Issues with my teacher?

[Habiba]

I really liked the video and thought it very sweet. It showcases varying levels and the students/performers look like they are having a wonderful time. I loved the pink costumes

As I said before, use this time to find a new teacher you resonate with. I understand your predicament in that it's not easy to find a teacher nearby, but where there's a will.... ;-) And really, a class, the teacher, the syllabus and even the students all play a part in how you feel and whether it's your cup of tea. I went to a school which was terribly cliquey (which I will one day write more about) but rather than complain, I got off my proverbial and looked elsewhere, even when I thought the search was futile and voila, I found a wonderful teacher who taught the exact style I was looking for.

So my advice is to let go and move forward. You'll eventually find the teacher who you are meant to find.

 

[Daimona]

If she was the only teacher in town and I wanted to pursue my bd studies (with or without her), I wouldn't write that letter because you'll never know how she will react on it. Sometimes it could be useful to have a good and polite tone with your present 'enemy', as things could change in the future and she may be a useful resource for you in the future.

Forget about the choreography and concentrate on some of the elements in it, such as specific moves and/or combinations. Choreographies may not be the right thing for you right now, but learning how moves are combined to go with the music will still be valuable for you on your future dance path even if you prefer drills at the moment.

As you are still early on your dance path, learning from youtube and videos are ok, but you really need feedback on your technique to be sure you won't get youself bad habits. If you cannot find anyone else offering live teaching in town or nearby, or you will not work with the current teacher at the moment, try online tuitition such as private skype lessons with someone else. There are more and more dancers offering this now.

ETA: (Didn't we have a thread about skype lesson providers previously?)

 

[BigJim]

As I've been reading this topic I can't help but think of a thread I started a while ago on " the 8 most important lessons?". When a person decides to take up belly dancing the starting experience can be crucial in whether the person continues or not.

Shanazel is on the money by pointing out the teachers side as it can be a difficult task trying to keep everyone satisfied. With the majority of the class at a more advanced level the instructor has to go with more advanced concepts for their sake.

It looks like there are unsolvable issues that have brewed up between instructor and student in this case.Maybe it can be used as a learning tool.

A hint for instructors might be to talk with the Newbie before the start of the session and explain to them that there are more advanced students and that it might seem very complex at the start. Give them one or two basic moves to focus and work on each week that they can practise at home. Encourage them to try and keep up as best as they can through the majority of the class time but also assure them that feeling clumsy and confused at the start is normal (I hope that's right as that's the way I felt when I started).

At the end of class just ask how they made out and again assure them that with practise it'll all start to fall into place. Just a small amount of encouragement can go along way.

I'm finding out that there is a lifetime of learning that goes with bellydance and that there can be a lifetime of enjoyment from it. Shake off this first experience and find a different class or start to learn at home by yourself.

P.S. I too have had the benefit of a Shanazel lecture. She means well and is trying to help you (and others who are reading this) become more self reliant.

 

[Creaky Old Dancer]

Hi Starling, I was wondering, how do the other students feel about her, and have they taken this beginner course with her more than once? If so - it isn't quite a beginner class, but maybe you could speak with one of them about practicing together sometime or asking them about one particuliar partof thte choreo before class or after? Of course if the class is really cliquey, then perhaps it isn't a good fit for you - also does the teacher teach at other venues and does she do privates, sometimes one or two private lessons can make a real difference - one in both getting to know each other. Just a couple of thoughts from someone who has been the absolute newbie in a beginner class that wasn't really one (as some of the ladies have taken the same beginner course for years) - as there are different levels of beginner class. If you do have a private lesson have in mind a specific idea of what you want to practice. Hope this helps. It's also possible that she is just bored with teaching or isn't a good teacher. which sometimes unfortunately happens. Creaks
ps one other thing, just sort of listen and observe how she interacts with the other students and how they interact with her, things they say before class or when leaving the class, you can learn a lot by these observations

 

[Dunyah]

I've been following this thread with some interest, as I am a teacher at a rec center. I just wanted to point out that many teachers do prepare their classes for student recitals at the end of the year, before summer break. Perhaps this is the situation you have found yourself in?

Many teachers (myself included) videotape class choreography or combinations and post them to a private YouTube channel so students can access them outside of class. Smart phones with video cameras make this really easy to do. If you have a smart phone, perhaps she would let you videotape a few drills or basic movements for your own personal reference as a study aide.

Anyway, hope you don't give up on the dance just yet. You say you are older, out of shape and have always felt disconnected from your physicality, so you have to be very patient and give yourself time to absorb the basics. I understand your frustration with a choreography class. I hope you will try speaking directly to the teacher before or after class rather than writing a negative letter to the rec center. I'm not sure that a letter will improve her teaching or your dancing.

