Courses, how many lessons do yours contain?

Amulya

Moderator
I am curious if this is different for each teacher. What format do you offer? Do you allow drop ins or only students who paid for the whole course? How long is each course?

Here is what I normally do:

courses of 10 lessons and no drop ins. Drop ins (with that I mean people who turn up every now and then) are too hard because if they come in at say the 5th lesson they can't keep up anymore with the rest and they will slow down everything.
Plus students pay for the whole thing in once. If someone wants to join later (and pay for the rest of the course what's left over), I'd allow, but they have to know they might not be able to keep up that well, lucky I have had some who were fast learners :)

Now maybe for some other class format it is possible to have drop ins, but my classes have very set goals.
The first course for beginners has as goal that at the end the students can do a little (simple) choreography and have also learned to do a bit of improv (again very simple). So dropping in at say, lesson 9 can be a bit tricky.

When it comes to beginners 2, brand new students can not drop in anymore because they'd be too far behind, unless they already had classes with someone else. The ones who have been taking classes with me before (finished the beginners 1) could drop in in theory, but again, there is a set course which has been paid for in advance.

When it comes to more advanced drop ins are OK in the sense that they can keep up, but I don't like the idea of people paying for seperate classes: you never know if someone turns up or not.

I am way too strict :lol: but as a teacher you need to protect your income.

A question for those who have ongoing classes with no set standards on how many lessons per course:
do you have standards of what students have to be able to do after a certain amount of lessons? How do you deal with people who enter later in the year so they can keep up? Do you let them pay in blocks for a certain amount of lessons, can they enter at any time?
 
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Darshiva

Moderator
I used to allow drop-ins because I was young & stupid. Not anymore. I stopped doing it because I was going broke & had no students.

My focus sessions allow drop-ins but everyone knows they need to let me know in advance because there's limited places and if they're travelling & they decide to not tell me they're coming they could miss their spot. So theoretically I have drop-ins but over the 6 months I've been running them I've had precisely two payments on the day and precisely zero who haven't let me know at least 4 days in advance that they were coming.

I guess it's different when there is a lot of time & money involved in travelling. People will be a lot more reliable under those circumstances.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I became adament about this right after I began to teach privately or I'd have starved in a dark cold apartment that I was about to get evicted from.

Students pay for the session. Whether they make it to all classes is their call but I find that students with a financial investment in classes tend to make the effort to attend unless there is a compelling reason to miss class. If I happen to be teaching two or three different classes I might allow students to make up lessons in another class but with the understanding that they are guests in that class and it may not be equivalent to what they are learning in their regular class.

Would the same people sign up for a zoology class at the local college and expect to only pay for the classes they attend?

And drop-ins? NEVER unless someone new just wants to try out a class, then maybe.

Ooo. I'm even mouthier than usual tonight. We had a rehearsal for the twice yearly rec center recital tonight and that always revs me into high gear.
 

Kashmir

New member
New beginners have to sign up for a course of 8 weeks (10 hours). I will allow them to pay for a single lesson (with a 50% mark up) in the first week if there is space.

Past that they pay for 4 or 11 classes at a time.

No refunds if they don't turn up - unless it is a really good story.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Forgot to mention number of classes per session. Privately I taught 8 classes per session, hour and a half to two hours each class. For the rec center I teach 12 week sessions hour and a half per class. Have occasionally taught a 16 week session but that's way too long.

Good stories: this isn't a belly dance excuse story and therefore off topic, so give me an infraction and I'll tell the story:

Deputy sheriff stopped a speeding car. He walked up to the driver's window and told the man behind the wheel, "It's late, I'm off shift in fifteen minutes, and if you can tell me a story I've never heard before I'll let you go without a ticket.

The man said, "My wife ran off with a deputy. When I saw you I was afraid you were bringing her back."

Deputy said, "Have a nice day" and returned to his car.
 

Amulya

Moderator
I'd like to see opinions on how the classes/courses are put together :). What do you teach in a course that takes 8 weeks? Or one that is 12 weeks? Any goals? Especially with beginners, do you still let people in (if they pay for the rest of the course) when it is already half way and there is space for them? What about for more advanced classes?
 
