lower back pain without stiffness, please help:)

[Loula]

Hi everyone,

I am really enjoying belly dancing so much and would love to keep practicing. But I am not really sure wether it is good for my back anymore...
Even though I do feel relief while I dace and my doctor has allowed me to do so, I am hoping to find somebody with a similar problem for advice or just sharing experiences.

It's hard to tell wether my back pain is being relieved or increased by the dancing since I have it every day in varying degrees anyway, so the reasons might be completely different..

Here's my problem: anatomically I have a spine abnormality called spina bifida occulta. Some of you might have heard of babies born with an "open back". In my case, thankfully, it was closed, without harm done to the spinal cord. For a long time I thought it was just a cosmetic problem since I had no pain -there is only a depression in my back like somebody stuck their finger in. Last year when it started hurting one doctor decided to get an x-ray (finally yay :/) and noticed that the spinous processes of three vertebrae were missing. This makes me quite curve-backed.But its probably not the cause of my pain (which is rather mild but constant especially when I sit for a long time).
In addition to that, one vertebrae slides a bit toward the belly (spondylolysthesis grade one).
On top of this I am hypermobile- i do not have any stiffness in the back and still am quite flexible (which differentiates me from most lower back patients I believe).

I was told that i could (and should) engage in most physical activities to build up core muscles, except for movements that arch the back a lot or have heavy lateral impact (heavy jogging/running on hard ground). Due to the hypermobility I am not supposed to stretch too much as in yoga- i made the mistake of trying to become more flexible which probably caused this oddyssey.

Does anybody suffer from a similar condition? I would love to know how belly dance affects your health. It would be truly highly appreciated!!
Note that I do pay attention to posture, especially tucking the tail bone and I avoid backbends and floor work (bcs I also have knee problems- i feel so old now ;P).I also try to do pilates for core strength in addition.

I'd really love to continue this dance, please tell me I can? ;P Thank you so much for reading , I am sure it was boring to most

Happy dancing,
Loula

 

[Greek Bonfire]

I would check with a physical therapist and/or your doctor more than anybody else. I wouldn't even touch this subject myself.

 

[Darshiva]

For core strength go to a certified pilates instructor with the medical info from your doctor. Make absolutely sure they are certified, write down their certification (what it is & where they got it), google it & if it comes up as a good cert/school, go back & book in for a private class.

With hypermobility & spine issues, it would not be good to do a group class as you need very specialised attention. Do the homework they give you religiously and you will need less by way of private lessons.

Once the pilates instructor has given you the all clear, in combination with your doctors, start looking into bellydance again.

The reason I'm suggesting avoiding bellydance for the moment is the current lack of formalised training meaning that anyone can set up a bellydance class regardless of skill or teaching ability. You don't want to risk inferior instruction aggravating the problem, so get your core sorted out first before resuming bellydance.

 

[Loula]

@greek bonfire: Oh I have checked with them! They have been of limited help though.I am not trying to self-diagnose or solve the problem on my own. I know it sounds very intimidating...according to the professionals it is not that bad though. I am just trying to figure out what I can do on my own since all the advice they could give me is "build core muscle strength" and "be sure to let your gynecologist know if you get pregnant"- i get that.
Thanks for your response!

@Darshiva: Thank you! Youre probably right about the certified pilates instructor. I had been doing pilates 3 times a week for at least 6 months before I got back into belly dance. But not under the best supervision. I'll try a "second opinion"

 

[Lydia]

Hi Loula,please dear take it serieus spina bofida is not for joking...But then dancing is a very good exercise for your back because it makes your backmuscles strong and that will be good for you because the muscle is supporting the spine...but like other say above, try not to fix it all alone and make sure you have proffesional people guiding you...what i do recomment keep a journal for yourself and write down everyday what you did in class ,and if you have pain the next day or not.. perhaps you find a pattern what agree,s with your back and what not,you will be surprised what agree,s and what not ....like twisting is not good at any time for the spine neither turning like spinning because you spine is like twisting aswell...and sometimes revers bodywaves can hurt the spine to....but you will find out if you keep a journal...i have people in class with back trouble and they get better when they dance,and if they stop for 2 weeks the pain comes back....dont forget to warm before class aswell...i am sure you know those things already.... then aswell make sure you do exercise to make your .upper legmuscles strong you will get support like that for your knee,s again the muscle will cary you, instead all the weight sits on your knee,s.....goodluck dear have a nice dancing day....

 

[Indigo Shimmer]

First I must give a disclaimer. If anything, anyone here says goes contrary to what your Dr. says, DON'T DO IT!

I have no idea what effects belly dancing would have on the condition of spina bifida. I am not a Dr.