Belly dance is a small community, even on-line, I find it's best to avoid drama and creating hard feelings, if at all possible. You have legitimate concerns that should be addressed with the teacher. The rec center folks probably don't know much about teaching a belly dance class. Good luck.

 

[Shanazel]

I did indeed take my outline and a pencil, but it'll be a while before I can learn dance steps and run to the back of the room to write and back to dance, especially as often as she changed and re-changed the steps…

A hint: you don’t write down every change at the time the change is made. After class, you grab your notes and write down the final steps in a way you can understand them. This is where you grab the teacher or a savvy student if necessary and say, “Okay, do I understand this correctly?”

My teacher covered each step for three to five minutes, period, and for whatever reason, I'd get home all excited to practice, and I'd have no memory of what we did in class… I kept telling her I couldn’t possibly learn to dance in one hour a week, so every week I asked if she'd thought of a way I could practice between classes. It didn't have to be a DVD or Youtube. As I said, I'm practically a professional learner.

To quote my high school history professor (a brilliant man): "Do you wish to be fed facts like a baby bird is fed grubs or are you willing to incur discomfort in order to learn?"

How did you practice between classes when you were getting your degrees? I always reviewed the material from class and if I was particularly interested I did independent research. (The most important thing I learned through higher education was how to look stuff up.) Write down the name of the step and see if you can find it online (I couldn’t find harem waltz but found camel, hip lift, and maya easily). You can take notes on the movements in words you can relate to (e.g. weight on left leg, right leg bent in front of body with ball of foot on floor and heel raised. Lift right hip.) If you have a cell phone that allows you to take videos, ask permission to record the movements.

P.S. I too have had the benefit of a Shanazel lecture. She means well and is trying to help you (and others who are reading this) become more self reliant.

Well, bless your heart and your generous nature, Big Jim. Consider yourself hugged. J

 

[Kashmir]

I did indeed take my outline and a pencil, but it'll be a while before I can learn dance steps and run to the back of the room to write and back to dance, especially as often as she changed and re-changed the steps.

The pen and paper is for after you have the combinations in your body. That is, the order of the combinations - but you need to be able to do them first. Seriously, once a year I attend a weeklong with 8-14 different choreographies. If I stopped and tried taking notes at the start I'd never get any of them. Instead I concentrate on moving. Then if I really like something I'll list the combinations and any special notes in the break - and never before I can do each one.

That's the point I was trying to make with her. I kept telling her I couldn’t possibly learn to dance in one hour a week, so every week I asked if she'd thought of a way I could practice between classes. It didn't have to be a DVD or Youtube. As I said, I'm practically a professional learner. She could have recommended a book describing the specific steps we were learning, or she could have told me the style she teaches so I could look it up myself. As you said, harem waltz isn't in your vocabulary, and I've learned that people call different belly dance steps by different names and they all teach steps a little differently. And that was the problem I ran into when I tried to learn on Youtube.

Belly dance doesn't really work that way - and you can end up doing more damage than good (using a book or YouTube). At this stage of your learning stick to what your teacher is teaching. First you need to learn the individual moves - the words. Go home an practice single words (a hip rock , a hip drop, a shoulder shimmy). Make sure you are doing each correctly. Once you can form words go for the phrases. The choreography is a paragraph - leave it for the moment.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Starling, I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before! :doh: :wall: Do you have a cam corder (or even a digital camera that takes video)? If you do, and if your teacher doesn't object to it, in addition to your notes, record your class so that you can take it home and practice. That way, you can remember what you did in class, what your teacher's instructions were, and you would (hopefully) have any changes recorded for you to remember. Recording yourself when you practice at home is helpful, too, especially since usually at home, we don't have access to nice studio mirrors.

Just one thing: don't upload your class videos on YouTube. The other ladies in your class might not appreciate it, plus rival troupes (at least the ones without a conscience) might steal your teacher's/troupe's ideas or moves for any choreo y'all are working on.

How did you practice between classes when you were getting your degrees? I always reviewed the material from class and if I was particularly interested I did independent research. (The most important thing I learned through higher education was how to look stuff up.) Write down the name of the step and see if you can find it online (I couldn’t find harem waltz but found camel, hip lift, and maya easily).

Some moves do have weird names. Some names are common for the same moves, some may have a certain name, but end up being a different move entirely. @_____@ And then, some teachers or classes just get downright creative when we don't know what else to call something. For instance, in one of our dances, we have a combo of moves that are called thus accordingly: "Giving...I'm cute...Look at my tush...Jesus."

Don't ask...

Oh, shoot, I just read Shanazel's suggestion to use your phone camera...must learn to read all replies, must learn to read all replies! :doh:

 

[Shanazel]

You write something like that, then add "don't ask." Right. As if. I am officially asking, Farasha. If you don't tell me I am liable to dream about Jesus looking at cute tushes. You are talking about Jesus Martinez down the street, right? And all this time I thought he was a boob man.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Ummmmm, nope, we're talking about the Son of God here! xD

I'm not good at explaining moves via typing, but I'll try: The "giving" is where we extend our arms to the right corner, "I'm cute," we do a quarter turn (?) to the left corner, you hold your left hand to your cheek and extend your right arm to said corner, then you turn again one-quarter turn to the next corner counter-clockwise, stick out your right hip while holding the right hand to your cheek and extending the left arm ("Look at my tush"), then you finish by facing the back wall in a T or cross formation ("Jesus").

Of course, the last two, "Look at my tush, Jesus," could be taken two ways:

"Look at my tush, Jesus" (I have a cute tush! )

OR

"Look at my tush...JESUS!!!" @______@;;;

xD

Sorry Starling, thread hijack over! ^^;;;

 

[Shanazel]

Well, Jesus Martinez thinks he's God's gift to women, but I've never heard him claim to be the son of God though his mother thinks he can walk on water.

Okay. Thread hijack really over now.

 

[Aniseteph]

also assure them that feeling clumsy and confused at the start is normal (I hope that's right as that's the way I felt when I started).

Sounds normal to me! Nothing wrong with looking/ feeling like a total klutz when you are trying something brand new, and no point turning yourself into a frustrated wreck because you can't "master" it. Bodies can be slower to catch on than brains would like. It takes time and THAT'S OK.

 

[da Sage]

Great point too, about good teachers seeing the education of a student as a worthy goal. She'd never have a more passionate student than me. I would have done my best to make her proud. and we could have had some fun in the process. That's how it's supposed to work, right? Instead it's been a bit of an ordeal, for me, anyway.

Are you for real? Are you really passionate about being a student? I don't believe you are.

It sounds to me like you are mostly passionate about punishing this teacher because you didn't absorb as much as you wanted to from her classes. Also, you're categorizing ALL the other possible students as "less passionate" than you (or at least, not any "more passionate" than you). I think most teachers would feel safer without your kind of passion in their classroom.

Darshiva, I really appreciate your advice. You're right. After watching my words repeatedly bounce off this woman, it seems unlikely that she'll read my letter, much less act on it. I'll give her a copy, but you cemented my resolve to communicate with the director, and I'll hit all the points you listed. I especially like the word "unprofessional" and will sprinkle it throughout.

So, you're going to complain to this teacher's manager and focus on calling her names. I'm sure that will be very helpful.

Does anyone know the legalities of advertising fitness benefits without being certified in the US?

Now we're talking LEGALITIES. What, are you going to SUE her because you didn't improve your aerobic capacity, gain muscle mass, or lose weight? Or are you going to sue her because she doesn't have a silly certification?

You know what is probably not legal? Publishing her choreography here without her permission. Even if it is legal, it is her intellectual property, and posting it to the internet is not nice.

That's exactly how I feel. I've been studying for a long time, and if there's one thing I've figured out, it's how to learn, and brains can only retain so much before learning stops.

Well, perhaps you're good with geography, mathematics, or grammar. But have you ever considered that perhaps you're just naturally not good at learning physical movements and/or choreography? You could overcome this by applying your much-vaunted passion to practicing. But your brain might not be as capable as your classmates' brains when it comes to physical coordination and movement memory.

Wow, do you know her? I never thought about it from that angle, but she does have a troupe of older women, and I can't imagine she'd let herself be outshone by any of them.

That's a rather personal remark about someone whom you supposedly only have a professional interest in.

Now I feel like a wimp for not wanting to drive 20 minutes to find a better teacher.

If you were an amazingly gifted dancer, you might still have to drive 20 minutes or more to take classes from a teacher who teaches what you need to learn. You're not a wimp. You're just less passionate about finding the right teacher, than you are about teaching the teacher who isn't a good fit for you a LESSON. So, not a wimp. More like a bully.

I want confirmation from professionals that the teacher phoned it in. That she didn't try hard enough to teach, and that she failed, at least in my case, to help a beginning (clearly terrified) student to learn to belly dance, which was what she was paid pretty well to do.

So, you want a professional belly dancer/teacher to confirm something they didn't see or hear. You want them to pronounce judgment on how hard she worked. I'm sure you'll find someone to say what you want, but it's the internet - you can find someone who will say ANYTHING.

I'm not a professional dancer, but I do have to say that if there was a failure, you failed *together* with your teacher. It's not a teacher's job to ensure that every student achieves a certain level of competence. Part of that job is the responsibility of the individual student. If a student is not experienced in dance, maybe she should choose to begin her classes at the beginning of the school year, when the class will have more beginner students. Also, you may have been self-conscious and uncomfortable, but I doubt you were "terrified". You found the wherewithal to speak directly to your teacher...that's not the act of someone who is easily intimidated.

And how the heck do you know how much your teacher is paid? You may know what your husband paid to community ed, but that's not the same thing.

That's fair.

I suspect your definition of fair is much different from mine.

It seemed like the class was designed for her enjoyment. Is that okay? Maybe so. She's my age, maybe she feels like she's paid her dues, and she just wants to have fun.

I'm quite sure that she designed a class she thought was enjoyable as well as educational. I'm also sure the she designed the class for her average student...not her most-advanced one, and not the least-advanced one.

It seems like you are unhappy that she's your age and having so much fun...why does it matter how old she is?

And maybe we just weren't a good fit. I'm an artist, and I gravitate more toward funky, and she seemed pretty traditional. And that's okay. It's like making friends. It's hard to find a good fit between friends. But I looked, and my husband looked, and she's the only teacher in town, so I think she has a certain responsibility to deliver what she advertised.

I thought you thought she was "unprofessional"...now the two of you just
"maybe weren't a good fit. Why does it matter whether she is traditional or not? What does friendship...or being the only teacher in town...have to do with her general teaching ability and professionalism?

Here's the ad for the beginner class:

Beginner: 6:00—7:00 p.m.
Learn basic moves and steps while toning muscles and increasing
flexibility. "SPRING" into shape and get ready for summer
swimwear! Learn the ancient art of Oriental Belly Dance for fun,
fitness and femininity. A good dance form for all ages and bodies.
*Please bring ballet slippers or go barefoot.

Here's the intermediate:
Intermediate: 7:15—8:15 p.m.
This faster pace class will focus on different combinations using
more advanced moves and steps ending with a professional
choreographed dance.
*Pre-requisite: Must have 1 year of belly
dance experience.

Well, the beginner class description says that basic moves will be taught, and you'll get some exercise. It says the class will be fun, and that bellydance is good for all ages and physiques. The description is not really all that detailed; it's mainly marketing talk and that's OK.

The intermediate class description says that they will run at a faster pace, do a "professional" choreographed dance, and that enrollees must have more than a year of experience. This implies that dancers with 10, 11, 12 months of experience are still hanging out in the beginner class, which is valuable information. It also implies that any choreographies done by the beginners class would not be professional level.

Nowhere did the class promise instruction tailored to individual students' special needs at the expense of coursework that may better benefit the rest of the class.

I'm planning to quit the last three classes since she'll only be teaching choreography, but I want to stop by and give her a letter saying why, and I may send a copy to the director of the rec center.

Why give anyone a letter? Why demand your husband's money back? You already took more than half of the classes. Surely you learned SOMETHING during those weeks. You've found that you don't like the classes...that's a valuable thing to know.

Maybe you don't really like dancing. Maybe you don't like choreographies. Or maybe you don't like dancing with people who are better dancers than you are, or who happen to be less "artistic" and "funky" than you consider yourself to be. But the fact that *you* don't like it, the fact that *you* found the experience frustrating, doesn't mean that the teacher is doing things wrong.

It means that you need a better fit. It's easier to change your own approach to the dance, or go out find a new teacher, than to change any given teacher's style to perfectly suit you.

If you really cared about improving in the dance, you'd be asking your teacher for references ("I need a class with more repetition/drilling of the basics, and ideally less choreography - do you teach such a class or can you refer me to another teacher's class?") rather than going after her job.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Perhaps referring to this sticky will help:

http://bellydanceforums.net/instructors-students/10558-finding-teacher.html

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Hey sweetie:
I haven't the time to read everyone's replies, but I would just ask this, why is it neccessary that you perform so soon? I think this is putting too much pressure on yourself. Learn at your pace and then at some point in the future if and when you are ready and willing, then do it. Just relax. You'll be fine.

