Which style has the snakiest arm movements

nataliecloud9

New member
Is there a belly dance style that has the snakiest arm movements?
Does Turkish Belly Dancing have the snakiest arm movements?
I just love snakey arms, they are so hypnotic :)
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Snake arms are basically the same in all styles, I suppose they can look different on each dancer, some get the shoulders rolling better than others.
~Mosaic
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
Actually, I just think it's how each dancer presents his/her art. Some perform with more snake arm movements than others is how I perceive it.
 

Kashmir

New member
Is there a belly dance style that has the snakiest arm movements?
Does Turkish Belly Dancing have the snakiest arm movements?
I just love snakey arms, they are so hypnotic :)
Snake arms are totally optional in belly dance - it's the hips that count. In Egyptian dance you will sometimes see an arm undulation with a shoulder roll. I don't think I've every seen an Indian style snake arm with ultra-isolation by a person dancing a strictly ME style belly dance. That said, yes, you do see more arms in Turkish than other ME styles. And of course, I believe it is a must for AmCab.
 

Salome

Administrator
Yep what Kashmir said. There is a marked difference and... a lot more involvement of the arms in Turkish than there is in Egyptian and Lebanese. And that is very true of American Oriental.
 

Yame

New member
I would say tribal fusion probably has the snakiest arm movements. Some tribal fusion dancers look like they have snakes for arms!

In Arab styles, snake arms are used minimally if at all. In American Cabaret, it depends on the dancer. Some do them a lot, but the more "Arabized" dancers do them minimally as well.
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
I would rate it as Tribal Fusion, then Turkish, and then American Oriental. You don't really see it in the Arabic styles and Tribal Fusion prides itself on it's "serpentine" movements.
 

Sophia Maria

New member
Yup--I agree with Yame and Ariadne, as far as I've seen Tribal Fusion seems to have the snakiest arms. Also, even though many dancers in the states dance a style influenced by Egyptian style, if you watch an Egyptian dancer today generally he or she will use less arm movements than an American dancer...correct me if I'm wrong? But that's what I've seen
 

Kashmir

New member
Also, even though many dancers in the states dance a style influenced by Egyptian style, if you watch an Egyptian dancer today generally he or she will use less arm movements than an American dancer...correct me if I'm wrong? But that's what I've seen
Yes, arms are used to frame - but the dancing is mostly in the hips (with the feet keeping time in some substyles)
 

Nedeia

New member
from what I've seen as well, tribal dance is the one. It makes me think at the wise woman in the tribe, mastering the power of the earth, symbolized by the snake
 

Afrit

New member
from what I've seen as well, tribal dance is the one. It makes me think at the wise woman in the tribe, mastering the power of the earth, symbolized by the snake
Mmm :think: - so another reason to separate tribal from belly dance which has nothing to do with wise women, earth power and snakes?
 

Nedeia

New member
Mmm :think: - so another reason to separate tribal from belly dance which has nothing to do with wise women, earth power and snakes?

Ok, is this an old dispute I stepped into without knowing? :)

all I said is that this is what the tribal dance makes me think at. I see a different type of power in belly dance.

FOR ME, the tribal dance speaks about a special power, the healer of the community, the wise. the priestess.

FOR ME, belly dance speaks about another special power, the mother, the one who gives her heart in a motherly way, the giver of warmth in a home.

This is my personal opinion. And I love both styles of dance. And I do not believe that one is better than the other. This is how I feel them, and when it comes about feelings, I am right :). Because this applies to me only, not to anybody else's opinion. I choose to see them this way because it is wht I need right now :)

If I offended anyone, I apologize, it was NOT my intention. :)
 

Jane

New member
Ok, is this an old dispute I stepped into without knowing? :)

Yes. Belly dancers have been fighting myths about the dance for years. Goddesses, snakes, matriarchies, imaginary tribes, and ancient mysticism have never been proven to have any connection to belly dance historically. It's simply a lovely concept that's unprovable. For many westerners, these things are a connection to spirituality, but belly dance is a cultural dance of the Middle East which is predominantly Muslim. Dancers who are native to the areas this dance comes from do not connect these things with their dance.

all I said is that this is what the tribal dance makes me think at. I see a different type of power in belly dance.

For many women, especially in Western European cultures, this dance can be empowering. The reality is quite different in the Middle East. Dancers there are not generally respected in society. "Son of a dancer" is used as an insult. Dancers are considered little better than prostitutes and many are prostitutes on the side. Of course there are highly paid, talented dancers, who are not prostitutes and dance at respectable venues there, but Middle Eastern society remains conflicted about the role of women in public society using her body for money. Different culture, different morals and attitudes.

FOR ME, the tribal dance speaks about a special power, the healer of the community, the wise. the priestess.

I'm not sure why American Tribal feels so different to you than authentic belly dance. Is it the group dynamic? The tribal dancers I've met were no more powerful or competent than any other average person. This is simply dancing, not a new cult. Power to me is a Middle Eastern woman who feels so compelled to dance that she risks her place in society, her relationship with her family, and her life to be a professional belly dancer.

FOR ME, belly dance speaks about another special power, the mother, the one who gives her heart in a motherly way, the giver of warmth in a home.

You've totally lost me here. Many dancers are indeed mothers. Some prefer not to have children, some can't, some are gay and some are men. Most mothers around the world have never belly danced a day in their life. This is putting a lot of baggage on dancers and a dance that has no direct correlation to any of these things. The faster you dump these romantic notions about the dance, the faster you will grasp the realities of belly dance. It is what it is, not the fantasy we outsiders want it to be. Sometimes the truth is beautiful and ugly at the same time.

This is my personal opinion. And I love both styles of dance. And I do not believe that one is better than the other. This is how I feel them, and when it comes about feelings, I am right :). Because this applies to me only, not to anybody else's opinion. I choose to see them this way because it is wht I need right now :)

You can have any personal opinion you like, but it does not change the reality of the situation belly dance and dancers face. Native people from the lands of belly dance sometimes see us as patronizing foreigners messing around with their culture to suit our own agendas. The western world is coming from a place of power and has consistently lacked sensitivity over issues of cultural appropriation.

If I offended anyone, I apologize, it was NOT my intention. :)

Of course you did not intentionally offend anyone. I am certainly not offended. I do believe that you are letting your personal fantasies about the dance override the reality. The real history and culture of these dances are much more interesting and complex than anything imaginary! You might enjoy watching Amazon.com: The Bellydancers of Cairo: Various Artists: Movies & TV for some background information. It will be interesting to see what happens to belly dancing with the Arab Spring and new governments.
 

chirel

New member
I think she's talking about maiden, mother and crone. The three aspects of the goddess and the way she associates these with different belly dance styles.

Today I stumbled on this: Kalbelia folk songs and dances of Rajasthan - YouTube and this kalbelia dance | gulabo | rajasthan dance | folk dance | UNESCO list of Cultural Heritage - YouTube . On the first video the narrator says that there is a connection with the moves and the cobra. On the second one the first or the second comment is about the kalbelia dance as a part of belly dance history. I will not take sides, as this is all too new to me. So what do you wiser ones say to this connecton? If kalbeia is a part of belly dance origins and if snakes have a connection to the dancem then there is a connection with snakes and belly dance. Although it's a very weak one. I for one see the connection with some moves, but as I said, I'm too new to belly dance to really judge. I suppose there's at least a direct connection with tribal style and kalbelia. It looks like it's been an inspiration.
 

Jane

New member
Chirel, check out the Pagan belly dance thread. It has a lot of discussion on the topic, it was pretty interesting.

Kalbelia dance is from Rajasthan in Northern India. The culture there is predominantly Hindu. India is in South Asia not North Africa or the Near and Middle East. Indian culture is unique regionally and I have never heard anyone Indian or of Indian heritage say belly dance is Indian. The Indian people I've spoken with have always said quite the opposite. Indian dances are very strict and codified. The music is also totally different.

Watch the kalbelia video again. Then watch this one:


and then this one:


and next:


and then watch the kalbelia video again. What's the same?
 

chirel

New member
OK, I stand corrected. But still I see similarities. But it's easy as there are only so many ways a body can move.

The similarities I see is more with saidi and ghawazee. I've been watching those a lot lately. And of course with tribal style, but that's a fusion anyway.

And I'll go over to the pagan thread, since none of this has anything to do with snaky arms.
 

Kashmir

New member
FOR ME, the tribal dance speaks about a special power, the healer of the community, the wise. the priestess.

FOR ME, belly dance speaks about another special power, the mother, the one who gives her heart in a motherly way, the giver of warmth in a home.

This is my personal opinion.
If that is how it resonates for you - well and good. But it has no connection to the reality of belly dance. Belly dance comes from the social and professional dances of the Middle East - nothing about healers or wise women. It is about celebration and entertainment. What's more, how do men - who also belly dance fit into this fantasy?

Even weirder why those two fantasies? Nothing I've seen of tribal says " the healer of the community, the wise. the priestess". If I had to stereotype it it would be the amazons - a band of self suffiicent women. Ditto "belly dance" - motherly or homely warmth is the last thing that would describe it.

If those fantasies help you enjoy your dance - no problem (I assume you are not sharing or teaching anyone this). But you are missing 90% of what is out there.
 
Top