I myself have the beginning stages of degenerative disc disease. Simply translated, my L1 is trying to go in a different direction than the others. One of the reasons I am taking belly dance is to GENTLY strengthen my back. My instructor has the challenging chore of teaching a mixed class. Half are young things with rubber for bones, the other half are older with the scars of living life making themselves evident. So every now and then when Crystal demonstrates a move, its with the warning, "For those of you over 21, don't push this move. If it hurts, don't do it."

You know, if I do 10 million crunches, I would probably have a nice flat belly. But because of my back, I physically cannot do just ONE crunch! ( And my chiro would have 15 fits! I like him very much. I do not want to piss him off! )

Take this to heart. If it hurts the least little bit, stop. You're not going for the Olympics of belly dance! You have your own goals. Give yourself goals you are well able to safely reach. So what you can't bend yourself over backwards and touch your head to your heels! You don't really NEED to do THAT move! Find another move you can easily do and let that be your signature move.

Take it easy and strengthen your back SLOWLY! Some moves will be challenging. Some moves won't. This is your HOBBY. Not your JOB! You control the shots. The only person you have to compete with is yourself!

Good Luck and stay safe!

Indigo S.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I do not want to hurt your feelings, but you really should not ask people who do not have a medical licence relevant to your condition. Since you doctor gave you the go ahead for dancing, I would keep dancing because that will keep your body healthy. One thing that I want you to do is ask your doctor for permission to do Pilates. Pilates can be modified for physical therapy purposes, but do not do it with out knowing what you are doing. Please try to get permission for all physical activity.

 

[Loula]

Thanks to everybody for their concern, I really do appreciate it!

The journal idea is really good , lydia!I sometimes really have a hard time saying what causes my back to hurt the next day!

@Indigo shimmer: my L1 disc has also slightly moved ventrally. To prevent this from getting worse, i should strengthen my belly among others. In contrast to you i am able to do crunches though (but not very well ;P). You sound like you have found a healthy balance for yourself, that's great! And even though I am not happy that you have a back condition , it is kind of comforting to know i am not alone.

@ismaila: Rest assured the doctors have given me green light to do all these things People who have been dancing for years have an amount of experience (or interest) that can surpass that of a doctor in specific areas and cases. Orthopedics barely have time for you anymore , give you a quick diagnosis and send you off. Here I was hoping to find someone with similar back issues so at least SOMEONE would say: I wouldn't do this... it's an extra saftey precaution, but naturally the first thing I did was check with my physician and instructors. All I was strictly forbidden to do by them is trampolin jumping
(oh and the pilates I do is back friendly and reccomended by doctor )

Happy, healthy dancing to all of you aswell!
I am going to an oriental bazar (with some belly dancing) today, yay! And dragging my bf along ;P Lets hope i dont spend too much money

 

[Alfonso]

Hi Loula,
I had back pain for 4 years before learning to dance. It was continuous lower back pain and used to vary from bad to unbearable. I had a car accident and minor injury lifting a few years before the pain started. Other than that I was diagnosed with disc degradation and it was OK to do exercises in general. At times I thought back pain was going to be for life.
I have been dancing Salsa, Zouk- Lambada and Bachata for 2-3 years (no belly dancing). Bachata does some hip movement. I was conservative in my approach and at times when I was becoming too exhausted I stop for the day etc. So far dancing has never affected my back pain in a negative way. My experience is if you are careful your own body tells you when something is not right. In Yoga and Pilates they tell you to “listen” to your body.
You will receive a lot of opinions about what is good or bad. From doctors (get a few second opinions) Yoga instructors, Pilates instructors, friends, etc. They all have different experiences and their own learning curves. You will very gradually make your own opinion about your situation as well.
Getting good quality information that applies to your own situation is difficult and at times depends on luck and your own persistence searching. I used to travel aprox 100 km to another city for good Pilates training. Unfortunately it is a long learning curve. I also learned not to assume that an imperfection in your back is automatically the reason for your back pain.
Fortunately my back pain is gone (what disc degradation!) When you go to Yoga and Pilates they tell you to “breathe” and “lengthen” I try to explain this in my solution to back pain blog Backpain88 it is very simple. In Yoga and Pilates you use abdominal muscles and breathing to stretch and strengthen the back. Breathing is more important to Yoga than extreme flexibility. It takes about 1 year of yoga to understand that but you can ask specifically for it. When I finally understood and practice it. It took 3-6 months for the back pain to disappear. Now I do it naturally and it also improves my dancing.
By the way this is a very nice forum. I didn't know men did belly dancing (silly me!)
Enjoy your dancing Loula.

 

[Kashmir]

On top of this I am hypermobile- i do not have any stiffness in the back and still am quite flexible (which differentiates me from most lower back patients I believe).

I was told that i could (and should) engage in most physical activities to build up core muscles, except for movements that arch the back a lot or have heavy lateral impact (heavy jogging/running on hard ground). Due to the hypermobility I am not supposed to stretch too much as in yoga- i made the mistake of trying to become more flexible which probably caused this oddyssey.

I don't have anything like your problems - but I do have hypermobility in the lower back cuased by incorrect stretching technique when I was younger (over 3cm of sideways movement apparently).

Do see a person like a rehab physio or a fully trained Pilates instructor (some are glorified gym bunnies). My guy had a team of four on my rehab. Because of the length of time my back was in constant spasm it needed (first drugs then) the ministrations of a hydrotherapist to relax and begin to strengthen it. I had serious massage. I had a technician who taught me the correct firing of my posture muscles (TAs & multifidis) to support my back using ultrasound feedback. And I had a "normal" physio to teach and evaluate my progress with a range of specific stretches and core strengthening exercises (many overlapped with what is used by some Pilates teachers but my physio said they had them first ) All took time.

Next, I had to serious look at belly dance technique. Some moves I never do now - and many people will actually think I'm stiff in the lower back but I have learnt not to do some moves as if I'm unlucky those vertebra will flick right back out. For me (and you might be different) lateral movement is fine (so no problem with hip rocks, drops, lifts etc), no problem with twists (horizontal eights are fine), mayas for some reason ar an issue and I avoid, vertical unders are fine. But all of these require good posture ie neutral pelvis and engaged TAs. Not the surface layer of abs - the postural ones.

I can extend my back ie arch - but I'm very careful that it doesn't go too far and I avoid flexing with weight - such as flop overs as it'll definitely pop me unless done very slowly with conscious engagement. (In theory you should always be engaged when dancing but I know after a couple of hours I get tired and the control slips)

Good luck - I hope you can find someone who can guide you with hands on - and if you are lucky also knows what belly dancers need to do - like my guy.

 

[Loula]

Alfonso,thank you for your input! you are absolutely right about the "journey"of discovering ones own back pain.With what you and kashmir said I must admit Iam not even aware of which movements actually dolead to pain ...in addition to Lydias suggestion of keeping a diary I think I will try to concentrate on one typeof movement per day then observe. Like, Monday I do twists, Wednesdays hip drops. Otherwise I'll probably be lost forver! You enjoy your dancing too and I hope you getinto belly dance aswell (too few men here)

dear kashmir, can I borrow "your guy"?? sometimes when I think about telling my doc that i am belly dancing I fear he wont even know which movements are involved and think "It's all in the belly" (as the name could suggest to some). I will try very hard to get a few more opinions and yes I believe you when you say it takes time . Maybe my instructor was more of a gym bunny, i was never taught how to fire my postural muscles as opposed to the external ones. I was even told there is no way to isolate the lower abs from the upper :/

Do you sometimes feel youre missing out because you can't do certain things? I am not allowing myself the flop-over either these days. I do miss it sometimes, it's a nice accent. Still have to find that great signature step of mine! i could definitely not avoid mayas , I love them! I am sure you dancing is lovely and maybe the back issues are just what make you stand out with your own style!

 

[Kashmir]

dear kashmir, can I borrow "your guy"?? sometimes when I think about telling my doc that i am belly dancing I fear he wont even know which movements are involved and think "It's all in the belly" (as the name could suggest to some). I will try very hard to get a few more opinions and yes I believe you when you say it takes time . Maybe my instructor was more of a gym bunny, i was never taught how to fire my postural muscles as opposed to the external ones. I was even told there is no way to isolate the lower abs from the upper :/

Mmm, an airfare to Brisbane and a personal recommendation might do it - Michael is a high flyer these days and spends a lot of time with elite athletes and golfers! I was lucky in that he was amazed at belly dancers and what they could do - and had to do. Before I had my back issues I'd already spend many hours learning safe dance with him. It was so useful that he could hone into the areas he could see would be issues with belly dancers. He was also aware of the age and body type range among students so wasn't assuming everyone was a fit, flexible ectomorph who only had to lift her leg to her ears.

Do you sometimes feel youre missing out because you can't do certain things? I am not allowing myself the flop-over either these days. I do miss it sometimes, it's a nice accent. Still have to find that great signature step of mine! i could definitely not avoid mayas , I love them! I am sure you dancing is lovely and maybe the back issues are just what make you stand out with your own style!

I'd love to be able to do flop overs - I've done a lot of classes with Aida Nour and she often uses it. However, they aren't great even for people without hypermobile lower backs; they really put a lot of strain on a couple of vertebrae. If mayas cause you no pain (that diary idea is great) - use them.

Yes, I've got a great personality