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Aniseteph

New member
I'm not a teacher but... here's my 2 cents as a student :D

My teacher went over to paid-in-advance courses (usually 6-8 weeks depending how terms play out) a couple of years ago. Great move. There was a little griping about finding the money in advance and paying for missed classes, but I think everyone has got used to it. Attendance seems to be better. Some weeks are quieter, but the vast majority will only miss the odd class and then be back.

For me the advantages are:

A set course really keeps things focused. People know that it's a short course so we have to crack on and not get sidetracked, or spend time going over last weeks material for the benefit of people who weren't there. The drop-ins were terrible for this, and IMO encouraged flakey attendance. Apart from the fact that you already paid for it, knowing you will miss significant content is an incentive to turn up.

If you aren't thrilled with the topic, it'll be something new in a few weeks; any dance/music you don't like is not going to be the main menu indefinitely.

It saves about 10 mins of faffing about paying every lesson.

We only get the "sign up or the course won't run" reminders occasionally, rather than a constant worry.​
We've done all sorts of topics, usually around a choreography but not always. Choreographies for (student show) performance usually get more than one session as they can be a bit rough at the edges after just one, unless they are short and repeaty.
 

Pleasant dancer

New member
I run 12 week courses of 1 hour long. These are divided by level i.e. beginners, improvers, intermediates, with a bit of an overlap if a student is willing/able to undertake something that might be a bit above them at the time (doesn't happen very often). They pay in advance, but can pay in 2 instalments of 6 weeks. I ask for post-dated cheques for the 2nd instalment, but only the new beginners do this, it tends to get lapsed with other students (but then again some of the really keen ones - and those who can afford to - pay for all 12 weeks up front).

If they miss a class they can attend another of a lower level to make up, some do, many don't. Refunds are limited to long-term sickness and bereavement (or I offer credit).

I usually have a different choreography each term (sometimes two) and often a theme, e.g. classical Egyptian, baladi for the term. I also drill and do combo's, often the combo's that I intend to put into a choreography at some point. If we have a hafla/performance we will rehearse choreography more.

Beginners (and those joining at higher levels) can pay for a single drop-in to see if they like me and what I do. If they are joining mid-term and wish to continue they pay for the rest of the term pro-rata. I repeat the beginners course for 3 terms but using a different simple choreography with different steps, so newbie's are accommodated and repeaters don't get bored. Seems to work ok.

I don't do drop-ins. Wouldn't survive very long if I did and courses wouldn't run. You only learn this by experience I think.
 

gisela

Super Moderator
This is my first year teaching so my experience is limited from a teachers point of view. I teach through a University sports organisation so they have all the say in how the courses are structured (except for content of course). I have weekly 1,5 hour classes from September through April. Students pay in advance for the whole season. If they sign up in January they pay half price. No refunds after two classes (I think). Possibility to change to a more suitable level for a small fee or for free if the teacher is in agreement.

Then there is a separate summer session in May-June.

The looong session makes me feel very calm and reassured that I have a (albeit small) income until April. It also gives a good environment in the class for working with the students and referring back to earlier moves and information. I like it.


Usually though, the teachers here have 12-14 week sessions (Sept-Dec, Jan-April or May) and we pay in advance. At one school they pay once a month in advance, but you don't get a discount for missing a class, and you can't just start and stop how you like.

I once tried a drop in class and I found that the lack of continuity and progress bothered me. It might work in some instances but I could not imagine me teaching in that format.
 

Yame

New member
Right now I am teaching privates only, so I haven't had to go through the drop-in dilemma. With that said, I have a pretty good idea of how I would set up class sessions, prices, and drop-in rules, with some room for accomodation depending on the studio, attendance, etc.

