your feet before the rhythm starts all over again.

4/4 and 2/4 can be confusing, and can sound the same. If you confuse a 2/4 and a 4/4 don't be surprised. I still do. A lot of Turkish music is actually 2/4 but to me it sounds like the rhythm takes 4 counts to finish its phrase, but it's actually just 2 counts.

3/4 and 6/8 are pretty easy to hear -- those sound like waltzes. ONE-two-three, ONE-two-three.

9/8 is Turkic/Central Asiatic, and you'd think it would be counted one-two-three, four-five-six, seven-eight-nine -- like a waltz, but instead it's usually counted in 2s with a final 3:

1-2, 1-2, 1-2, 123

I "think" the time signatures have something to do w/how many times a given "stanza?" or pattern repeats

Musicians will say this is not "grammatically" correct, but I think you have the gist of it. For a 4-count rhythm, it basically takes 4 beats before the rhythm starts over again.

BUT

You have to be aware of the common pattern repeats (like the one I mentioned with malfouf) otherwise you'll think malfouf is actually the whole phrase , including the DUMDUMDUM at the end.


In most drum solos (actually most music in general) you won't find the whole song in just one rhythm, and usually the musician is not so kind as to play the rhythm exactly how we learn it on CDs They vary the patterns a LOT, and that can be confusing when you're trying to identify the rhythm and dance to it. Again, this is why working with a lot of drum solo cds is a good idea

 

[astro_girl]

OK...I like your explanations. The lightbulb got a little bit brighter. A little bit. :lol: But yes, the counts (or swipes of a conductor's wand, etc.) makes a lot of sense.

And, to some frustration I have experienced the varying ways that musicians play so-called common rhythms. After all, it is art I suppose. What makes it difficult to learn in the beginning, I suppose makes it more beautiful to listen to. Thanks! Food for further thought.

There are time signatures, but then there are also drum "riff" repeats. Let me try to make this make sense.

Malfouf is a 2-beat rhythm, in 2/4 time. (For practical dance purposes we only really look at the top number in the time signature, which tells us how many beats we should be counting.

BUT

Malfouf is very typically played by drummers as 3 measure of malfouf, and then 3 loud DUM DUM DUMs. Sorta like:

Dum, tec-tec | Dum, tec-tec | Dum, tec-tec | DUMDUMDUM

This is what I consider a repeating drum phrase.

A lot of drummers will play 3 repeats of a riff or a rhythm, and then change that on the 4th repeat.

The BEST way to learn what drummers typically do is to just listen to a LOT of drum solos.

(This is also, in my opinion, the best way to learn the maqams -- just listen to a lot of taqsims or solo-voice pieces in one particular maqam until you get used to the sound patterns a singer or player will make during the progression of the maqam.)




The top number tells you how many beats are in a measure. Or basically pretend you're a conductor and think of it as how many times you would bring the baton down, or clap, or tap your feet before the rhythm starts all over again.

4/4 and 2/4 can be confusing, and can sound the same. If you confuse a 2/4 and a 4/4 don't be surprised. I still do. A lot of Turkish music is actually 2/4 but to me it sounds like the rhythm takes 4 counts to finish its phrase, but it's actually just 2 counts.

3/4 and 6/8 are pretty easy to hear -- those sound like waltzes. ONE-two-three, ONE-two-three.

9/8 is Turkic/Central Asiatic, and you'd think it would be counted one-two-three, four-five-six, seven-eight-nine -- like a waltz, but instead it's usually counted in 2s with a final 3:

1-2, 1-2, 1-2, 123




Musicians will say this is not "grammatically" correct, but I think you have the gist of it. For a 4-count rhythm, it basically takes 4 beats before the rhythm starts over again.

BUT

You have to be aware of the common pattern repeats (like the one I mentioned with malfouf) otherwise you'll think malfouf is actually the whole phrase , including the DUMDUMDUM at the end.


In most drum solos (actually most music in general) you won't find the whole song in just one rhythm, and usually the musician is not so kind as to play the rhythm exactly how we learn it on CDs They vary the patterns a LOT, and that can be confusing when you're trying to identify the rhythm and dance to it. Again, this is why working with a lot of drum solo cds is a good idea

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

And, to some frustration I have experienced the varying ways that musicians play so-called common rhythms.

In my (rather limited) experience with live professional drummers, they will play a recognizable version of the rhythm about twice, and then go off on some bizarre tangent that you've never heard and will never hear again


It's a great idea to collect as many rhythm id CDs as you can afford, just to get used to hearing a variety of versions of one rhythm. Suhaila has some, Nourhan has some, Jalilah has one, Uncle Mafufo has a couple, Billy Woods has one ... And the DVD Heartbeat of Bellydance (made by World Dance New York) has a great section on drum rhythms and dancing to them.

 

[astro_girl]

In my (rather limited) experience with live professional drummers, they will play a recognizable version of the rhythm about twice, and then go off on some bizarre tangent that you've never heard and will never hear again


It's a great idea to collect as many rhythm id CDs as you can afford, just to get used to hearing a variety of versions of one rhythm. Suhaila has some, Nourhan has some, Jalilah has one, Uncle Mafufo has a couple, Billy Woods has one ... And the DVD Heartbeat of Bellydance (made by World Dance New York) has a great section on drum rhythms and dancing to them.

Great suggestions, and ayeee...I have Uncle M.'s and the Heartbeat of BD already! Will check out the others as well.

 

[Daimona]

Samira, since you're taking ATS classes, you'll probably want the Fat Chance dvd that covers cymbals -- I'm not sure which volume this is, though.

FCBD Tribal Basics Vol. 3 Zils

ATS is a structured form, with specific cymbal patterns used, so your mileage may vary when it comes to the usefulness of the other, Oriental-focused, cymbal dvds.

And vice versa: If you are oriental-focused (and have some musical theory in your background), this is not the DVD you want.

 

[DesertRoseSamira]

Samira, since you're taking ATS classes, you'll probably want the Fat Chance dvd that covers cymbals -- I'm not sure which volume this is, though.

ATS is a structured form, with specific cymbal patterns used, so your mileage may vary when it comes to the usefulness of the other, Oriental-focused, cymbal dvds.

I believe it is volume three that focuses mainly on zills, but I am not sure. I just ordered the first volume as the teacher recommended it and I think it also talks a little bit about zills.

Thanks for the advice. Still new and have a lot to learn.

Edit-I guess I was right about which volume, thanks Daimona.

 

[Daimona]

I believe it is volume three that focuses mainly on zills, but I am not sure. I just ordered the first volume as the teacher recommended it and I think it also talks a little bit about zills.

You're welcome, Samira. Vol. 1 has a small chapter about zils as well, but if I remember correctly (it has been a while since I saw it), they refer to vol. 3 for further instruction.

 

[shiradotnet]

I believe it is volume three that focuses mainly on zills, but I am not sure. I just ordered the first volume as the teacher recommended it and I think it also talks a little bit about zills.

Thanks for the advice. Still new and have a lot to learn.

Edit-I guess I was right about which volume, thanks Daimona.

It is Volume 3, and there is a review of it on my web site at this link: Tribal Basics Volume 3 - Zils, by Carolena Nericcio of FatChanceBellyDance: A Video Review By Shira

 

[Rashidah]

Good to know it that there is more than just this one dvd with Ansuya about zills. The first one is really good.

Thank you a lot for this info

 

[Serpentine]

May I suggest Artemis's Zill Speak - Vol 1 of the 2 part Cymbals Speak? It has a 40 page instructional booklet included with the CD. Many people love it.
Amazon.com: Zill Speak - How to Play Finger Cymbals from A(lmee) to Z(ills): Elizabeth Artemis Mourat: Music

Vol 2 Sagat Speak teaches Egyptian patterns with the numbers as well. That too has a 40 page booklet - but is designed for sagat rather than zills. This article explains the difference:
Gilded Serpent, Belly Dance News & Events , You Say Zills, I say Sagat

For rhythm identifications - this CD has 25 different rhythms and 31 tracks:
The Henkesh Brothers | Pulse of the Sphinx: Volume 2 - Rhythm Drills | CD Baby
You can listen to samples on line and download the whole album. It is played by the Henkesh Brothers from Egypt.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

May I suggest Artemis's Zill Speak - Vol 1 of the 2 part Cymbals Speak? It has a 40 page instructional booklet included with the CD. Many people love it.
Amazon.com: Zill Speak - How to Play Finger Cymbals from A(lmee) to Z(ills): Elizabeth Artemis Mourat: Music

Vol 2 Sagat Speak teaches Egyptian patterns with the numbers as well. That too has a 40 page booklet - but is designed for sagat rather than zills. This article explains the difference:
Gilded Serpent, Belly Dance News & Events , You Say Zills, I say Sagat

For rhythm identifications - this CD has 25 different rhythms and 31 tracks:
The Henkesh Brothers | Pulse of the Sphinx: Volume 2 - Rhythm Drills | CD Baby
You can listen to samples on line and download the whole album. It is played by the Henkesh Brothers from Egypt.

I just bought the first two a few months ago and LOVE them!! I don't have the 3rd one yet.

Seriously, the enclosed booklet is worth the purchase price alone. Great job, you guys!!!

 

[Serpentine]

I just bought the first two a few months ago and LOVE them!! I don't have the 3rd one yet. Seriously, the enclosed booklet is worth the purchase price alone. Great job, you guys!!!

Thank you!:redface: