Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47
  1. #11
    Moderator Darshiva's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kyabram, Vic
    Posts
    4,471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I like to make sure they have the base move down & know that they aren't obliged to pick up the speed if they can't handle it just yet, and to drop back the pace to something they can handle if they start to lose it.

    I never got the idea of a shimmy from the knee bending thing, it always threw me off when we picked up the pace. I'm having more success with the teaching from muscle groups, possibly because the way that I teach shimmies is as a variant of a lift/drop so students who don't have the control to pick up the pace know that they know how to do the move, they just need to practice more to get it up to the speed they want. More complex shimmy variants come later.
    Bellydance in Kyabram!
    Skype classes a specialty.
    Email kyabrambellydance@gmail.com for more information.

  2. #12
    Moderator Daimona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,681
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Take a look at various shimmies and tip for doing them in this previous thread:
    http://www.bellydanceforums.net/inst...ies-there.html
    --
    Daim.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sirène's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    507
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I am most emphatically NOT an instructor and I bow to their greater knowledge, but I do think this might be somewhat helpful for you:


  4. #14
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,952
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirène View Post
    I am most emphatically NOT an instructor and I bow to their greater knowledge, but I do think this might be somewhat helpful for you:
    Nicely filmed and you can see what she is doing. I’d call this a hip rock though rather than a hip lift (around here that has a accent up and one foot on demi). For a shimmy I’d usually want it softer. Partially because she’s using her legs. Lifting the hip by straightening your leg is a start – but as Darshiva says – best lose it in the long term

    Feet better facing forward ie in parallel and I usually start people off with the feet and knees under the hip (not the outside of the pelvic girdle but the hip joint itself) – she says it but doesn’t do it.

  5. #15
    Moderator Darshiva's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kyabram, Vic
    Posts
    4,471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The very important thing to do here is to not equate knee movement with shimmies because that can lead to trouble in the knee joints. Yes, there is a straightening & bending of the leg, but this is because that's what happens when you contract & relax the muscles in the legs, and it is extremely important to note that when doing this series of moves.

    I agree with Kashmir that this is very well filmed and I like the music she drills with, but I do very strongly discourage the use of knees in shimmies because of the injuries that can result from it and the feelings of exclusion from older dancers or those who have been told to not do anything that aggrivates an existing knee condition. Just remember that the knees come along for the ride on this one, that they aren't motivating the move, and you'll be fine.
    Bellydance in Kyabram!
    Skype classes a specialty.
    Email kyabrambellydance@gmail.com for more information.

  6. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    thanks so much for all the replies... it really helps!! ^_^

    i've checked with my instructor yesterday, and yes, i'm doing it wrong *heheh*... she corrected my standing position & stuff... well, at least i dont feel so retard when doing shimmy now... ^_^

    we learnt chest rotation yesterday... another retarded move i'm facing... *grrr*

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Yame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,285
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    /sigh
    Here we go again...

    1. There is no such thing as knee-driven movement. The knees do not "motivate" ANY movement. Knees are not muscles. Only muscles can drive movement. To say that the legs only bend and straighten because the muscles are contracting and releasing is redundant... that is the only way the legs could possibly bend and straighten, that is the only way we could possibly move our bodies at all.

    2. It doesn't look to me like Irina is driving the movement from the bending and straightening of the legs. It looks to me as if she is driving it from her various core muscles and the legs are "going along for the ride."

    3. There is nothing harmful abound bending and straightening your legs, whether the hip movement is being driven by that motion OR whether the hip movement is being driven some other way and the legs are "going along for the ride." So long as you are not locking the knees back, bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is no more harmful than walking. The legs are MEANT to be bent and straightened.

    4. [Some] Belly dancers are the only people I've personally encountered that are so darn afraid of this perfectly normal motion. In ballet legs are completely straight unless in plié. Look at how straight ballroom dancers' legs are when they dance. But belly dancers... God forbid we ever straighten our legs! We think our knees are too fragile to do what they are meant to do!

  8. #18
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Cornfields of Evansville Indiana.
    Posts
    2,743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yame View Post
    So long as you are not locking the knees back, bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is no more harmful than walking.
    This.

    I have met very very very few people in my life who actually try to shimmy by locking the knees backward, or even attempting to hyper-extend the leg. While I agree that we need to warn students against doing so, I think it has become an urban legend of sorts -- like razor blades in the apples at Halloween. I don't think people are actually doing it -- certainly not in my classes or in classes I've been in!

    Also, I have found I can transfer the workload to various parts of my leg (the calf, the front of the thigh, the back of the thigh, etc.) by shifting my weight around my feet. Different shoes affect my shimmy as well. Where I FOCUS on the shimmy also affects this -- if I let it "hang low" in the body it generates fatigue in different muscles than when I try to pull it higher in the body. Adding or transferring the work from the bending/straightening knee to the obliques or the glutes changes the feel as well.

    There is no one-size-fits-all shimmy. A lot of how I shimmy depends upon my energy level, my current weight, my shoes and costuming, the type of stage, and what the music is telling me to do right then. Unless I'm deliberate trying to get across the feeling of tension and tightness, my only real rule to shimmy is that it's relaxed and makes you feel good watching it and doing it.

  9. #19
    Moderator Darshiva's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kyabram, Vic
    Posts
    4,471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yame View Post
    3. There is nothing harmful abound bending and straightening your legs, whether the hip movement is being driven by that motion OR whether the hip movement is being driven some other way and the legs are "going along for the ride." So long as you are not locking the knees back, bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is no more harmful than walking. The legs are MEANT to be bent and straightened.

    I believe what we are discussing is the difference between knowing how to control the motion & shaking ones knees to death. There is a big difference between the two and this is a major reason (I believe) why good teachers* try to leave off on teaching shimmies until later on. The shaking them around without thought can lead to injury because the lack of control can cause injury to ligaments.

    Also, regarding the preciousness of knees in bellydance over other dance styles - did you know that knee injury is the top reason why dancers in other styles quit dancing? We may be over-protective of our knees in bellydance, but at least we are the ones with active performers into their sixties & seventies. The attitude towards the knees seems to be a contributing factor. While I would never tell any student to ignore what they are told in another classroom, in mine they will always be expected to care for their body in the pursuit of bellydance.

    *Please note that I do not imply that teachers who do it early on are bad, as I am one to do that sort of thing, just that there is a reason behind why they do it this way.
    Last edited by Darshiva; 08-16-2011 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Needed to clarify.
    Bellydance in Kyabram!
    Skype classes a specialty.
    Email kyabrambellydance@gmail.com for more information.

  10. #20
    V.I.P. Yame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,285
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darshiva View Post
    I believe what we are discussing is the difference between knowing how to control the motion & shaking ones knees to death. There is a big difference between the two and this is a major reason (I believe) why good teachers* try to leave off on teaching shimmies until later on. The shaking them around without thought can lead to injury because the lack of control can cause injury to ligaments.
    If that's what you meant, I must have misunderstood. It sounded like the age-old " 'knee' shimmies are dangerous" debate.
    In any case, all movements we do must be controlled. Nothing should be just purposelessly moving around. I think this is true to anything we do and not just shimmies. So, no disagreement here.

    I also don't teach shimmies early on. They are the last thing I teach baby beginners, because they require the person to already have some isolation ability. If you can already isolate, then you just need to get used to building speed. So I let them practice basic isolations for weeks and once I feel like that's up to par, I tackle shimmies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darshiva View Post
    Also, regarding the preciousness of knees in bellydance over other dance styles - did you know that knee injury is the top reason why dancers in other styles quit dancing? We may be over-protective of our knees in bellydance, but at least we are the ones with active performers into their sixties & seventies. The attitude towards the knees seems to be a contributing factor.
    I do know that knee injury is the top reason why ballet dancers quit, I am not sure about other dance forms. I do believe there are a lot of ballet teachers out there who do not teach safe technique and/or favor certain aesthetics that aren't "good" for the dancer, for example hyperextension of the legs. Also, you have to remember these people dance for 8 hours a day almost daily, which is a lot more wear and tear on the body than most of us go through, and the stuff they do is much more physically demanding. There is also often a culture of dancing through pain and dancing on injuries. So, naturally, they do end their careers earlier and sometimes that does happen due to injuries.
    Still, there are many ballet dancers who simply retire because they are far beyond their prime, but live long, healthy lives far from the stage. My ballet teacher is about 60 and has no knee problems whatsoever.

    We get to perform into our sixties and seventies because we don't necessarily have to do anything that is super-athletic and/or risky, not because we make sure never to straighten our legs when we dance. Yes, part of it IS because we tend to cultivate a healthier culture, we don't advocate dancing on injuries, we listen to our bodies when they tell us to stop. I love this about belly dance. These are all good things! But there definitely is this myth floating around out there that bending and straightening the legs to drive a shimmy is somehow bad and must be avoided, and I've found that that is simply not true. There is no need to be THAT overprotective.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •