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  1. #61
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    Yep, I know a ts male to female that was detained and questioned by US border security when she tried to enter America and charged with impersonation because despite what her UK paperwork said, America defines a person by what is between their legs and she ended up detained overnight in a male prison and denied her medication, the medication she needed as part of her transformation. She ended up getting deported from the US the next morning, never to return again.

    I also know another that works in the local garage, a female to male ts, a fantastic mechanic and a wholly decent person, but me being me, I didn't notice he was in fact a ts, until he said, when I asked his name and looked I puzzled when he said to call him his old female name, as most around there knew him as that.

    So people, there are a lot of differences out there, be kind and treat them as you would like to be treated yourself, for it is very difficult for many to be honest and true to themselves.

  2. #62
    Moderator Amulya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    One and the same: Mike Waldie who became Helen Waldie. She's somewhere in Bulgaria last I heard.
    Yes now I remember! I hope she's well and dancing!


    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    Yep, I know a ts male to female that was detained and questioned by US border security when she tried to enter America and charged with impersonation because despite what her UK paperwork said, America defines a person by what is between their legs and she ended up detained overnight in a male prison and denied her medication, the medication she needed as part of her transformation. She ended up getting deported from the US the next morning, never to return again.

    That is disgusting! That's downright physically harmful and not to mention mentally.

    Just OT, but how come so many female to male trasngenders don't get the surgery? Is it impossible? Or just not something that would work out that well? I never dared to ask someone who is female to male transgender. The male to female transgenders all get the surgery, unless they can't afford, which is so sad.
    The daughter, now son, of Cher didn't get a surgery either, but has a wife. How does a partner deal with that? To me that seems impossible, but maybe some people are more accepting.


    Back to the topic: it's a shame men can get away with less than women, but they should be able to dress, have make-up, jewelry etc if they want to. Zorba, good on you that you just do it anyway!

  3. #63
    Moderator Darshiva's Avatar
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    It's easier to make a vulva from a penis than the other way around. Many F to M transgenders prefer to have working genitals & just use prosthetics when required.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Erik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    P.S. for Erik:

    I also have a pierced navel and a "tramp stamp" tattoo - both of which are considered "girly". I got them as a large percentage of my local dance sisters have them and I like them. I'm getting a Lotus flower on the nape of my neck in about 3 weeks.

    Geez, I have a lower back and a navel - what's "Feminine" about that? I'd like to get a nose stud too - but I have so many problems with my nose and sinuses, that it wouldn't be pretty! But I have a nose as well! Now I might have a problem getting a clitoral piercing as that's biology and truly a girl piercing!

    Not to mention my HUGE collection of dangle earrings - whoops, I have ears!

    I like "pretty" things and being beautiful. There's no reason whatsoever why a male cannot be beautiful if he wants to be. I wear a small amount of makeup in my daily life - and of course tons of it to perform. I keep my nails painted and my eyebrows waxed. Why not? Its fun! My wife and I often go to the nail salon together - although we go to different salons for brows and facials. Oops! I have a face, eyebrows and nails!
    Zorba, all I can think of to say is, "How lovely for you!"

  5. #65
    Senior Member Erik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    I second Zorba in his statement as to not wear a tie ever again , because they are useless in terms of clothing and dangerous, that is why UK police wear detachable ties, so they can't be controlled by the neck. But that is what a tie is, it is a leash in which busy body employers control those they employ by making them wear ties which as I have said serve no other purpose and are in fact dangerous.

    In fact, I can't remember the last time I wore a tie, must have been at the end of '95 when I quit the military.

    But from history, the neck tie originated in the military, where it served to display one's allegiance so yet another reason not to wear one, as I am opposed to militaristic actions and belonging to a controlling organisation.
    I am reminded of a statement made by Liam Neeson in a magazine interview years ago, something about the Greeks being remembered for their art and culture, and not for their military accomplishments. Even at the time I thought his statement was simplistic. Four battles; Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and Plataea. If not for them there would have likely been no Greek art and culture to be remembered.

    Did you know that for almost a year (June 1940 to May 1941) your country was the only country in the world offering any effective resistance to fascism? While remembering British imperialism and atrocities we might take a moment to be grateful for that. On a different thread recently you remarked that we live in the remnants of the British Empire. Quite true, but I can think of much worse remnants that we might be living in.