Whether or not to allow drop-ins is something that I think should vary depending on scenario. Where I live and the way I teach, it would be very unlikely that I would be able to allow drop-ins in my class, because studio rental isn't cheap and a certain amount of students is needed to cover costs. That, and there isn't a lot of interest for belly dance at the time, so it's hard to get enough students. Plus, judging by student retention rates I see at other people's classes, I can tell new students are very flaky... so I wouldn't be able to rely on that, I'd have to receive payment for the full session from everyone up front.

With that said, I am not totally against allowing drop-ins, and if the teacher's situation allows, I think s/he should not have a policy against it. At the beginner level it is more justified, because beginners' progress should be followed consistently and thoroughly, but at more advanced or mixed levels drop in classes can be a big help for people who just can't make it to a class every single week. I know I personally have taken advantage of drop-in classes from teacher who are much too far away for me to take classes with every week, but with whom I like studying.
 

Yame

New member
As for sessions, for my regular privates I separate the class into 10-week sessions, which is the same way I'd separate a regular group class. The dynamic is different, but the material I teach is basically the same unless of course the person is booking a private on a particular topic.

I like 10 weeks because it's a nice number, easy to multiply when the session is being fully paid for up front, and because 10 weeks is generally enough for me to teach all or most of the material that I have prepared for each level and for the student to grasp it, given regular practice which I always encourage. For that, anything close to 10 weeks does the job, but I'd be hesitant to separate my sessions into fewer than 10 weeks.
 

Amulya

Moderator
Most teachers who allow drop ins have a higher fee for the drop ins. I have only had one teacher who charged the same, but her classes were always full so she didn't need to worry.

At the moment I am only interested in teaching private classes, but thinking of starting courses again later next year.
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Because i teach through community centres we follow the school term - paid up front, so they range from 8 to 10 weeks. I also have 2 teachers and they both follow the school terms as well, and we pay for the term up front. With the community centre if you miss classes too bad ( they control the fees and pay me to teach) One of my teachers allows you to make a class up if you wish by joining one of her other classes for a session in the same term (missed classes don't roll over to any other term) The other teacher with my particular class is more casual she'll roll a class cost over to the next term because in that particular class there is only 2 of us & we are more than just students we are a small troupe & friends and she knows she can alter times even days with us if she needs too (she teaches karate & self defence to school kids and also women at risk and sometimes those classes have time alterations) Her other classes are more formal like my other teachers. Both my teachers have their own studios, so are not caught in the community centre system.

So after all that I would personally ( if I had my own studio) follow a school term timetable with payment up front:D
~Mosaic
 
I'm not a teacher but here's some feedback as a student.

If I'm thinking of trying a new belly dance school and they insist I pay for the whole term upfront, I won't go. Why should I buy a pig in a poke?

I'm happy to pay for the first class (at a premium, if necessary), which is then deducted from the term fee if I decide to stay.

However, if I have the choice between a school that offers a multi-class pass or one that is pay-by-the-term, I'll opt for the school that offers the multi-class pass.

Why? Because I'm an adult with adult responsibilities, and although bellydance class is one of my big priorities, it's almost certain I'll have a work or family emergency at least once during a term - so I never get full value when I pay for a term pass :(

A 10-class pass valid for 3 months means I get full value for my money even if I miss a class or two, but I still have an incentive to attend as often as possible to use up my pass before it expires.
 

Mya

New member
Ok so i teach my classes in 3 month blocks as well - 12 weeks at 1 1/4 hrs per week. I do not allow drop ins because i have rent to pay, my classes are small and people (here at least) are not dedicated when it comes to dropping in. Like Amulya, if someone comes in during the semester and wants to pay for the remainder while understanding that they will be playing catch up, i will allow it.

IF someone does want to try it, i would consider the whole premium fee to be deducted business, but to me one class doesn't give you a good idea of how a course will run. In my Beginners 2 - providing the student had already done my 1 class or someone else's, i would allow a multi-class pass. but i haven't had that happen.

It also makes things complicated because my students have a FB group where i make available little video clips of what we've done in class so that they can practise during the week and receive any interesting links that i may come across online - like Shira's site. how do i manage that with drop ins and multi-passers. it really dilutes the dance education, which is really my priority.

About my course Amulya, my Beginners 1 is pure fundamentals, basic movements, introduction to the culture, musicality and re-orientation for the first 9-weeks. i come from a culture where gyrating is the norm and where there is alot of indian dancing so everyone thinks that they know what bellydance is even though they generally absolutely do not - that's why i have re-orientation. lol. my last 3 weeks are purely practise. they use what they've learnt to follow me dancing. i don't teach choreography just yet because they tend to switch to counting rather than listening to the music if i do it to soon. at the end of the 12 weeks, i offer 2 sessions where i do a very short sample choreography. it's optional, but people usually take them.
 

Amulya

Moderator
I think the 10 lesson pass works for bigger belly dance schools, if you teach gazillion of classes. Then it doesn't matter when students exactly turn up. But I have been to classes like those when I was a student and it took away from the quality of the classes: always different students and the level stayed low.

Btw in community centers it was easier to allow students to try out because you're not dependant on pay by the students directly. But again, it can be hard for them if they drop in late. Adding them to the rest of the course is easy.
Those courses were so cheap that it wasn't an issue if people couldn't come for one lesson (money-wise that is) they might have a hard time catching up though.

My first teachers were in comminity centers and yes I skipped some classes too if I couldn't come, it was so cheap that it wasn't a loss.
 
I think the 10 lesson pass works for bigger belly dance schools, if you teach gazillion of classes. Then it doesn't matter when students exactly turn up. But I have been to classes like those when I was a student and it took away from the quality of the classes: always different students and the level stayed low.

That's why I suggested a short expiry for the pass. For instance, if each term is 10 weeks, and the pass is only valid for 3 months, a student can't afford to miss more than one or two classes if they're going to get their money's worth - so there's still an incentive to turn up.

IF someone does want to try it, i would consider the whole premium fee to be deducted business, but to me one class doesn't give you a good idea of how a course will run.

That's true, but one class will tell me whether a teacher is hopeless. You might be surprised how many bad dance teachers manage to attract enough students to keep a school running, so you can't judge a school by its longevity (or its glossy website).

I once went to a flamenco class with a teacher who was once quite a famous dancer. It was a fiasco, because she was drunk. I spoke quietly to one of the other students and they admitted she was frequently drunk, but they stuck it out because if she did manage to arrive sober, the classes were excellent.

I decided I wasn't prepared to pay for such hit-and-miss instruction!

As it happened, she didn't collect the money till the end of the class but she expected me to pay for the whole term. I have to admit I lied and said I didn't have enough money. After a bit of grumbling she let me pay $25 as a deposit, with the rest to be paid at the next class.

Needless to say I didn't go back.

That's the worst experience I've had, but I've also tried out at a bellydance school where the teacher was clearly an intermediate student who knew less than I did about bellydance technique and exercising safely. Her beginner students would no doubt have given her a good review, but her "Advanced" class was more like a Beyond Beginners. If I'd had to pay for a whole term upfront, I would've totally wasted my money.

So maybe you can see why I refuse to pay upfront for a whole term with an unknown teacher. And I'm sure I'm not the only student who's had similar experiences.
 
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Darshiva

Moderator
This is where your site (and those like them) comes in handy though. It's pretty hard to fake good dancing on video and the peer reviews can help a student pick a good teacher.

I don't do drop-ins because they are just killer with the rent I pay, but anyone who wants to see me teaching just needs to pop onto youtube as I have a clip of me teaching some private students (that I uploaded with their consent).
 

AndreaSTL

New member
I have used sessions before that were determined by the facility. The problem I was up against was students who took the 6 or 8 week beginner course now thought they were ready for the next class. I understand the thought that they were ready to progress. After all, they were done with this and on to the next, right? Unfortunately, it isn't the beginners who realize how much there is to learn, and they seem insulted if you want them to repeat the beginner session.

Without having 30 classes a week, how do your students advance levels? Are they required to do the first class multiple times? Do you focus the advanced classes on topics? Can they go after attending X many classes, or do you promote them to the next class?
 
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