Exotic Fusion(stripping and belly dance)

BellaBohemian

New member
I was curious about this because I've seen several burlesque fusion dancers defend it on the grounds that "it's not stripping". But when I look into it, I've yet to find any evidence that burlesque was that different in the olden days.

Burlesque may not be about stripping right down to the buff, but hasn't it always been about taking your clothes off?

"Burlesque is a literary, dramatic or musical work intended to cause laughter by caricaturing the manner or spirit of serious works, or by ludicrous treatment of their subjects. The word derives from the Italian burlesco, which itself derives from the Italian burla – a joke, ridicule or mockery"
~Wiki

Burlesque started off more wholesome then it is today. It made a slow and gradual change for some acts to include a striptease towards the 1930's-40's in America. Since that version of Burlesque is all we really see now, most people hear Burlesque and think it's a fancy name for a stripper. Or a stripper who gets paid more.

A lot (if not all) the Burlesque night clubs in Los Vegas are done with stripping. But they include a more "showy" performance. Rather then one girl going on stage to one song of her choice and doing a sexy dance whilst removing clothes; a Burlesque show will often include more then one girl on stage (or even use several small stages in sync) and the act contains song and dance or some form of a comedy act.
Some of those acts do not let the performer be completely nude, they will wear large nipple coverings and stockings with garter belts and fancy underwear, no less.

Honestly when I think of the original form of Burlesque in a more modern setting I think of the last dance they do in the movie Chicago. It's showy, flashy and they even mock themselves with the Tommy guns. Makes the audience laugh a little, but you still get your song, dance and pretty ladies. :dance:
 

LilithNoor

New member
Burlesque may not be about stripping right down to the buff, but hasn't it always been about taking your clothes off?

AFAIK, burlesque originally meant satirising something, subverting societal norms and basically taking the p1ss. Rude songs, or popular songs sung in a way that made them rude, drag acts, comedy, all can come under the banner of burlesque. The strip-tease side of burlesque seems to have sneaked in during the 20th century, and it's pretty much impossible to seperate it out now.

A lot of modern burlesque is about taking your clothes off, but often the strip itself is very traditionally burlesque- one of the funniest acts i've seen involved an elderly cleaner from a well loved TV show who gets carried away listening to the radio while dusting, and ends up starkers. Totally all about the setting, not the stripping. And of course, the reverse strip is about as burlesque as you can get!
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
Burlesque may not be about stripping right down to the buff, but hasn't it always been about taking your clothes off?

My point exactly - never mind good dancing, be it burlesque or bellydancing. Many times we get the bottom line "when do you start taking it off?"

One time when I was at an airport some woman asked me if it bothered me to dance wearing so little. I then explained to her that most of us dance in more costuming than the women on Dancing With The Stars wear!
 
AFAIK, burlesque originally meant satirising something....The strip-tease side of burlesque seems to have sneaked in during the 20th century, and it's pretty much impossible to seperate it out now.

A lot of modern burlesque is about taking your clothes off, but often the strip itself is very traditionally burlesque...

Sadly, I think this is the point. If burlesque has included stripping since the 30's, then that's what it means to anyone under the age of about 90 - which is the vast majority of the population.

I know burlesque performers try to change the perception by reminding us of the art's origin, but to my mind, they send mixed messages when they say it's not sexual on the one hand, then strip down to pasties (no matter how large) and a G-string or a tiny scrap of material.
 

LilithNoor

New member
I know burlesque performers try to change the perception by reminding us of the art's origin, but to my mind, they send mixed messages when they say it's not sexual on the one hand, then strip down to pasties (no matter how large) and a G-string or a tiny scrap of material.

I'd argue the difference between sexual and sexy, myself. We're not performing a sex act up there- our acts may be risqué and titillating, but the intent is not to send our audience home with damp crotches!

Hmm, this talk of pasties has me thinking about the Ouled Nail! time for a spin off thread, methinks!
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
It's about what we are doing today, not what happened ages and ages ago. We spend humongous amounts of time on many fora to get away from this image. I don't see how fusing this together will ever be something the majority of us will agree on, no matter what ancient origins were. It may have had some beginnings in ancient times but that doesn't mean we have to revive them to be authentic.
 

LilithNoor

New member
It's about what we are doing today, not what happened ages and ages ago. We spend humongous amounts of time on many fora to get away from this image. I don't see how fusing this together will ever be something the majority of us will agree on, no matter what ancient origins were. It may have had some beginnings in ancient times but that doesn't mean we have to revive them to be authentic.

I really hope you weren't interpreting my post as 'let's all get our tits out because that's what our dance ancestors did!' because that's totally not where I was heading :redface:

For the record, while I am very invested in fusing burlesque attitudes and the less traditional forms of belly dance, I'm firmly convinced that the only item of clothing coming off during a dance should be your veil or your zills, unless you have a genuine costume malfunction.
 

LilithNoor

New member
Phew! Although, having been the instigator of much arranging of chicken fillets and' fluffing' of cleavage at our performance tonight, I can can quite see how i could earn myself that sort of reputation!
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Umm, okay, Nick. A tad off topic, don't you think? Shakira discussions have their own thread and won't be taking place here. ;)
 

Apphia

New member
My point exactly - never mind good dancing, be it burlesque or bellydancing. Many times we get the bottom line "when do you start taking it off?"

One time when I was at an airport some woman asked me if it bothered me to dance wearing so little. I then explained to her that most of us dance in more costuming than the women on Dancing With The Stars wear!

Isn't it unusual that people can watch ballroom dancing, and have become in love with it (dancing with the stars has brought that to people's understanding) and don't have a problem with THEIR costumes, but bellydancers are strippers? I don't get it.. *sigh* the public is just an iffy mob..

As to the exotic dance/bellydancer issue, if you've seen all my "likes" I basically agree with the pretty unanimous thought that they should be kept separate.. I think more bellydancers, no matter WHAT form they use need to become more educated with the history and become aware of the overall community of the art form.. My personal opinion is very low of stripping, and I get pretty miffed when the conversation goes from bellydance classes to pole dancing and/or burlesque.. *sigh*

Coincidentally I am a Massage Therapist by trade... so I also have to fight down the problem with the whole prostitute stereotype.. 'masseuse' didn't use to mean 'woman who gives happy ending' .. Why do I choose controversial roles to play? *shakes head* dunno, but something about it has drawn both art forms (bellydancing and massage) into my life.. Anyways.. that's my two cents...
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
As to the exotic dance/bellydancer issue, if you've seen all my "likes" I basically agree with the pretty unanimous thought that they should be kept separate.. I think more bellydancers, no matter WHAT form they use need to become more educated with the history and become aware of the overall community of the art form..

PREACH IT!!

Coincidentally I am a Massage Therapist by trade... so I also have to fight down the problem with the whole prostitute stereotype.. 'masseuse' didn't use to mean 'woman who gives happy ending' .. Why do I choose controversial roles to play? *shakes head* dunno, but something about it has drawn both art forms (bellydancing and massage) into my life.. Anyways.. that's my two cents...

lol -- I actually know quite a few dancers who are also body-workers or PTs or massage therapists, so you're not alone there. :)
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
How come we don't have ballroom-stripping fushion? How come it's always with bellydance?

In fact, I was watching Dancing With The Stars (which I usually don't watch), and some of those dances were so hot and suggestive, yet they all get praised for being top notch. Yet if you mention bellydance, there is a collective gasp like it's not okay to do even a fraction of the moves they do on that show and yet we are considered less respectable.
 

Tawny Lonsdale

New member
Re

No problem with the stripping. No problem with the belly dancing. As a fusion? Don´t go there. However, I admire that you take both arts seriously.
 

Apphia

New member
"Belly dance was originally created by women for women......"

AMEN!!

I've never been comfortable dancing in front of men.. coming from a conservative town and a conservative christian religion.. It's very uneasy for me.. in fact, I've never performed in front of anyone.. yet. In the past, it's always been in a 'ladies night' hafla scenario in a troupe... SO, I do have work to do.. But I do enjoy the history of bellydance being in the setting of a home with a group of women family members.. just saying I agree.. :)
 

Erik

New member
I really want to combine belly dance with exotic dance for my job.

Please don't. I beg you. Noticed this thread when you first started it but stood down as long as I could. An A & E documentary I watched several years ago claimed that stripping was a Western offshoot of belly dancing, which was inspired by Arabic dances brought to France and the USA in the 1890's, so perhaps there is a relationship.

My reasoning is that there have been too many misconceptions over the years. In the heyday of stripping there were some strippers who wore costumes similar to those worn by belly dancers. And some belly dancers also wore pasties on their breasts like strippers. I hope the latter was an experiment which will be learned from and never repeated.

It is hard to make this appeal without appearing to bash stripping as a legitimate artistic dance form. I would not object in the least if you practiced both (as some dancers have done in the past), but I would sincerely ask that you take a tip from The Offspring, and keep 'em seperated.
 

khanjar

New member
I think as ever this all comes down to respect doesn't it ?

I mean watching a recent video that was posted on these forums those of the originating cultures do not like the term 'belly dance', so as students of this art, perhaps we should respect the originating cultures wishes and move away from the term ''bellydance''. The same goes for those that perform this dance form in the west, not to equate it to stripping, out of respect for those that belly dance but do not remove their clothing as part of the dance.

Furthermore, would anyone think if stripping and belly dance were fused the originating countries would be best pleased, if anything, if such a fusion became common place, I can see cultural dance being driven away, not re-embraced in some originating cultures, as many of us are hoping in these new enlightened times.
 
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