 

[teela]

I hadn't planned to respond but as a school teacher there are some things that need to be hit upon in this discussion.
1. A person needs to be exposed to the material 28 times in 3 weeks. This means that you may have lessons once a week but to really learn the material, you need to practice it a bit every day for 3 weeks.
2. The parts have to be put together so you can see the relationship, this means the choreography does that.
3. Many times, you need to see how the parts fit together differently for each situation. Other choreographies such as ones you make with a few steps or ones your teacher designs. A choreography does not have to use a bunch of different steps. I practiced 6 combinations tonight to a piece of music. 6 that were actually 16 beats each. The basic steps of each combo were almost the same with a few differences.
4. When I started belly dance, the owner of the studio had tapes of the various routines to buy so you could learn the choreography. I looked around and found other tapes I could buy to practice the basics by. (this was before you tube and DVD's. There was a limited selection of materials available.)
5. the bottom line in learning, is that you have to take responsibility for doing the actual learning.

 

[Shanazel]

Hey sweetie:
I haven't the time to read everyone's replies, but I would just ask this, why is it neccessary that you perform so soon? I think this is putting too much pressure on yourself. Learn at your pace and then at some point in the future if and when you are ready and willing, then do it. Just relax. You'll be fine.

Better go back and read a few more posts, Tarik. You're missing a point or two.

 

[da Sage]

My response might have been a bit harsh, but I do think the issues I addressed were on-point. However...

I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about how less-kinesthetically-talented and/or less-experienced dancers CAN LEARN BELLYDANCE.

This is the first thing I always say when talking to anyone considering taking classes:

1. Not every teacher is right for every student. If you take one or two full courses from a teacher, and you are not progressing, you probably will learn better from another teacher. It doesn't mean that the first teacher is a bad teacher, it just means that her teaching style is not right for where you are right now. You can still learn to dance! Just try another teacher.

more tips:

2. Practice as much as possible. This means taking 1-5 minutes throughout the day to work on moves. I would practice in the bathroom mirror at work...when I was in a grocery aisle by myself...while in the car at stoplights. Do the moves you can't do well yet, and your favorite, fun moves too.

3. Watch a lot of bellydancing (and other kinds of dancing). Decide what YOU like, and try to figure out why.

4. Videos are great tools, but they are all different. You might buy several videos before you find one that helps you improve your dancing. Videos are also a good tool if you have a bad kinesthetic memory.
Hint: if you mount a mirror on the wall opposite your TV, you can still see the screen as you turn. I have also used glass-framed pictures as mirrors for that purpose.

5. If you have a REALLY BAD kinesthetic memory, you might not be able to remember movements or combinations long enough to practice them at home. Bring a notepad and pen to class so you can do one or two moves immediately after class, and then write down the details so your words can help you remember the movement. Where are your hands, where are your feet? Is there a count to it? Your teacher might be available to answer questions at this point. Tell her that you have a bad memory, and that you need to write down all the details so you can practice it right at home. Don't expect more than a minute or two of your teacher's time...some days, she may not even be able to do that.
So now you have notes for only one or two moves, and the teacher taught five or six that day? So what? You have to learn at YOUR pace, not the class's pace. Learn those moves really well over the week, and next week you will be ready to learn something else.

Maybe you're used to learning very quickly at school and/or on the job. Dance is DIFFERENT. That's why it's so exciting, and that's also why it's so hard for some people.

The way to learn dance is to focus on YOU learning the dance. What little thing can you do next that might help? Do that thing, then look for the next thing. Don't get distracted by other students that learn faster, or a teacher that happens to be less than perfect (just like the rest of us mortals). Just do the next little thing, and if you come to a roadblock in your planned path, choose another little thing to try. Blaze your own trail!

 

[da Sage]

Seriously, in art form after art form, it's often the less-gifted students that go the furthest. They take it seriously. They work hard. They spend a lot of time working on their art, and they try different things. They question themselves. They seek out good teachers and advisors. They commit themselves completely to their work, and it shows.

I've seen lots of singers, dancers, artists who I thought were mediocre, or even pretty bad, become phenomenal.

The funny thing about these artists and performers is that they are deeply into what they're doing. They are appreciative, yet not obsessed, with what other people are doing. They're interested in creating and enjoying art, not talking smack or railing against how other people create art.

They're my biggest role models.

 

[Habiba]

Seriously, in art form after art form, it's often the less-gifted students that go the furthest. They take it seriously. They work hard. They spend a lot of time working on their art, and they try different things. They question themselves. They seek out good teachers and advisors. They commit themselves completely to their work, and it shows.

I've seen lots of singers, dancers, artists who I thought were mediocre, or even pretty bad, become phenomenal.

The funny thing about these artists and performers is that they are deeply into what they're doing. They are appreciative, yet not obsessed, with what other people are doing. They're interested in creating and enjoying art, not talking smack or railing against how other people create art.

They're my biggest role models.

Beautifully written de Sage and very inspiring. Thank you! :clap: