Definition of shimmy

[chirel]

Ok, I think I have read all the threads about shimmies and I still quite don't know what it means (in belly dancing context). I searched for a finnish translation and it didn't help much.

So please help me with this one:

A shimmy is a rhytmic move done to the rythm of the music (usually by counting) alternating on both sides of the body using hips or shoulders (other body parts?). It can be layered with movements of the same or another bodypart.

I'm trying to find the smallest denominator that connects all shimmies. It just feels that it would be easier to follow the discussions if I could figure this one out

 

[Yame]

A shimmy is any movement that is so quick as to resemble some sort of vibration, or an actual vibration.

 

[Kashmir]

A "shimmy" is a relaxed, constant movement in time to the music (usually double time). Think rippling water.

This is in contrast with a "vibration" (tense), a "freeze" (generated by muscle fatigue/tension), a "reverb"(eration) – a driven movement followed by a loose, gravity generated shake, and a "mess" – just jiggling around. (Terminology does vary between teachers but I find this breakdown most useful)

Any body part can be shimmied. Most common in belly dance are hips, shoulders and chest but the diaphragm (US) and hand (Khaleegi) are common and I’ve even seen eyebrows and nostrils!

 

[Yame]

I personally use the word "shimmy" as a more encompassing term that includes vibrations, freezes/shivers, as well as the bigger, looser, more relaxed types.

 

[Kashmir]

I personally use the word "shimmy" as a more encompassing term that includes vibrations, freezes/shivers, as well as the bigger, looser, more relaxed types.

Problem would then be when you ask for a "shimmy" and get the tight type when you want the loose one. Single word instructions hit home easier with most people - ie they'll miss the adjective. And many people can only "shimmy" tight - then insist they can "shimmy" - by giving the two versions different names there is a clear steer that they are doing two quite different moves (both are needed at different times)

 

[Yame]

Problem would then be when you ask for a "shimmy" and get the tight type when you want the loose one. Single word instructions hit home easier with most people - ie they'll miss the adjective. And many people can only "shimmy" tight - then insist they can "shimmy" - by giving the two versions different names there is a clear steer that they are doing two quite different moves (both are needed at different times)

It's really not that much of a problem. Even without vibrations, there are dozens of ways to shimmy, so a lot of times I have to give more than one word descriptions anyway.

Also when I teach my students I explain to them what MY default shimmy technique is, and what I expect from them. If I want something else, I will specify. I also make corrections so when I want big and loose, I make a point to say no vibrations.

There are plenty of really good dancers who don't do big, loose shimmies, and only do vibrations. I consider them shimmies and I have no problem with people not doing shimmies the way I do them. In my class however, I want people to use my technique as much as possible, so I do make the distinction.

 

[chirel]

Sorry, I managed to start another shimmy discussion

Thank you both for your replys. My problem has actually been that I couldn't tell the difference between these moves. Now with your discussion it's starting to make sense to me (I hope ) I especially like the way Kashmir compares different moves. It gives me boundaries. Now if I only could figure out the corresponding terms in finnish. Preferably within one week, since then I'll be joining a class.

 

[Kashmir]

Now if I only could figure out the corresponding terms in finnish. Preferably within one week, since then I'll be joining a class.

Could be anything! But if you are just starting classes it may not be an issue for quite some time. Before doing a shimmy - a small, fast, repeated movement - you need to get the underlying technique - as a slow, perfect movement.

I teach the beginnings of a shoulder shimmy and and up/down hip shimmy on day one. Many students take several weeks (or even months) to get the underlying shoulder movement right. Although I do introduce trying out a shoulder shimmy quite early, I most students take months to get anything acceptable. And for some reason, although the movement is simpler, the hip shimmy takes a while to be able to sustain smoothly and isolated.

 

[chirel]

Well, this course I'm attending isn't really a true beginners class. It's a short mixed class of beginners and this springs students. I called the teacher to check if it's OK to join the class with my background and she warmly welcomed me. I'd still love to be able to communicate with other people about what I'm doing.

I think my shoulder shimmies are starting to look acceptable most days as I've been practising every day for two months, but I'll let the teacher decide this. Hip shimmies are a bit more difficult as I've had problems with one knee, I've decided to not drill hip movements so much. Fysiotherapist today, so no worries.

 

[chirel]

Just to update... I went to the physiotherapist and she said my knee is fine, I just have weak muscles. I got a bunch of exercises to strenghten my legs and a permission to do anything that doesn't cause pain. So I can finally start to work on hip shimmies and other hip movements properly

And about the naming and defining thing. I guess it'll be easiest if I show my approximation of a movement and ask the teacher what it's called. I suppose she might even know the english terminology.

 

[Safran]

Here is your useless piece of information for the day: the first known use of the word "shimmy" as a noun is from 1837 according to the Merriam Webster Dictionary :lol:

 

[khanjar]

Here is your useless piece of information for the day: the first known use of the word "shimmy" as a noun is from 1837 according to the Merriam Webster Dictionary :lol:

Ha, you think the same as me, to understand something, first understand the description and in this case what does the word 'shimmy' mean', but before we consider that, from what language did it come in terms of belly dance, is it a Western word, or is it a word from the countries where this dance originated, and what did it mean there and then ?

The word shimmy if understood in the original context to describe a movement might in actual fact be very simple, but over time in our need to interpret and evolve , we have perhaps added to the original meaning.

But from one of my favourite reference websites ;

Shimmy;

shimmy (v.)
"do a suggestive dance," 1918, perhaps via phrase shake the shimmy, possibly from shimmy (n.), a U.S. dialectal form of chemise (mistaken as a plural; cf. shammy) first recorded 1837; or related to shimmer via a notion of glistening light. Transf. sense of "vibration of a motor vehicle" is from 1925.

So the earliest recorded appearance according to etymonline.com is 1837, where it was described as a shimmer or glistening light and later in 1925, a vibration, which translates well from the original interpretation in terms of the appearance of vibrating light.

So there it is, a vibration of light and as what we view with our eyes in terms of objects is reflected light, ( yeah, am a photographer), then light that is moving rapidly in one place is vibrating light, so for the image of what a shimmy is in terms of human movement, is the appearance off a vibration and with the body, that is something that a body is doing that vibrates.

As according to mechanical theory there is no minimum frequency,( number of cycles, per given time), of movement to be called a vibration, then it stands in dance which is a mechanical movement, any movement that is considered to be repetitive motion around a point of equilibrium is a vibration, equilibrium in terms of the human body is the natural relaxed state before movement is applied.

So a shimmy if we use the 1837 description, is a vibration of any frequency, that being any repetitive movement the body creates.

Which also tells me the shimmy can be relaxed as I am learning now, and what I have seen to perhaps mal educate prior to is the so called turbo shimmy,( which I believe is more to do with induced muscle spasm) which is not the norm, but by being unusual, it is highlighted and by being highlighted it becomes education for those that do not know better.

Yeah, I think mechanical and science when I dance, it is the stuff I have great difficulty in turning off so I can just be natural and dance, (but I wonder if it is because I am 50/50 left/right brain)

But my new class which focuses on relaxed movement, at last after three years of doing this stuff, I am finally getting to grips with the shimmy, it is not what I thought it was, and it is fab, I can do it.

 

[chirel]

khanjar, I love your explanation Thank you.

 

[Kashmir]

So a shimmy if we use the 1837 description, is a vibration of any frequency, that being any repetitive movement the body creates.

Actually the 1837 meaning was a singlet

The Oxford gives it as "a kind of foxtrot accompanied by oscillation of body" - and the verbal meaning includes "vibrate abnormally"!

That said, it is used by belly dancers, in a specific way. You can no more use the mundane meaning than any other specific jargon. I mean, can you insist that a mechanic uses a "fruit consisting of hard or leathery shell enclosing a kernal" to stop a bolt slipping?

 

[khanjar]

You see I use etymology to understand as I am interested in the origin of words, not what they mean in a modern context, as so often modern context in in actual fact the wrong context and that derived from the misuse of words that come to be accepted as the correct parlance through common usage.

In this instance I sought to understand what the word shimmy meant and so looked to where the term was first coined or at least first recorded as beyond that, there is no other record. So in actual fact the 1837 meaning could even be wrong in itself for when something is recorded, it could have been vast tracts of time between that action and the first usage of the word to describe what exactly.

As to using hard or leather shelled fruit to lock bolts, you might be surprised what food stuffs many mechanics use in mechanical work, a colloid of sugar and water for instance as a fairly secure thread lock is one I use quite often.

 

[Kashmir]

You see I use etymology to understand as I am interested in the origin of words, not what they mean in a modern context, as so often modern context in in actual fact the wrong context and that derived from the misuse of words that come to be accepted as the correct parlance through common usage.

In that case, you are back to a singlet (or chemise) for a shimmy (in fact I once met an elderly woman who still used that meaning). When the word got transfered to the dance move - they "shimmied" in the jazz age wearing shimmies may be hard to track down.

But as far as words go - you do need to pay attention to current or topic specific meanings - otherwise what would we do with nice? boy? girl? and a host of other words which have signifcantly shifted in meaning? You can insist as much as you like that "girl" is a child of either sex - but you will make your communications with anyone in the last two centuries very difficult.

 

[chirel]

You see I use etymology to understand as I am interested in the origin of words, not what they mean in a modern context, as so often modern context in in actual fact the wrong context and that derived from the misuse of words that come to be accepted as the correct parlance through common usage.

Actually in language there is no such thing as "wrong context" nor wrong meaning. Words shift meaning and they change context gradually influenced by many things. Whatever is understandable and acceptable usage for a community (small or large) is the right context and meaning. This of course leads to differing meanings for words in different communities too.

I love etymology too, but I use it to follow the changes and to see connections between things that don't seem connected (like garments and dance moves).

 

[Shanazel]

Shimmy Shimmy Ko-Ko Bop - YouTube

 

[Outi]

Suomeksi puhutaan värinöistä. Voit tietysti väristä eri paikoista ja eri tekniikoilla. Tärkeintä lantiovärinöissä on harjoittelu. Menee todennäköisesti vuosia, ennen kuin saat ne rullaamaan vapaasti, mutta muuta oikotietä ei ole.

Monia näitä asioita on minun tulevassa alkeisdvdssä. Tosin opetus on siinä englannin kielinen. Suomessa on itseasissa maailmanlaajuisesti hyvin korkeatasoista alkeisopetusta. Kaikki festivaalit ja muut viikoloppukurssit tuovat myös tarpellista lisää jatkuviin viikkotunteihin.

Facebookissa on nyt uusi ryhmä Finnish bellydance, jossa ainakin saa kontakteja ja tietoa Suomen tanssipiireissä.

Sorry all of this in Finnsh, it was easier to explane some words etc. in Finnish. Won't happen again!

 

[Shanazel]

Hey, I understand more Finnish than I thought: got Facebookissa right off! It would be cool to speak a language with all those double i's and little dots over the a's. English is so boring when it comes to accent marks.