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  1. #41
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
    What you seem to be saying is you do less hip work and more upperbody work. Embrace the dark side - move those hips
    It takes a HUGE amount of effort for most males to "break free" their hips - and their chests. Goddess knows I was one!

  2. #42
    Senior Member Erik's Avatar
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    The only time I remember feeling discriminated against as a male was during the 1990's under President Clinton. I really did not care for President Clinton, although her husband Bill seemed like a nice guy.

    To Zorba: I was wondering if you recognize any limit to stereotypical female clothing worn by males. When I first joined this forum I began reading old threads and there was one by a guy who wanted to wear a bra. It was about the most unintentionally comical thing I ever read. As I recall the dancers who replied were all female, but I may be wrong about this, and I thought their replies were excellent. Can't remember if it was under male dance or costumes. It may be archived now.

    I read your Gender Rant. Like you I am a chess player and take only a mild interest in sports. I didn't even know Denver and New England were in the same conference.

    Unlike you I drink beer, but because I like it and not because of any ridiculous male bonding garbage. I prefer conversation with women because I find most men to be boring. The brand I drink is something of a rare import here and if I cannot find it I usually prefer not to drink at all. The ancient Egyptians also liked beer, and Japanese saki is tecnically not a wine but a beer, but in the West beer drinking is something else.

    Hair is hair. Mine is still growing, and I am overcoming my prejudice against females with buzz-cut hair. I don't remember ever treating anyone differently because of his/her hair, but I have noticed that certain folks can be more stand-offish when my hair is long.

    Agree on neckties. I think I look damn good wearing a necktie, and I actually know how to tie one, but I do not enjoy wearing them. I imagine it's what a dog collar must feel like. They are primarily for weddings and funerals.

    To Khanjar: I don't see how everything can ever be completely fair and equal between the genders, but I also think the world is more interesting because of the differences. Discrimination happens. It will continue to happen. You can hate it, but it's like hating bad weather or heavy traffic. I've been discriminated against many times for numerous reasons, and now I just do my best to let it roll off. If you are content with yourself that's what matters.

  3. #43
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    Good for you Erik in your approach, but when one receives discrimination in a society where we are told in modern Western society equal opportunities for all exist and there are laws to prove, you kind of start wondering about stuff, because if such and such affects you personally, what about others and where they are affected, because it is me to help out, if I can and that because I view males and females as equal in all things and I do not believe in more than equal as that is once again discrimination.

    But as to Zorba's comments about preferring female professionals, that goes for me too, because I have found women actually listen to what I am saying, whereas many males look like they are listening, but they aren't and that has been proved by the very near total loss of my hearing through a male doctor who wasn't listening to what I had to say, but he signed me up for a course of treatment anyway, if it hadn't have been for the female nurse who was to do the treatment asking me my problem and listening to what I had to say and then refusing point blank to do the treatment, today I would most likely have been deaf. That taught me to apply to women not men, as it is not only about listening which women do very well, but empathy too and many males I have discovered totally lack in that department.

    But it is my thought that if it were that the female gender was in history the dominant gender in this world, perhaps we would be a bit more advanced than we are, for all that males seem to know what to do, is to start wars which serve no one but an extreme minority.

  4. #44
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    It takes a HUGE amount of effort for most males to "break free" their hips - and their chests. Goddess knows I was one!
    To that I agree, but in answer to Kashmir's suggestion, yes, I do use my hips, but it is not as easy as using the upper body, using the hips does not come naturally, but hey, now since learning a bit of BD, hips are the way to go, I can even augment change of direction by shifting the hips instead of using more effort to change direction.

    This as mentioned elsewhere, helps me avoid colliding with waist high objects I often plough into in metal workshops when I am busy and am not immediately aware of my surroundings. The movement is natural now and part of my perambulation, although I have had a few people comment on my use of hips, women like it men don't. I have also found with my other interest that of all terrain cycling more natural and safer changes of direction can be obtained via the hips and I believe many motor cyclists and Kayackers would also agree, hip movement is an advantage.

  5. #45
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    The only time I remember feeling discriminated against as a male was during the 1990's under President Clinton. I really did not care for President Clinton, although her husband Bill seemed like a nice guy.
    Snort!
    To Zorba: I was wondering if you recognize any limit to stereotypical female clothing worn by males. When I first joined this forum I began reading old threads and there was one by a guy who wanted to wear a bra. It was about the most unintentionally comical thing I ever read. As I recall the dancers who replied were all female, but I may be wrong about this, and I thought their replies were excellent. Can't remember if it was under male dance or costumes. It may be archived now.
    I remember that thread - and I agree with you. I place "the line" at biology. Guys don't need bras (gynecomastia not withstanding), gals don't need jockstraps. If a guy is going to wear a dress, it needs to be tailored for his physique - no boobs, probable wider shoulders, different hip/waist ratio, etc. Otherwise, wear what you want - jewelry, makeup, hair "stuff", skirts, etc have no gender. People seem to think that I'm trying to be a woman by what I do/wear. Nothing could be farther from the truth - I'm just "me". I'm a guy, I make no apologies for that - but at the same time, my gender is irrelevant outside the bedroom and the bathroom!
    I read your Gender Rant. Like you I am a chess player and take only a mild interest in sports. I didn't even know Denver and New England were in the same conference.
    I usually watch the Super bowl, although I didn't this year as I "didn't have a dog in that fight".
    Unlike you I drink beer, but because I like it and not because of any ridiculous male bonding garbage. I prefer conversation with women because I find most men to be boring. The brand I drink is something of a rare import here and if I cannot find it I usually prefer not to drink at all. The ancient Egyptians also liked beer, and Japanese saki is technically not a wine but a beer, but in the West beer drinking is something else.
    That's fine. I *personally* don't "believe in" alcohol, drugs, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. But that's a personal thing. Prohibition is an excellent idea that has NO chance whatsoever of working, so we might as well legalize ALL of it and collect the tax revenues.
    Hair is hair. Mine is still growing, and I am overcoming my prejudice against females with buzz-cut hair. I don't remember ever treating anyone differently because of his/her hair, but I have noticed that certain folks can be more stand-offish when my hair is long.
    You'd think in the 21st century, we'd be past all that... True story: When walking around the neighborhood (or where-ever), I noticed many people, especially "little old ladies" would look nervously at me with my long hair and beard. Then I started wearing skirts. It somehow "gentled" my appearance I guess, the same kind of people weren't nearly as nervous! Or so it seemed to me.
    Agree on neckties. I think I look damn good wearing a necktie, and I actually know how to tie one, but I do not enjoy wearing them. I imagine it's what a dog collar must feel like. They are primarily for weddings and funerals.
    I think they look ridiculous, and will never wear one again - I didn't when I walked my daughter down the aisle at her wedding. I got lots of compliments on my jewelry though!

  6. #46
    Moderator Amulya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    That would have been Mike Waldie - also in England.

    This seems to be a real problem in GB - not so much here in the states. I don't grok...

    I can't remember his name, but the person I mentioned was a man who later became a woman; after the sex change she was allowed into classes... But I can imagine it would have been really awkward to take classes with people who first didn't want her in them.
    (this was in the UK)

  7. #47
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    now since learning a bit of BD, hips are the way to go, I can even augment change of direction by shifting the hips instead of using more effort to change direction.
    I've often thought a few kayaking lessons would help belly dancers get the feel of the hips to change direction thing. Problem would be possible drownings if they couldn't master an Eskimo Roll.

  8. #48
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    I second Zorba in his statement as to not wear a tie ever again , because they are useless in terms of clothing and dangerous, that is why UK police wear detachable ties, so they can't be controlled by the neck. But that is what a tie is, it is a leash in which busy body employers control those they employ by making them wear ties which as I have said serve no other purpose and are in fact dangerous.

    In fact, I can't remember the last time I wore a tie, must have been at the end of '95 when I quit the military.

    But from history, the neck tie originated in the military, where it served to display one's allegiance so yet another reason not to wear one, as I am opposed to militaristic actions and belonging to a controlling organisation.

  9. #49
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amulya View Post
    I can't remember his name, but the person I mentioned was a man who later became a woman; after the sex change she was allowed into classes... But I can imagine it would have been really awkward to take classes with people who first didn't want her in them.
    (this was in the UK)
    One and the same: Mike Waldie who became Helen Waldie. She's somewhere in Bulgaria last I heard.

  10. #50
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wonder if it would be better if one went for a sex change given much that goes on, but of the transsexuals I know, being a ts is not a picknick, as even many females still see the male gender despite not having male parts, so unless the person concerned is a self confident person, they are in for a very rough ride where many consider them neither one sex or the other.

    But if not that in this world of dance, to get a class, I have even considered to lie about my sexuality as homosexuals seem to be better tolerated by many women and that, because homosexuals are considered to be no threat.

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