Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 78
  1. #31
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Rocky Mountains USA
    Posts
    15,402
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Well, Jesus Martinez thinks he's God's gift to women, but I've never heard him claim to be the son of God though his mother thinks he can walk on water.

    Okay. Thread hijack really over now.
    "Well, now that we have seen each other," said the unicorn " if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you."

  2. #32
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sussex, England
    Posts
    4,856
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    also assure them that feeling clumsy and confused at the start is normal (I hope that's right as that's the way I felt when I started).
    Sounds normal to me! Nothing wrong with looking/ feeling like a total klutz when you are trying something brand new, and no point turning yourself into a frustrated wreck because you can't "master" it. Bodies can be slower to catch on than brains would like. It takes time and THAT'S OK.

  3. #33
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,024
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    Great point too, about good teachers seeing the education of a student as a worthy goal. She'd never have a more passionate student than me. I would have done my best to make her proud. and we could have had some fun in the process. That's how it's supposed to work, right? Instead it's been a bit of an ordeal, for me, anyway.
    Are you for real? Are you really passionate about being a student? I don't believe you are.

    It sounds to me like you are mostly passionate about punishing this teacher because you didn't absorb as much as you wanted to from her classes. Also, you're categorizing ALL the other possible students as "less passionate" than you (or at least, not any "more passionate" than you). I think most teachers would feel safer without your kind of passion in their classroom.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    Darshiva, I really appreciate your advice. You're right. After watching my words repeatedly bounce off this woman, it seems unlikely that she'll read my letter, much less act on it. I'll give her a copy, but you cemented my resolve to communicate with the director, and I'll hit all the points you listed. I especially like the word "unprofessional" and will sprinkle it throughout.
    So, you're going to complain to this teacher's manager and focus on calling her names. I'm sure that will be very helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    Does anyone know the legalities of advertising fitness benefits without being certified in the US?
    Now we're talking LEGALITIES. What, are you going to SUE her because you didn't improve your aerobic capacity, gain muscle mass, or lose weight? Or are you going to sue her because she doesn't have a silly certification?

    You know what is probably not legal? Publishing her choreography here without her permission. Even if it is legal, it is her intellectual property, and posting it to the internet is not nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    That's exactly how I feel. I've been studying for a long time, and if there's one thing I've figured out, it's how to learn, and brains can only retain so much before learning stops.
    Well, perhaps you're good with geography, mathematics, or grammar. But have you ever considered that perhaps you're just naturally not good at learning physical movements and/or choreography? You could overcome this by applying your much-vaunted passion to practicing. But your brain might not be as capable as your classmates' brains when it comes to physical coordination and movement memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    Wow, do you know her? I never thought about it from that angle, but she does have a troupe of older women, and I can't imagine she'd let herself be outshone by any of them.
    That's a rather personal remark about someone whom you supposedly only have a professional interest in.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    Now I feel like a wimp for not wanting to drive 20 minutes to find a better teacher.
    If you were an amazingly gifted dancer, you might still have to drive 20 minutes or more to take classes from a teacher who teaches what you need to learn. You're not a wimp. You're just less passionate about finding the right teacher, than you are about teaching the teacher who isn't a good fit for you a LESSON. So, not a wimp. More like a bully.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    I want confirmation from professionals that the teacher phoned it in. That she didn't try hard enough to teach, and that she failed, at least in my case, to help a beginning (clearly terrified) student to learn to belly dance, which was what she was paid pretty well to do.
    So, you want a professional belly dancer/teacher to confirm something they didn't see or hear. You want them to pronounce judgment on how hard she worked. I'm sure you'll find someone to say what you want, but it's the internet - you can find someone who will say ANYTHING.

    I'm not a professional dancer, but I do have to say that if there was a failure, you failed *together* with your teacher. It's not a teacher's job to ensure that every student achieves a certain level of competence. Part of that job is the responsibility of the individual student. If a student is not experienced in dance, maybe she should choose to begin her classes at the beginning of the school year, when the class will have more beginner students. Also, you may have been self-conscious and uncomfortable, but I doubt you were "terrified". You found the wherewithal to speak directly to your teacher...that's not the act of someone who is easily intimidated.

    And how the heck do you know how much your teacher is paid? You may know what your husband paid to community ed, but that's not the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    That's fair.
    I suspect your definition of fair is much different from mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    It seemed like the class was designed for her enjoyment. Is that okay? Maybe so. She's my age, maybe she feels like she's paid her dues, and she just wants to have fun.
    I'm quite sure that she designed a class she thought was enjoyable as well as educational. I'm also sure the she designed the class for her average student...not her most-advanced one, and not the least-advanced one.

    It seems like you are unhappy that she's your age and having so much fun...why does it matter how old she is?

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    And maybe we just weren't a good fit. I'm an artist, and I gravitate more toward funky, and she seemed pretty traditional. And that's okay. It's like making friends. It's hard to find a good fit between friends. But I looked, and my husband looked, and she's the only teacher in town, so I think she has a certain responsibility to deliver what she advertised.
    I thought you thought she was "unprofessional"...now the two of you just
    "maybe weren't a good fit. Why does it matter whether she is traditional or not? What does friendship...or being the only teacher in town...have to do with her general teaching ability and professionalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    Here's the ad for the beginner class:

    Beginner: 6:00—7:00 p.m.
    Learn basic moves and steps while toning muscles and increasing
    flexibility. "SPRING" into shape and get ready for summer
    swimwear! Learn the ancient art of Oriental Belly Dance for fun,
    fitness and femininity. A good dance form for all ages and bodies.
    *Please bring ballet slippers or go barefoot.

    Here's the intermediate:
    Intermediate: 7:15—8:15 p.m.
    This faster pace class will focus on different combinations using
    more advanced moves and steps ending with a professional
    choreographed dance.
    *Pre-requisite: Must have 1 year of belly
    dance experience.
    Well, the beginner class description says that basic moves will be taught, and you'll get some exercise. It says the class will be fun, and that bellydance is good for all ages and physiques. The description is not really all that detailed; it's mainly marketing talk and that's OK.

    The intermediate class description says that they will run at a faster pace, do a "professional" choreographed dance, and that enrollees must have more than a year of experience. This implies that dancers with 10, 11, 12 months of experience are still hanging out in the beginner class, which is valuable information. It also implies that any choreographies done by the beginners class would not be professional level.

    Nowhere did the class promise instruction tailored to individual students' special needs at the expense of coursework that may better benefit the rest of the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    I'm planning to quit the last three classes since she'll only be teaching choreography, but I want to stop by and give her a letter saying why, and I may send a copy to the director of the rec center.
    Why give anyone a letter? Why demand your husband's money back? You already took more than half of the classes. Surely you learned SOMETHING during those weeks. You've found that you don't like the classes...that's a valuable thing to know.

    Maybe you don't really like dancing. Maybe you don't like choreographies. Or maybe you don't like dancing with people who are better dancers than you are, or who happen to be less "artistic" and "funky" than you consider yourself to be. But the fact that *you* don't like it, the fact that *you* found the experience frustrating, doesn't mean that the teacher is doing things wrong.

    It means that you need a better fit. It's easier to change your own approach to the dance, or go out find a new teacher, than to change any given teacher's style to perfectly suit you.

    If you really cared about improving in the dance, you'd be asking your teacher for references ("I need a class with more repetition/drilling of the basics, and ideally less choreography - do you teach such a class or can you refer me to another teacher's class?") rather than going after her job.

  4. #34
    Moderator Farasha Hanem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    In the heartland of the USA
    Posts
    4,805
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Perhaps referring to this sticky will help:

    http://bellydanceforums.net/instruct...g-teacher.html

  5. #35
    V.I.P. Tarik Sultan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Jersey City, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,366
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hey sweetie:
    I haven't the time to read everyone's replies, but I would just ask this, why is it neccessary that you perform so soon? I think this is putting too much pressure on yourself. Learn at your pace and then at some point in the future if and when you are ready and willing, then do it. Just relax. You'll be fine.

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    609
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I hadn't planned to respond but as a school teacher there are some things that need to be hit upon in this discussion.
    1. A person needs to be exposed to the material 28 times in 3 weeks. This means that you may have lessons once a week but to really learn the material, you need to practice it a bit every day for 3 weeks.
    2. The parts have to be put together so you can see the relationship, this means the choreography does that.
    3. Many times, you need to see how the parts fit together differently for each situation. Other choreographies such as ones you make with a few steps or ones your teacher designs. A choreography does not have to use a bunch of different steps. I practiced 6 combinations tonight to a piece of music. 6 that were actually 16 beats each. The basic steps of each combo were almost the same with a few differences.
    4. When I started belly dance, the owner of the studio had tapes of the various routines to buy so you could learn the choreography. I looked around and found other tapes I could buy to practice the basics by. (this was before you tube and DVD's. There was a limited selection of materials available.)
    5. the bottom line in learning, is that you have to take responsibility for doing the actual learning.

  7. #37
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Rocky Mountains USA
    Posts
    15,402
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan View Post
    Hey sweetie:
    I haven't the time to read everyone's replies, but I would just ask this, why is it neccessary that you perform so soon? I think this is putting too much pressure on yourself. Learn at your pace and then at some point in the future if and when you are ready and willing, then do it. Just relax. You'll be fine.

    Better go back and read a few more posts, Tarik. You're missing a point or two.
    "Well, now that we have seen each other," said the unicorn " if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you."

  8. #38
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,024
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    My response might have been a bit harsh, but I do think the issues I addressed were on-point. However...

    I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about how less-kinesthetically-talented and/or less-experienced dancers CAN LEARN BELLYDANCE.

    This is the first thing I always say when talking to anyone considering taking classes:

    1. Not every teacher is right for every student. If you take one or two full courses from a teacher, and you are not progressing, you probably will learn better from another teacher. It doesn't mean that the first teacher is a bad teacher, it just means that her teaching style is not right for where you are right now. You can still learn to dance! Just try another teacher.

    more tips:

    2. Practice as much as possible. This means taking 1-5 minutes throughout the day to work on moves. I would practice in the bathroom mirror at work...when I was in a grocery aisle by myself...while in the car at stoplights. Do the moves you can't do well yet, and your favorite, fun moves too.

    3. Watch a lot of bellydancing (and other kinds of dancing). Decide what YOU like, and try to figure out why.

    4. Videos are great tools, but they are all different. You might buy several videos before you find one that helps you improve your dancing. Videos are also a good tool if you have a bad kinesthetic memory.
    Hint: if you mount a mirror on the wall opposite your TV, you can still see the screen as you turn. I have also used glass-framed pictures as mirrors for that purpose.

    5. If you have a REALLY BAD kinesthetic memory, you might not be able to remember movements or combinations long enough to practice them at home. Bring a notepad and pen to class so you can do one or two moves immediately after class, and then write down the details so your words can help you remember the movement. Where are your hands, where are your feet? Is there a count to it? Your teacher might be available to answer questions at this point. Tell her that you have a bad memory, and that you need to write down all the details so you can practice it right at home. Don't expect more than a minute or two of your teacher's time...some days, she may not even be able to do that.
    So now you have notes for only one or two moves, and the teacher taught five or six that day? So what? You have to learn at YOUR pace, not the class's pace. Learn those moves really well over the week, and next week you will be ready to learn something else.

    Maybe you're used to learning very quickly at school and/or on the job. Dance is DIFFERENT. That's why it's so exciting, and that's also why it's so hard for some people.

    The way to learn dance is to focus on YOU learning the dance. What little thing can you do next that might help? Do that thing, then look for the next thing. Don't get distracted by other students that learn faster, or a teacher that happens to be less than perfect (just like the rest of us mortals). Just do the next little thing, and if you come to a roadblock in your planned path, choose another little thing to try. Blaze your own trail!

  9. #39
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,024
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Seriously, in art form after art form, it's often the less-gifted students that go the furthest. They take it seriously. They work hard. They spend a lot of time working on their art, and they try different things. They question themselves. They seek out good teachers and advisors. They commit themselves completely to their work, and it shows.

    I've seen lots of singers, dancers, artists who I thought were mediocre, or even pretty bad, become phenomenal.

    The funny thing about these artists and performers is that they are deeply into what they're doing. They are appreciative, yet not obsessed, with what other people are doing. They're interested in creating and enjoying art, not talking smack or railing against how other people create art.

    They're my biggest role models.

  10. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by da Sage View Post
    Seriously, in art form after art form, it's often the less-gifted students that go the furthest. They take it seriously. They work hard. They spend a lot of time working on their art, and they try different things. They question themselves. They seek out good teachers and advisors. They commit themselves completely to their work, and it shows.

    I've seen lots of singers, dancers, artists who I thought were mediocre, or even pretty bad, become phenomenal.

    The funny thing about these artists and performers is that they are deeply into what they're doing. They are appreciative, yet not obsessed, with what other people are doing. They're interested in creating and enjoying art, not talking smack or railing against how other people create art.

    They're my biggest role models.
    Beautifully written de Sage and very inspiring. Thank you!

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •