Everyone's least-favorite Colombian
- Thread starter Erik
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Sirène
New member
Proof that she can belly dance, when she wants to:
Shakira - Bellydance live in Morocco (Mawazine festival 2011) - YouTube
Erik
New member
Thanks, Sirene, and it looks for all the world like belly dance to me. If it is fused with other dances my eye isn't trained enough to recognize them.
A belly dancer with 30+ years of experience (compared to my none) told me that Shakira does fusion, and I couldn't tell her she was wrong. Then again, the clip you provided may not have existed yet when that conversation took place.
A belly dancer with 30+ years of experience (compared to my none) told me that Shakira does fusion, and I couldn't tell her she was wrong. Then again, the clip you provided may not have existed yet when that conversation took place.
gisela
Super Moderator
Here is the same dance as in Sirène's post.
Shakira Belly Dancing (las mejores caderas del mundo) - YouTube
Most of does look like bellydancing, except for the crazy part at 1:50.
To me she looks like an excited lower intermediate bellydancer. The fact that she is pretty rich and fit and has all the possibility of getting amazing teachers, makes me wonder why she isn't better.
Shakira Belly Dancing (las mejores caderas del mundo) - YouTube
Most of does look like bellydancing, except for the crazy part at 1:50.
To me she looks like an excited lower intermediate bellydancer. The fact that she is pretty rich and fit and has all the possibility of getting amazing teachers, makes me wonder why she isn't better.
Shadawing
New member
Oh look, a topic about Shakira 
(I am a huge fan of her)
When she released Whenever Wherever, they constantly asked her about bellydancing and she said that she is NOT a bellydancer, but that she chooses to add some of the elements into her dancing. She also stated that her dancing is a mixture of styles because she wants to interpret how she feels the music. :dance:
I think I'll post some video interviewes later to show.
Watch some of her other dancing in La Tortura, Why Wait, Gypsy. She Wolf, Rabiosa, Estoy Aqui etc. You can see that she is really just composing different moves and styles, nothing that can be called a really bellydance. I am only a beginner, but I think it's easy to see a difference.
And yes, she could do better, but she HAS to do something catchy and simple in order to get people like her dancing. Especially for that Ojos Asi you've mentioned before. That's how music industry works. But don't forget that she's also a producer, writer and a performer. That ain't easy. :lol: But if she had more freedom as a performer, I bet we would get a real bellydance show from her.
However, I LOVE her dance because of HOW she does it (or used to, now she has to do it more.. "sexual" because of the industry, but you get my point) :yay:
EDIT: she's on my avatar
(sry for my bad english)
(I am a huge fan of her)When she released Whenever Wherever, they constantly asked her about bellydancing and she said that she is NOT a bellydancer, but that she chooses to add some of the elements into her dancing. She also stated that her dancing is a mixture of styles because she wants to interpret how she feels the music. :dance:
I think I'll post some video interviewes later to show.
Watch some of her other dancing in La Tortura, Why Wait, Gypsy. She Wolf, Rabiosa, Estoy Aqui etc. You can see that she is really just composing different moves and styles, nothing that can be called a really bellydance. I am only a beginner, but I think it's easy to see a difference.
And yes, she could do better, but she HAS to do something catchy and simple in order to get people like her dancing. Especially for that Ojos Asi you've mentioned before. That's how music industry works. But don't forget that she's also a producer, writer and a performer. That ain't easy. :lol: But if she had more freedom as a performer, I bet we would get a real bellydance show from her.
However, I LOVE her dance because of HOW she does it (or used to, now she has to do it more.. "sexual" because of the industry, but you get my point) :yay:
EDIT: she's on my avatar
(sry for my bad english)
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Sirène
New member
@ Erik
I think fusion is probably the better word for her dancing. She picks elements from many different styles, and truthfully, I think she focuses more on singing anyway.
@ Gisela
I know, right? If I had her money I'd have privates everyday! (And if I had her body I'd have nothing but Bellas in my closet :lol
@ Gisela & Amulya
I suspect that the MED portions of the performance I linked were choreographed by a professional. Shakira can afford the best in the business, but whatever she was given had to be something she could execute, and take into account she was in Morocco. This was not a crowd of westerners who think belly dance is some sort of lounge or stripper act, this was a crowd that could claim the dance as part of their cultural heritage. Considering her past performances, I don't think she put that together heself. I think a choreographer was called in with the goal of giving her something safe and easy(er).
@ Shadawing
She is a lovely entertainer, I just think that the general public's perception of her as THE GREATEST BELLYDANCER EVER sometimes ruffles the feathers of those who invest more time and effort in middle eastern dance.
Btw, your english is fine.
I think fusion is probably the better word for her dancing. She picks elements from many different styles, and truthfully, I think she focuses more on singing anyway.
@ Gisela
I know, right? If I had her money I'd have privates everyday! (And if I had her body I'd have nothing but Bellas in my closet :lol
@ Gisela & Amulya
I suspect that the MED portions of the performance I linked were choreographed by a professional. Shakira can afford the best in the business, but whatever she was given had to be something she could execute, and take into account she was in Morocco. This was not a crowd of westerners who think belly dance is some sort of lounge or stripper act, this was a crowd that could claim the dance as part of their cultural heritage. Considering her past performances, I don't think she put that together heself. I think a choreographer was called in with the goal of giving her something safe and easy(er).
@ Shadawing
She is a lovely entertainer, I just think that the general public's perception of her as THE GREATEST BELLYDANCER EVER sometimes ruffles the feathers of those who invest more time and effort in middle eastern dance.
Btw, your english is fine.
Amulya
Moderator
If she hired belly dancers to choreograph for her and if she was dancing for Moroccan audience, why is the choreography so beginner-like? You'd think she had to get something much more professional out to convince that type of audience. A western audience couldn't care less.
I'm not putting her down! I think she is a great performer and got her own dancing style. It's just a bit mind boggling to me why the drum solo wasn't better.
Erik
New member
I can understand that much better now than I did a few years ago. When I was watching the video gisela posted I noticed a zealous clip in the related videos coulums. It is dedicated to THE THREE GREATEST BELLYDANCERS EVER; Shakira, Sadie, and Jennifer Lopez. Please remember that I'm only the messenger.
EDIT --- I know I am responding to the reply for Shadawing. Hope that's all right. When I have looked for ME dance clips I never used the words hot or sexy, and yet they come up anyway. It should be said that not all of these are junk. Many of them are clips of very well-known dancers from the ME, Europe, and America. Shakira comes up too. It all depends on how the video is tagged.
The public definition has become too vague. People don't know and they call it as they see it. On the other web site I did not call Shakira a belly dancer in so many words. I simply said that she incorporated belly dance moves into her singing act. The way I see it now, it isn't just the ingredients but the recipe that matters.
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Sirène
New member
I think it comes down to her abilities. For example, let's say I had the fame and fortune this day to commission a choreography by Suhaila Salimpour. I don't think anyone here would question Suhaila's ability to give me something awesome. The problem would be my ability to perform it.
Any choreographer worth their salt will scale back their artistic vision, because the job first and foremost is to make the client look good in the time constraints given. The disadvantage with Shakira is that she is perceived as a skilled belly dancer, when experience has proven she is a decent fusion dancer. This may have been the best she could do under the circumstances, and "simple and clean" was given more value than "wow the audience." That's my theory anyway...
Shadawing
New member
Well, there are many misconceptions about everything, and we can't do much about it but to explain and show it to those who are interested. People ask me, for example, why is Picasso a great artist and tell me that they don't consider it as art since his work doesn't look "like a real photo" (realism).
So yeah, I get the feeling, but that's just the way it is. I am grateful that I searched and searched Shakira's dance videos and all of sudden found real bellydance videos. Since I have already danced before (showdance, mtv dance, jazz dance) I was interested more and more. My point is, who wants to learn, will learn. We all dance and do other things for our pleasure in the first place (you all love to dance, don't you?
) so that matters the most, I think. Amulya - Well, many things about this tour was so WRONG. She/they didn't change many things (except for changing the leggings and removing songs) because of the Live Nation (who mostly decide where she will play and which songs). Sadly, she can't just say "I will change the dance routine for Ojos Asi for this and that audience". She performed Ojos Asi with the same routine in every show she has done. EVERY. Not a thing was changed (except for cutting the song in half). Music industry is just not the place where you can show the quality in it's highest level nowadays. I can only imagine what a freakin' show we would get if she could do what she wants to.
Amulya
Moderator
You'd think she's famous and rich enough to break free and do what she wants to, but maybe not? Maybe still dependent on producers
Sirène, that can be true. Although I think it is possible to find someone who can chorograph tailored to a dancer's abilities. However maybe that's hard to find. Like Suhaila probably only writes choreos in her style and maybe she doesn't adjust them, she wouldn't have to, her dancers are able to do them. But if someone else wants her to write something to their dance-style and abilities, maybe she can't.
Shadawing
New member
You'd think she's famous and rich enough to break free and do what she wants to, but maybe not? Maybe still dependent on producers
I think that there are people who are far richer and powerful than she is. She is rich, famous and all, but she doesn't dominate her career as they like to show us. It's all so packaged and sometimes fake (like Rihanna's voice, she can't sing live but in studio she's suddenly new Mariah Carey :lol
EDIT: Forgot to say, I like the name of the topic lol
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Sirène
New member
Remember that many a messenger was sent back minus a head and embedded with arrows. :lol:
I always get the impression that when a YT video is tagged "belly dance" and features Jennifer Lopez or Beyonce or someone else, it's from a non-native english speaker who means, "shows the belly while dancing," and not "middle eastern dancing." :think:
Erik
New member
Remember that many a messenger was sent back minus a head and embedded with arrows. :lol:
That appeals to my dark sense of humor. :lol:
I went back and added to my previous post, tried to make it a little more clear. I still remember the day when I started this thread. I was debating on not starting it at all, and then one of my cats jumped on the keyboard and launched it. Must have been fate.
Sirène
New member
You'd think she's famous and rich enough to break free and do what she wants to, but maybe not? Maybe still dependent on producers
Sirène, that can be true. Although I think it is possible to find someone who can chorograph tailored to a dancer's abilities. However maybe that's hard to find. Like Suhaila probably only writes choreos in her style and maybe she doesn't adjust them, she wouldn't have to, her dancers are able to do them. But if someone else wants her to write something to their dance-style and abilities, maybe she can't.
My understanding is that Live shows are where the artist has the greatest amount of creative freedom, however they are still subject to budget and venue constraints. With the exception of Lady Gaga, who went bankrupt in the process, I've never seen a live performance where the dance numbers changed from performance to performance. They might be fine-tuned or tone-downed, and free-style sections might be incorporated, but the choreography is the same for the entire run.
Amulya, I think you make a good point. Another consideration is that while we here would put dance at the top of the priority list, she likely puts singing, the band's performance, the set-list, and costuming before choreography.
gisela
Super Moderator
I have to give her credit for her statement, and that has been my understanding of her dance as well. You should get some credit as well for seeing it, even though you are at the beginning of the bellydance journey
Your english is excellent BTW.
Did you know Bozenka chroeographed Shakira in the moongose tour?, in interviews she said that Shakira is a great student(i dont know the exact word) and that in some moves she struggles(i supose the shimmies) many people thougth that Bozenka actually teached Shakira to bellydance but that`s not the case.