Thanks, that's what I figured.....Some of the other dances in the class have had more experience, and they stick to what she's said. It's a level 1/level 2 mixed class.
What defines beginner and intermediate?
- Thread starter Rp1983
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Thanks, that's what I figured.....Some of the other dances in the class have had more experience, and they stick to what she's said. It's a level 1/level 2 mixed class.
Kashmir
New member
Providing they are belly dance, and assuming she hasn't restricted the exercise (I often limit improv to a couple of moves) - then I'd say use them. However, if she says they are not suitable (for instance I have tribal students who sometimes slip tribal non-belly dance moves in) then drop those ones.
I did my first drum solo to the mogador band the other night, and the people in the audience found it hard to believe that I was a beginner. Is it possible for your teacher to think you're still a beginner, but your friends are guessing that you're intermediate?
I know the average person isn't trained to spot all of the little tidbits that professionals can spot. Ever since I made this topic, I've been dancing for roughly about a year (I had some breaks in between classes). I've switched teachers recently, so my new teacher said to start her beginner class. She wants me to take 2 more months of polishing the basics' classes, and then I can move on to the "Beyond beginner" series.
As a student, I have to learn that this dance takes much time and dedication. It's nice to reach the intermediate level, but I need more practice to get there.
Overall, the audience at the cafe I danced at enjoyed my performance! There's a cute cafe that does open mic for ALL levels. Great experience.
I know the average person isn't trained to spot all of the little tidbits that professionals can spot. Ever since I made this topic, I've been dancing for roughly about a year (I had some breaks in between classes). I've switched teachers recently, so my new teacher said to start her beginner class. She wants me to take 2 more months of polishing the basics' classes, and then I can move on to the "Beyond beginner" series.
As a student, I have to learn that this dance takes much time and dedication. It's nice to reach the intermediate level, but I need more practice to get there.
Overall, the audience at the cafe I danced at enjoyed my performance! There's a cute cafe that does open mic for ALL levels. Great experience.
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Yame
New member
I did my first drum solo to the mogador band the other night, and the people in the audience found it hard to believe that I was a beginner. Is it possible for your teacher to think you're still a beginner, but your friends are guessing that you're intermediate?
I know the average person isn't trained to spot all of the little tidbits that professionals can spot. Ever since I made this topic, I've been dancing for roughly about a year (I had some breaks in between classes). I've switched teachers recently, so my new teacher said to start her beginner class.
As a student, I have to learn that this dance takes much time and dedication. It's nice to reach the intermediate level, but I need more practice to get there.
Overall, the audience at the cafe I danced at enjoyed my performance!
When I first started, my family said I danced like a professional. I definitely didn't. A lot of people don't know any better. You need to have your own standards and make your own judgement. Levels will be defined differently in different classes. Even within one specific class, although some teachers might have cut-off points between "beginner," "intermediate," and "advanced" I think that's a ridiculous over-simplification, but it's hard to divide classes up any more than that due to lack of demand.
Yame-I think I need some growth and refinement. When I looked at my own drum solo, I saw mistakes and felt that I needed more control over my movements. I was a bit too "bouncy" and exaggerated, but the average joe didn't see that.:lol:
Thanks for your reply. It makes sense.
Thanks for your reply. It makes sense.
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Yame
New member
Just remember, everyone needs more growth and refinement. Even the best dancers have things they want to/need to improve.
Kashmir
New member
Glad you are progressing. But, unless your friends are belly dancers - that is they know what belly dance is - then, sorry, I'd go with your teacher's assessment.
We have had lots of threads on what it takes to be a beginner and being able to dance in a way to engage a crowd is just the beginning. For instance, you may be dancing well - but not belly dancing. (Not all dance to belly dance music wearing a bra & belt and doing hip drops is belly dance). Can you tick the last three points I listed last year ie
- Have some feel for Middle Eastern music
- Be able to do a short improvisation
- Be aware of historical and cultural context of their current style
Realistically it takes a few years to get to intermediate - and many people will never make it despite being nice dancers because they just can't understand how to interpret the music as belly dance.
khanjar
New member
For sure what defines a beginner from an intermediate is where the student believes them self to be. Of course the confident may think themselves superb and the not so still stuck as a beginner, but one has to ask themselves why is it they dance or indeed learn this dance, is it to become a master at it knowing everything, or is it to journey learning all the time and perhaps end with regretting what more there is to learn ?
I wonder how many proficiency collectors there are in the dance world?
Myself, some describe me not as a beginner, perhaps intermediate, I don't know, but I describe myself as a beginner and I will always be that whether my level now, more advanced or again so, as I prefer to be learning, not stagnant, know it all and bored
I wonder how many proficiency collectors there are in the dance world?
Myself, some describe me not as a beginner, perhaps intermediate, I don't know, but I describe myself as a beginner and I will always be that whether my level now, more advanced or again so, as I prefer to be learning, not stagnant, know it all and bored
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Darshiva
Moderator
A beginner is someone who needs to work on their moves & knows it. An intermediate is someone who needs to work on their moves and doesn't know it. An advanced is someone who needs to refine their moves and goes back to basics to do that.
Actually, as everyone said, there are different rules for different levels in every classroom. However, a beginner will look really nervous & enthusiastic at the same time, kind of hesitant in their motion. An intermediate will show greater musicality & confidence in moves - probably with more complexity than necessary. An advanced will make everything look effortless. Aside from that, it really does depend on the classroom and the teacher. Everyone has different requisites for level advancement, so you can't judge a level by the moves, but more by the attitude on stage or in the classroom.
Actually, as everyone said, there are different rules for different levels in every classroom. However, a beginner will look really nervous & enthusiastic at the same time, kind of hesitant in their motion. An intermediate will show greater musicality & confidence in moves - probably with more complexity than necessary. An advanced will make everything look effortless. Aside from that, it really does depend on the classroom and the teacher. Everyone has different requisites for level advancement, so you can't judge a level by the moves, but more by the attitude on stage or in the classroom.
khanjar
New member
I suppose to understand what level one is at, one needs to know for what purpose they do what they do, is it fun, socialising or to earn a living and again as I have mentioned this before, what is the purpose of the different levels in a class other than to let prospective students know there will be difficulty, but one thing I have observed is becoming a particular fascination in our society, and that is the concept of certification, as if a piece of paper is all that one is, where what they can actually do is ignored unless the certificate proves.
For example, in one of my crafts, I get asked what qualifications I have got to be able to work at such a level, when I rely none, I am self taught, people lose interest as though it just doesn't compute, similarly for all the things I can do, I cannot find employment because I do not have the certification for being naturally able to do or self taught. In other situations where I do have certification, it has expired so monies are needed in the hundreds and in one case near a thousand to re certify for what I can do without certification. Does anyone see what I am getting at here, certification is a business in itself and only suggests someone has attended something and perhaps passed a related test, not that they are proficient at what they do, and our reliance on levels and certificates could very well be our undoing as I am finding in terms of employment.
But in western societies we are known for our collections, be that philately, butterflies, whatever, so isn't qualification and level hunting just another form of collecting ?
Dance classes I have attended, are mixed abilities and with that, I see the point as quite often everyone follows who is in front and with that, we have beginners learning some advanced movement, but wasn't that always the way before some decided to break it all up into levels and teach it as if it were a course of instruction and not teaching us how we can use natural movement and some we didn't know we had to enjoy ourselves with dance, or dance for others.
For example, in one of my crafts, I get asked what qualifications I have got to be able to work at such a level, when I rely none, I am self taught, people lose interest as though it just doesn't compute, similarly for all the things I can do, I cannot find employment because I do not have the certification for being naturally able to do or self taught. In other situations where I do have certification, it has expired so monies are needed in the hundreds and in one case near a thousand to re certify for what I can do without certification. Does anyone see what I am getting at here, certification is a business in itself and only suggests someone has attended something and perhaps passed a related test, not that they are proficient at what they do, and our reliance on levels and certificates could very well be our undoing as I am finding in terms of employment.
But in western societies we are known for our collections, be that philately, butterflies, whatever, so isn't qualification and level hunting just another form of collecting ?
Dance classes I have attended, are mixed abilities and with that, I see the point as quite often everyone follows who is in front and with that, we have beginners learning some advanced movement, but wasn't that always the way before some decided to break it all up into levels and teach it as if it were a course of instruction and not teaching us how we can use natural movement and some we didn't know we had to enjoy ourselves with dance, or dance for others.
Kashmir
New member
Not so. A beginner often has no idea what they need to learn. The don't know what they don't know. Sure, something as obvious as movement that doesn't flow can be spotted - and most smart beginners can tell if they need to improve their physical skills. But a beginner often cannot tell that they have missed the music - that is they hear it wrong - and often do not know what belly dance is. Learning how to belly dance as opposed to learning how to move your body is a big part of passing out from beginner level.
Great answers here. I was about to ask how long it takes most people to reach intermediate until I saw how kashmir said a couple of years.
I would still classify myself as a beginner....perhaps a high beginner, but not quite intermediate.
I'm excited to be perform at a belly dance workshop in 2 weeks that encourages all levels.
I would still classify myself as a beginner....perhaps a high beginner, but not quite intermediate.
I'm excited to be perform at a belly dance workshop in 2 weeks that encourages all levels.
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Throwing my 2 cents' worth (while avoiding some of my serious workload
Interesting discussion!
I think in terms of the gap between my level and that of any of the favourite, famous professionals (or less famous but fabulous regional stars).
A bit of polish and I could be their equal? Advanced. Bridge the distance in less than a hundred years? Intermediate. Never bridge the distance? Beginner. I'll be a beginner to the end :lol:
I've been in classes labelled "advanced" for a few years but I know enough about dance to know that is just the teacher's labels. It just means "been doing it for more than a few terms." I am "advanced" in no way except perhaps a few small steps along the continuum of dance expertise compared to when I started.
I agree with statements such as Kashmir's that it would take at least 10 good years to be advanced, and with those who know that there is always more to learn. Dancing is wonderful and I recommend it for everyone But if comparative terms are used, I feel they should refer to the whole range of possibilities and be used realistically (i.e. truthfully).
Interesting discussion!
I think in terms of the gap between my level and that of any of the favourite, famous professionals (or less famous but fabulous regional stars).
A bit of polish and I could be their equal? Advanced. Bridge the distance in less than a hundred years? Intermediate. Never bridge the distance? Beginner. I'll be a beginner to the end :lol:
I've been in classes labelled "advanced" for a few years but I know enough about dance to know that is just the teacher's labels. It just means "been doing it for more than a few terms." I am "advanced" in no way except perhaps a few small steps along the continuum of dance expertise compared to when I started.
I agree with statements such as Kashmir's that it would take at least 10 good years to be advanced, and with those who know that there is always more to learn. Dancing is wonderful and I recommend it for everyone
But if comparative terms are used, I feel they should refer to the whole range of possibilities and be used realistically (i.e. truthfully).
Shanazel
Moderator
What no one ever seems to mention is that one's relative level of expertise can go up or down. My level is nowhere near what it was in the 1980s because I don't train at the same intensity or have the same physical capacity that I enjoyed back then.
Advancing in dance is a lot like the scene in Alice in Wonderland where she and the Red Queen run very hard yet get nowhere:
"Well, in our country," said Alice, still panting a little, "you'd generally get to somewhere else — if you run very fast for a long time, as we've been doing."
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Advancing in dance is a lot like the scene in Alice in Wonderland where she and the Red Queen run very hard yet get nowhere:
"Well, in our country," said Alice, still panting a little, "you'd generally get to somewhere else — if you run very fast for a long time, as we've been doing."
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"