Beautiful, Graceful, Powerful Arms?

[Suhad]

How does one develop them? It seems to be the one thing I really need to work on...I do drills, I concentrate on keeping lifted and graceful and as soon as my attention wavers there go the arms.

I have been drilling with veil a lot lately since it seemed to help the Egyptian dancers; I got a DVD by Katia that I am not very thrilled with so I don't use it much.

Any particular suggestions?

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Mmmmm, I think you are giving up to fast Suhad. To develop proficiency in anything, it takes practice with intent. I think we all have problems initially with arms movements. You may not like Katia's video(which I think is a good one), but Fahtiem has one also. It may be you are concentrating so hard on your arms that you're not picking up on the signals your body is telling you. Do your arms feel tired,are you left with stiff upper back and shoulders? You just may need to exercise your arms and develop muscle strength and flexibility. I always like to think of my hands and arms "floating" as I raise or lower them, and think about them as moving from my center of gravity,connected to my body and not just appendages. Keep practicing , I think you will get it.
Yasmine

 

[miss_shimmy]

when i practise my arms,i like to pretend i am in water,so there is a little resistance there.this helps me alott.
as yasmine says,its practise...practise...practise...


best of luck

 

[Babylonia]

yes, practice, practice practice

try lifting your arms with your back muscles instead of just your arms

pretending you're in water is an excellent idea

 

[Aniseteph]

...try lifting your arms with your back muscles instead of just your arms

This is what my teacher tells us, and letting our arms float like Yasmine said. Back muscles are much stronger than arm muscles, so with practice your arms cease to be aching appendages that you need to concentrate on, and become a graceful flowing extension of your movements. That's the theory anyway - I do hideous arm things with the best of 'em.

 

[Sara]

I know this prolly won't help, but if not it's still a nice thought.

I'd put on some really nice deserty music and pretend you're a snake slythering through a hot dry dusty desert. The sun's shining high in the sky, and you feel warm and dry. And then you pass the pryamids and sphinx and carry on down along the Nile.... etc. You get the idea.

Get's you in a snakey mood. Try not to think too much about you'r arms, but move them freely like you are that snake.

 

[Suhad]

try lifting your arms with your back muscles instead of just your arms

That is my problem...tonight in class I actually had to go over to my instructor and feel her arms to see exactly WHICH muscles she was engaging in order to actually understand what I was doing vs. what she was doing. The lightbulb finally went on....at least now I know what to practice!

Five years after my first bellydance lesson this month and I finally understand the whole arms/posture connection!

Oy. I'm so retarded sometimes.

Thanks to you all for your suggestions, I'll also incorporate the visualizations into my practice. If I know my brain, I'll start dreaming about graceful arms and that's how it will get into my waking arms.

 

[Madeline]

I know this prolly won't help, but if not it's still a nice thought.

I'd put on some really nice deserty music and pretend you're a snake slythering through a hot dry dusty desert. The sun's shining high in the sky, and you feel warm and dry. And then you pass the pryamids and sphinx and carry on down along the Nile.... etc. You get the idea.

Get's you in a snakey mood. Try not to think too much about you'r arms, but move them freely like you are that snake.

That’s exactly what I was going to say! :lol:

 

[Aisha Azar]

Arms

Dear Suhad,
For now, don't worry about doing fancy things with your arms and hands.
Concentrate instead on pretending that you are holding a plum between your thumb and middle finger, and relax at the wrist so that your palm is facing the floor. (Your palm can occasionally face the wall, the celing, etc, but with your arms extended, should face the floor. turn your elbows so that they are behind you instead of hanging down, and keep them softly flexed, but not deeply bent. Relax the shoulders and let your arms be about breast high instead of even with the shoulders. From this basic stance, you should be able to move your arms anywhere with grace. Move as if you are savoring the feeling instead of rushing through it. I tell my students to prentend they are moving through jello. Consider too, using your arms as frames for movenets most of the time, so that they are not too busy to let the audience focus on the beauty of your body movements.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Salome]

While it's not so practical for framing and changing arm positions, here's a little prop that can initially help with maintaining the frame Aisha described. Take a length of cord/ribbon/soft rope. Hold each end with the middle finger and thumb. Hold the rope behind the body/across the back and extend your arms until you are at waist or breast level. Cut the cord so you have exactly that length. Then you can do your dance practice while keeping the cord stretched tight, paying attention to not letting the cord come forward or back but right across the back. Keeping soft arms but maintaining energy in them, relaxed shoulders etc. I think it can be a helpful exercise if a person has trouble with "chicken", "robbery victim" or droopy arms, or if you tend to let the arms migrate to far back or forward.

 

[Suhad]

Oooh, Salome, that's a great idea! And Aisha I really appreciate your input. I'm not ever going to be an authentic Egyptian style dancer but I still want to be good at what I do, and to present a professional picture.

My problem is that I tend to carry a LOT of tension in my shoulders which of course projects a picture of stress. I have worked on posture to no end, and I still seem to need to stand up even straighter than I do in order to get the proper 'energy but without tension' sort of look. I thought veil might help with that so I've been working a lot with it lately, but the rope idea is really fantastic since it won't get in the way like the veil sometimes does.

This is what was on my mind when I posted to Chryssanthi about knowing how much effort it takes to look effortless...even when I feel completely relaxed (as relaxed as one can be while dancing that is) I still tend to project that tension due to my shoulders.

 

[Kharmine]

I recommend a good professional massage to get that tension out of your shoulders -- and have a look at how you're sitting, sleeping, carrying schoolbooks or grocery bags, etc.

We tend to get into certain positions that may be putting strain on us without realizing it. Try changing 'em to see if that helps.

 

[Shanazel]

I find that people tend to tense up when they are learning something hard, and have actually watched students' shoulders creep up toward their ears because they are concentrating so hard.

I tell them to go ahead and pull their shoulders up as hard and tight toward their ears as they can. That done, I tell them to totally relax and let their shoulders plummet. Bam. The bottom of the plummet is where the shoulders belong. I have to give Madame Kim credit for this one- I've been using it ever since I took Beginning Ballet from her about a zillion years ago.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Arms, etc.

Dear Group,
And, Shanazel's suggestion is also used in learning relaxation techniques in general. I also found that this tensing and relaxing technique, when used lying down and all over the body, as I was taught years ago, is a great way to find out just where your muscles are in order to get more body awareness and control.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[charity]

How does one develop them? It seems to be the one thing I really need to work on...I do drills, I concentrate on keeping lifted and graceful and as soon as my attention wavers there go the arms.

I have been drilling with veil a lot lately since it seemed to help the Egyptian dancers; I got a DVD by Katia that I am not very thrilled with so I don't use it much.

Any particular suggestions?

hey suhad i have come some way with my arms. i learned tension is resistance to momentum.

this is incredibly hard to articulate. below is a terrible attempt to break down the move.

while practicing allow the shoulder roll to be the push, originating from the back muscles. keep arms relaxed. roll shoulder forward and lift up to ear, (1/2 of a shoulder roll) lift elbow, as if attached to a string, forearm is completely relaxed and below elbow, maintain the shoulder roll in up position, dont let it go until your in the position to finish the arm move. when elbow becomes shoulder height. finish your shoulder roll by allowing shoulder to roll back and then drop, releasing all tension. allow a relaxed forearm to follow the wrist as you lift it in line with the shoulder. the wrist movement will rotate your elbow to the point where its no longer up but pointing to the rear now. once all is in line, gently roll knuckles up so the hand is higher than the wrist.

shoulder, elbow, wrist, knuckles. if you are on the shoulder, everything is relaxed. so shoulder up, elbow, wrist, knuckles are below it. shoulder to elbow, wrist and knuckles are below shoulder and knuckles. shoulder to elbow to wrist, knuckles remain below wrist. shoulder to elbow to wrist to knuckles, all things are in line.

the shoulder roll i refer to is a subtle movement. soft, and as you relax more into the move, you can barely tell its a shoulder roll at all.

i use the ocean to understand the feeling i'm going for in my arms. the bobbing movement of a wave through a relaxed medium. but to get this feel in practice i imagine a bead of water on my shoulder. and i want to gently roll it down my arm and off my middle finger into a cup.

there are helpful ballet moves to practice but i do not know the names of them and could not begin to explain. i hope you dont just read this but try it.

verbally i may not have captured the movement accurately or at all. but stay with it, just relax. eliminate tension and the movement will be fluid.

 

[kiewiet]

That is a fantastic suggestion Salome!
I tried it and it has definitely helped me to understand what I am actually doing. Thank You!

I got back to class today after 8 weeks off due to a knee injury and my left arm doe not belong to my body any more - someone else must be controlling it :lol:
It kept going in the wrong direction!!! At least I didnt droop so much