  6. #66
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    ...I was going to suggest once back in the flow of things that I concentrate on solo tribal as a compliment to the rest of the female troupe, ...
    OK, excluding situations where it's a troupe where commercial considerations matter and everyone has to match up more or less to the GPs idea of a belly dancer...

    [rant]
    Gah!!!.... why on earth would anyone expect you to have to do anything different to anyone else in the troupe?

    Especially in a tribal group where the look can be so much more eclectic - really, who cares if there's a guy in there?

    Maybe it upsets someone's "artistic vision" - so might someone who's a few stone heavier, or much older, or a different colour to the rest of the troupe; would it be OK to discriminate against them too? When you are Busby Berkeley or MC you can worry about the uniformity of your chorus girls; the rest of us should just do the right thing, suck it up and get used to it and get over ourselves. And be grateful for anyone who is enthusiastic and can dance or is serious about learning, and has something to contribute.

    [/rant]

    Ties - weren't they originally a fashion craze that people wanted to wear to be cutting edge and trendy? IMO it's just what happens when fashion gets absorbed into expected standards of dress (yes, very mixed up with gender/class issues). They are no more intrinsically controlling than being expected to wear a suit, and stupid uncomfortable shoes for women. Society/class sets the expectations, step outside and you make a statement that some employers might not be happy with while you are representing them, hence written dress codes.

    Some hospitals also ban ties now as they are an infection hazard. And long sleeves that interfere with proper hand washing.

  7. #67
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    Yes, ties are generally minging, ever seen the bottom of them where someone has leant over a table and dragged the abomination through food and filth, many of them could even be a veritable health hazard, so good for Hospitals for recognising this fact, it might do something towards cutting the infection out breaks UK hospitals seem so good at creating.

    But much of my situation regarding tight restrictive clothing is a claustrophobic feeling, sometimes a near panic at something tight around my neck, I guess I must have had ancestry that received the final necktie.

    But it is, the tie's ultimate origin is I believe something to do with the Croat's hence the Cravat which became the tie as it was tied around the neck.

    As to my suggestion with the dance to dance solo, that was my own interest, not that of the class, as I have discovered much of my problem with dancing with others, is a panic, am I doing it right or are they, with me knowing of my dyspraxic issues, I always defer to others and believe myself to be doing it wrong. So in solo dance, I am totally reliant on myself, no distractions so I may concentrate completely on what I am doing without fear of messing everyone else up, as has been known when the movement is designed to be in one direction I go the other, as the direction's left and right, I have to actually stop myself and think about which direction is which before making the move.
    Last edited by khanjar; 02-10-2012 at 04:19 PM.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Duvet's Avatar
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    There's not a lot of tribal in Devon, Khanjar, but then there's not alot of Tribal in the UK fullstop. Samantha Emmanuel (Vagabond Princess) is based in Exeter, Kali Tribe are based in Kingsbridge, and Kalash are in Tiverton, thats all I know, but Plymouth is a bit out in the stix. I'd love to do Tribal myself, but again the travelling is a bit prohibitive.
    You mentioned a tribe in Colchester you would join if you could. Do they have any contacts for anyone neaer you?

  9. #69
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Zorba, all I can think of to say is, "How lovely for you!"
    Thanx. Its "my thing", it makes me happy, blah, blah. Kumbayah!

  10. #70
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aniseteph View Post
    [rant]
    Gah!!!.... why on earth would anyone expect you to have to do anything different to anyone else in the troupe?

    Especially in a tribal group where the look can be so much more eclectic - really, who cares if there's a guy in there?
    I am now in a troupe whose director once made it VERY well known that there would NEVER be a male in her troupe.

    Not because she dislikes male dancers - in fact, she's best friends with famed male dancer Kamaal, and has been one of my best supporters.

    Her reasoning was twofold: 1) Her troupe was/is all about "female empowerment", and 2) She felt a male dancer would "steal the focus" in a performance situation.

    Then I joined her class, and danced with her troupe as a "special guest" performer. She saw that I didn't threaten nor change her "female empowerment" idea (they're a bunch of Goddess worshiping feminists). She also found partly because of who I am, and partly because she could costume me virtually identically to everyone else in the troupe (just no bras on me), that I didn't steal the focus either.

    As my spirituality is "compatible" with hers, it has all worked out fantastically for everyone involved. But she still says "not every male would be able to fit - and you work because you're weird!".

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