Too skinny for proper belly rolls?

[MALEX]

Help! I'm a beginner to belly dance (approx. 4 months in) and I've been working on my belly rolls but I'm curious if perhaps I'm too thin to excute them well? I realize that you have to isolate your muscles, top, middle, bottom and vice versa, but I actually have very toned abs. They're so toned that when I flex the top, you can't help but see the bottom tense and there is really little movement.

In anyone's expert opinion, is it possible to be too toned to make these look good? I look ridiculous! Any feedback would be appreciated

Thanks!

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Nah -- don't worry about your weight

The problem most people have is being able to separate the upper abs from the lower abs. Most people want to think of the abs as one big thing (which they ARE one big group of muscles, but you can focus on one half or the other.)

Instead of focusing on pulling in with the muscles, think of pushing OUT. That's a different exercise and you need to have the control to do both. Think push the top half OUT and then push the bottom half OUT. (Don't worry about looking pot-bellied -- you're only going to stay there for a second.) Then think pull top half IN and pull bottom half IN. And repeat.

A lot of athletes are so used to pulling the abs IN that they forget they can also be pushed OUT.

Try that and see how it goes

 

[MALEX]

Whew - thank you Aziyade! I know I'm newer to this and everything takes time, but I wasn't sure if it would ever come around for me. I'm not particulary fond of seeing my muscles flex when I do it - I'd rather see a nice slow roll, but I'll keeping working with what I have. Sounds like I just need to keep practicing!

 

[shiradotnet]

Help! I'm a beginner to belly dance (approx. 4 months in) and I've been working on my belly rolls but I'm curious if perhaps I'm too thin to execute them well? I realize that you have to isolate your muscles, top, middle, bottom and vice versa, but I actually have very toned abs. They're so toned that when I flex the top, you can't help but see the bottom tense and there is really little movement.

In anyone's expert opinion, is it possible to be too toned to make these look good? I look ridiculous! Any feedback would be appreciated

Thanks!

Hi Malex! There's no such thing as being "too thin" for rolls. Thinness/fatness is a function of body fat, and doesn't have anything to do with muscle behavior. Muscles behave the same in everybody regardless of how much body fat you have.

There's also no such thing as being "too toned" to make rolls look good. Belly rolls can be done regardless of whether the abs are strong or weak, though they look better if the abs are strong.

You just need to teach your brain how to communicate with your abs. See this article on my web site: Dear Shira: How Can I Get My Belly to Roll?

 

[Kashmir]

I realize that you have to isolate your muscles, top, middle, bottom and vice versa, but I actually have very toned abs. They're so toned that when I flex the top, you can't help but see the bottom tense and there is really little movement.

In anyone's expert opinion, is it possible to be too toned to make these look good? I look ridiculous! Any feedback would be appreciated

Only if by "toned" you mean unable to control them with finesse. And it is important in dance to be able to relax as to contract. One without the other is useless - you can't shimmy, you can't undulate and you can't do belly rolls.

But the big part is finesse - "delicate manipulation, subtle discrimination". You have to learn to just engage the top - if you see the bottom tense - then you are not just engaging the top. Practice with awareness. Go for three perfect isolations rather than 100 sloppy ones. Your skill will grow.

 

[MALEX]

Only if by "toned" you mean unable to control them with finesse. And it is important in dance to be able to relax as to contract. One without the other is useless - you can't shimmy, you can't undulate and you can't do belly rolls.

But the big part is finesse - "delicate manipulation, subtle discrimination". You have to learn to just engage the top - if you see the bottom tense - then you are not just engaging the top. Practice with awareness. Go for three perfect isolations rather than 100 sloppy ones. Your skill will grow.

Aha, so I'm NOT isolating the different parts! And the best way to learn to isolate is just to flex and release repeatedly, repitition?

 

[MALEX]

Hi Malex! There's no such thing as being "too thin" for rolls. Thinness/fatness is a function of body fat, and doesn't have anything to do with muscle behavior. Muscles behave the same in everybody regardless of how much body fat you have.

There's also no such thing as being "too toned" to make rolls look good. Belly rolls can be done regardless of whether the abs are strong or weak, though they look better if the abs are strong.

You just need to teach your brain how to communicate with your abs. See this article on my web site: Dear Shira: How Can I Get My Belly to Roll?

Shira, I LOVE your site, I've visited it numerous times already and find it to be a great resource. I'll definitely take your advice and work at it. Thank you!

 

[Kashmir]

Aha, so I'm NOT isolating the different parts! And the best way to learn to isolate is just to flex and release repeatedly, repitition?

You need more than repetition - you need awareness. Try - see if it works. If not, try something slightly different - and watch the result. When you get the right result see if you can repeat it.

How that works varies between people. I start with my students, lying on the floor, pushing in with one hand then pushing against it - while the other hand is above/below. You get a feel for what the other muscles are doing. For some people visualization works.

 

[Ariadne]

There is a trick I was taught by a vocal teacher that I have used when concentrating on isolating my abs. Take a reeeeeally heavy book. Put it on your stomach. When you suck in the muscle you will be able to see and feel the book drop. When you push the muscle out it will rise. By using a heavy book you not only get instant feedback you are creating muscle memory. Also you don't have to tense your hand and arm muscles to create resistance and can completely isolate the stomach muscles. If you need to separate the two sections even more use two stacks of books, one on the upper and one on the lower abs. I like to place my hands behind my head where I know they won't be used at all and just watch.

(Man I have got to get back to practicing that. I'm becoming nostalgic.)
<- sick again...

 

[Yame]

You can also use your hands (put one on upper abs, the other on lower abs) to feel if you are isolating properly. When you get to the point where you can isolate your abs into 2 parts (upper and lower), your belly rolls will start looking like belly rolls. Eventually you can start separating your abs into more than just 2 sections, too, for more defined rolls.

Some people can belly roll naturally, for others it takes weeks, for others it takes months to learn. Months of DAILY practice. Awareness helps, natural ability helps, and practice is a must. How much you weigh shouldn't matter... look at Rachel Brice, a dancer known for her belly rolls. Very thin, very toned and athletic, but with some of the biggest and most defined belly rolls out there. There are tons of other thin dancers who can belly roll beautifully.

 

[MALEX]

Wow, thank you everyone for all of the advice! I appreciate it I will definitely get to practicing and I'll try all of your methods. Wish me luck, I might need it LOL

 

[Yame]

Wow, thank you everyone for all of the advice! I appreciate it I will definitely get to practicing and I'll try all of your methods. Wish me luck, I might need it LOL

You don't need any luck, dear, all you need is patience, perseverance, and discipline. Get in front of the mirror everyday and practice. Practicing while seated helps, especially in the beginning, because it allows you to relax a lot of those muscles that have to be working when you are standing in order to keep you upright.

Anyway, here is a video for inspiration:

 

[Reen.Blom]

Here's a bit of Rachel Brice doing a bellyroll, I know prolly you mean the one with isolated hip and torso but she shows here more of a 'preparation' exercises.. She definitly has no fat on her tummy and you can see her abs move.

 

[Yame]

Here's a bit of Rachel Brice doing a bellyroll, I know prolly you mean the one with isolated hip and torso but she shows here more of a 'preparation' exercises.. She definitly has no fat on her tummy and you can see her abs move.

This is an undulation... Rachel Brice herself doesn't call that a belly roll. When she does belly rolls, she doesn't use the torso and hips as you said above, and she REALLY pushes out the belly.

Here is a Rachel Brice belly roll:


(starts at 0:27)

 

[Reen.Blom]

I didnt say she calls it a belly roll or that it IS a belly roll in the meaning of the OP. Just in this vid you can REALLY see how her stomach goes in and out - lower and upper region independently.

It is this very undulation which is often taught to help to get awereness of the lower and upper abs. Engaging the torso and pelvis at first and learning to isolate at a later stage.

So chest lift and drop and pelvis tuck were the two moves that helped me feel the difference in contraction of lower and upper abs.

As you lift and DROP the chest you contract the upper abs, and can do this with other tummy muscules relaxed. I often do this while sitting. As I drop my chest and contract upper abs I push the rest of the stomach out and feel that the top part is contracted as the rest is not, then i gradually contract the rest while releasing the top and lifting the chest slightly. At a later stage you will not need to lift or drop the chest. Same goes for pelvis.

Hope this helps the OP.

 

[Shara]

this is what your abs look like Abdominal Muscle Anatomy
As you see, your abs have sections. You are striving to control these sections. Your best friends in doing so are your mirror and your dedication. Spend time each day trying to contact your sections that you can see in this illustration. Some people naturally are more aware and have more control over their body. For example, my grandfather could wiggle his ears. I cannot. Also, expect that you will find it easier to roll in one direction as opposed to the other. Few people roll both directions easily at first.
There is a difference in various belly movements. For example, a flutter is not the same as a roll, and is actually a diaphragm movement. A belly pop is different than a roll. Know the differences, but practicing one usually helps with the other! You are learning control!

 

[Belly Love]

I just got this down. It took me about 4 different times of trying at 10min each time. I put my finger tips on my belly while practicing in the mirror- this helped me focus on each section. I did it in 4 sections- upper, middle upper, middle lower, lower.

I watched Rachel Brice while trying to learn... I actually think it looks best on someone who is leaner like her... it just seems more defined and dramatic.

I'm now practicing on smoothing it out better. I find that I unintentionally practice it while sitting... maybe that will help you too.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

I don't have the link but if you ever want to see the ultimate example of a belly roll, go to YouTube and look for Helen Vlahos, then look for the video where she rolls eight quarters back and forth on her abdomen. It's priceless!

 

[Piocca]

I don't have the link but if you ever want to see the ultimate example of a belly roll, go to YouTube and look for Helen Vlahos, then look for the video where she rolls eight quarters back and forth on her abdomen. It's priceless!

Do you mean this one? It's really stunning (and fun )!




I'm working on my belly roll too. When I'm standig stoop-shouldered it looks quite good, I think, but when I'm standing in very straight posture It seems that I cannot stick out my belly (especially the middle part) enough to make it even look like a proper roll. That's also the reason why I just don't like my undulations, it looks so awkward. Seems that I just have to work on it a lot (but at the moment I'm a little bit discouraged because I haven't seen any progress for several weeks now , but actually I haven't concentrated on it much, so not THAT bad ).

 

[Shanazel]

Sushiela who danced in Ft. Collins, CO back in the eighties had a routine where she flipped quarters and folded a dollar bill with her stomach muscles. Any of you Colorado dancers know if she is still around? I beleive her real name was Susan Campbell, but I'm not sure.