Discouraged

[gypsy]

Discouraged with Zilling

Hey Everyone,
Just started level 2 classes. My last set of level 1 classes were very unchallenging, so I figured it was time to move up. I feel I'm in the right place now except zills are very tricky for me still, which I hear is common.
Today the instructor said to the whole class, that this was level 1 zill stuff and if it's hard we should go back to level 1.
I don't know if she was speaking to the entire class or just some of us, but I feel discouraged that starting a level 2 class we are supposed to be masters of zills with complicated footwork already.
I have practicing like crazy to any decent zill practice videos I can find. Should I be challenged by zills right now or ???

 

[Mosaic]

Don't give up, zills can be very challenging, even some of the best dancers don't always play zills well. I still find them challenging after 7 years. I thought I'd never 'get it' and was so excited when I suddenly seemed to be able to keep the rhythm etc.... about 3 + years down the track from when I first started learning. I can play them now, but will never be an expert. Some of my colleagues are fabulous with zills, but can't work the assaya, whereas I can, the same with the veil. So keep at it. I am surprised that the teacher thinks those who can't play zills should go back to level one. How can one learn if you do that. Some people just take longer ( and if you are like me a lot longer:lol
~Mosaic

 

[gypsy]

Yes, I thought level 2 would teach me to zill while dancing, since level 1 just did zills while walking, so I was surprised she said to take a level 1 class while taking this level 2.

 

[Mosaic]

Zilling & dancing is a coordination thing and where i fell down for ever so long, I could dance - no problem, I could zill standing still OK put the two together and I became either a dancer with 6 uncoordinated hands or an 'average' ziller with 1/2 dozen left feet feet:lol: My teacher would laugh and say there she goes again in her own zilling world LOL! She was so patient with me as she is with everyone who finds something difficult. With me, I need to know the dance inside & out so to speak - have it firmly embedded in muscle memory, then I can work bringing zills in. I do learn any choreos with zills trying to use the zills, but at first don't concentrate on having that part right, if I lose time I stop using them until my heads find the rhythm again ( I stick a finger between the 2 zills to silence them - but gives the impression I am still playing - cheaters zilling) I keep dancing and eventually am able to pick up the zilling in the right place again. Eventually I found that once I had the dance sorted out it was easier to concentrate on the zills. I found that was an easier & less frustrating way for me to learn, because while learning a new choreo one is concentrating on what you are suppose to be committing to memory body & feet wise and if I was chanting in my head 'dum, tek, es, tek etc (some people prefer 123, RLR etc- I still cannot dance with zills using those counts/patterns) I'd forget what my feet are doing

How are you being taught, RL or 123 type of patterns? Until I was taught the drummer beats way, I never had any success with zills. Dum & Tek is R hand Es is L hand. I also took a few doumbek lessons and that helped me to begin to get it together. I'll never make it as a tabla/doumbek player, but its fun to play around with.

On youtube there is a set of 7 little teaching videos by Anthea Kawakib you could practice with at home

here is the first one & the rest of them will show up to the left on youtube. They may help you.

~Mosaic

 

[jenc]

I am so glad we don't do zills in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gypsy]

Mosaic, thanks for the advice!
Funny, these are the exact videos I have been working with and love! Kawakib is my new dance motivation!
We are learning by number counts, which is fine for me.

However, last class was way beyond anything in these videos. New steps being learned while zilling 3-1-3-1-3 (and other patterns I cannot recall now) at fast tempo! All the practice helped my with the zilling while moving and I actually think I'm doing well enough for only having learned zills this winter, but teacher was not impressed!

 

[Shanazel]

Honey, you're something special just for giving zils a try, not to mention working hard on them. I hate the darn things and send any student wanting to study them to my friend Jane who does a nice job of teaching patterns.

 

[goddessyasaman]

Yeah zill's can be tough to learn they are a instrument after all, and thats why some people have to work harder at learning them then others, I play them but it took me about 5 years to get them the way I wanted them just take your time don't rush, it's not a race, just practice, I would listen to songs and play along as well to help me get better, it worked for me, and my teacher was a great teacher I love her she's from turkey and she is a master at the zill's, so take what your teacher shows you and pratice at home. But you know I don't dance with zill's much these days since my dance style has changed over time but it's nice to know how if I care to play, they are nice to play when dancing

 

[astro_girl]

The other girls had great advice, and I have basically nothing new except to encourage you to speak with your instructor directly (don't be afraid), and ask her for some specific areas where you can focus your at-home drilling efforts. She may or may not be referring to you when she mentions going back to level 1, but you'll never know until you ask.

I am struggling with zills myself, and am FINALLY feeling my "muscle memory" kick in when I dance and zill at the same time. After all, we can't expect to learn to play a new instrument AND dance at the same time right away. If this was so, zilling and dancing would be nothing special to watch.

 

[LilithNoor]

I am so glad we don't do zills in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You and me both. Not that there aren't plenty of dancers who play beautifully, but as someone who struggles with left and right at the best of times, I'm relieved that I don't need to be able to play sagat to be a good dancer (I just need to be good at everything else)

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Just when I was really getting good at zills, I had to slow down as it was bothering my carpel tunnel scars!

It will come to you though, just keep practicing. What I did was to do one movement with zills until I got it, then did more and more until I did a whole song. I find it funny though, that you have to be totally proficient for just a level 2 class.

 

[gypsy]

Thanks everyone for the supportive words. I was venting and knew you guys would listen!
I actually like zills and am eager to get better with them, but my 'happy' took a blow when the instructor said we needed to catch up already.
I've ordered Ansuyas Zill dvd and Killer Ziller, hopefully they will help me get my feet and hips doing the right things while I zill.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Gypsy, you are at a really cool place in your education, actually.

This is where you are going to start seeing improvement in leaps and bounds, if you keep at it.

It's very challenging to actually DANCE with cymbals, yes. And EVERYBODY starts off feeling very uncomfortable and uncoordinated with them. BUT, in just a few short months of practice you will be AMAZED at your progress.

Try it 2 ways -- learn the patterns by just walking around and playing them. Once you are comfortable with a few of the patterns, then try doing simple combinations while playing those patterns. Or play over one of your beginner practice dvds. Playing while practicing with a beginner dvd you are familiar with will really improve your coordination and your confidence.

Give it 6 months and report back I'll bet you'll look back on this thread and think "wow, I'm awesome now!"

Your teacher is issuing a challenge to you. Are you up for it? I think so

 

[Creaky Old Dancer]

Hi Gypsy, zill playing is really hard took me years and then one day I got it. I think that is the way it happens with most of us. Great practice is air zilling, to anything and anywhere. Car trips are great for that it also builds up muscle memory. Learning to listen to the music (any thing from pop to classical to ME) critically to hear the beat, then formulate the zill pattern. Another thing if you are left handed and the beat is counted out R.R,L your brain is doing a micro switch from your dominate hand to the R hand. One of my teachers and I had a discussion about this when she noticed that many of her left handed students had a slight delay. She changed the count to 1,1,2 or dominate hand , minor hand; and yes I zill L,L,R even if some one is counting it R.R.L. Hope that helps Creaks

 

[gypsy]

Gypsy, you are at a really cool place in your education, actually.

This is where you are going to start seeing improvement in leaps and bounds, if you keep at it.

It's very challenging to actually DANCE with cymbals, yes. And EVERYBODY starts off feeling very uncomfortable and uncoordinated with them. BUT, in just a few short months of practice you will be AMAZED at your progress.

Try it 2 ways -- learn the patterns by just walking around and playing them. Once you are comfortable with a few of the patterns, then try doing simple combinations while playing those patterns. Or play over one of your beginner practice dvds. Playing while practicing with a beginner dvd you are familiar with will really improve your coordination and your confidence.

Give it 6 months and report back I'll bet you'll look back on this thread and think "wow, I'm awesome now!"

Your teacher is issuing a challenge to you. Are you up for it? I think so

Been 6 months, so I thought I'd say, Yes it's going much better now!
I practice at home a couple times a week and have not found class cymbal playing to be a challenge anymore.
Cheers all!

 

[Amulya]

I have never liked zills and have rarely had a teacher who taught them in class. If you don't like it, maybe move to another teacher.

 

[gisela]

Gypsy, thank you so much for the update! It is very inspirational to read that you are getting better and seeing results Good job!

 

[farasharaks]

Although I think it's an important aspect of learning bellydance to learn zills, I don't think it's absolutely mandatory in order to move forward. There are beautiful dancers out there who don't really use zills every single time. It's really a nice prop to add to a performance or show, but there are also so many other props that you can learn and master, maybe zills isn't what you will master, maybe it's the veil, or the Isis wings, or candelabra! Or maybe you will enjoy learning the cane dance and master more earthy or folkloric dances! The possiblities are endless as to where you can go in your dance. But I think it's important you talk to your teacher and tell her how you feel, and maybe she can help you get better at them. Maybe she can offer a private class or two in order to help you get the zills and patterns right. I don't think you should be penalized for not completely mastering them. Talk to your teacher and good luck! If it doesn't get better for you, and your teacher does not want to cooperate with you, then find someone else! The teacher is there to teach you, not to discourage you! Best of luck!