Article-Is Bellydance For Everyone?

Oh I agree Shanazel, that dance teachers do and must make adjustments to modify a student's ability, unfortunately in those cases I made modifications after the having the student turn red with audible wheezes and watching the student with the stroke almost fall during a 3 step turn. In those cases, it was more than teaching dance and having "fun" but about safety and being aware of one's limitations.
Yasmine
 

Aniseteph

New member
I went to see what else she has to say on her website. OW, MY EYES!!!!!! Never mind the dance opinions, next time someone is explaining something to her on a discussion board she needs telling that solid fuschia backgrounds are crap web design. Ow, where's me shades? :cool: Never mind the BOB, I am the Webmistress from Hell.

Well anyway you get Pilates and something called 5 rites with all her classes. If my teacher had started us off with belly dance and Pilates in the same class I would have been making faces too.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance for everyone etc.

Dear Group,
First of all, I agree with Sedonia's evaluation of Barb the Dancing spirit. I, too am on some other forums with her.
Secondly, why would belly dance be for everyone any more than is ballet, or painting, or any other art form. There are those who will be good at it and those who will not. Why is that difficult to accept? Would we expect everyone to be a Rembrandt or a Baryshnikov?? Why would we expect everyone, then, to be able to belly dance? This attitude has never made any sense to me.

I do believe, however, that everyone has the right to take classes, be in recitals, etc. I am taking classes in pottery right now. Will I ever be a real potter?? Probably not, but I can have fun and be honest with myself as a person who is strictly an amateur and NOT feel that I have the right to call myself a potter just because I have have thrown a few pieces of clay on a wheel. There is nothing wrong with being an amateur as long as we are honest about it. I have seen some "dancers" who call themselves "professional", whose dancing is even thicker than my pottery pieces!!
Most of the people who come to take classes will never be great belly dancers. They are there for their own reasons. We as teachers have to accept that, but still teach for the sake of the dance, as well as the dancer. Belly dance is not a kindergarten class where its only about making it "Fun". It is also an art form with specific elements and spirit, according to its cultural origins. We should make every attempt get students to accept their level of aptitude for what they are doing.
We also can help them exlpore other avenues of the dance. Often a lousy belly dancer is a great costumer or a beautiful announcer, or can drum like mad, has incredible marketing skills,or whatever. This does not mean they can't continue to study the dance, just as I am keeping it up with pottery. It only means they will never have the skills to be professional, and that they can enjoy the dance at their own level as long as they are honest with themsleves and others about that.
In other words, no, belly dance at the professional level, is not for everyone. I know I will not be any more popular for having said it, but it is the truth if we are to put the integrity of dance before our own egos. I think this is something that the dance is now desperately in need of.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Moon

New member
I agree. Not everyone can become really good in bellydance and that's ok, cause there isn't a single thing on earth of which everyone can become really good in it. But everyone is free to try and teachers should at least do their verybest to try and teach something, also when they feel someone will never be a professional.
What annoys me most about the article is the arrogant way in which she speaks about "dancers" and "non-dancers". People who never danced in their lives before (like me) can become just as good as people who did ballet for 10 years before bellydance or something like that. How can you ever become a dancer if you never try out dancing? You have to start somewhere, but this woman obviously doesn't want people to start with bellydance.
 

sedoniaraqs

New member
I agree with A'isha's thoughts totally on professional dancer -- not everyone is going to be one.

One thing I would add is that oriental dance is natural and ergonomic movement, and thus more approachable to the adult beginner than some other forms of dance,namely ballet.

An untrained 30 or 40 (or even 20) yr old adult beginner is going to be physically damaged by even the fundamental bar exercises and positions of ballet -- so say the experts in sports medicine. (See Dr. Stark's thoughts on the matter in his book "The stark reality of stretching". He says that stretches like the splits or ballet bar stretches, unless one has done them from a preadolescent age, produce a slow insidious damage to the ligaments of the hips and legs.)

So, a beginning belly dance class is much more "for everyone" than a beginning ballet class, because at least the belly dance students, regardless of talent or aptitude, can learn a few basic moves that would allow them to dance in a social setting (at an Arabic wedding or disco, for example); whereas IMO the beginning ballet student, lacking not only talent but also the required extreme strength and flexibility, is probably not going to have much fun.

Sedonia
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

Dear Moon,
I have read posts from Barb on other forums where she expressed that she is unhappy because she can't find the "beginning" of the dance, though countless people have tried to explain to her about fundmental movement, etc. If she does not understand the beginning of the dance, how can she teach it??
I think she wants to teach the "ideal" student, though I am not sure she is the "ideal" teacher. What I noticed most about the article was that it was not centered on or about the dance at all. This most important aspect of the teaching agenda was left out in favor of worrying about if the students were good enough dancers to be trying to learn to dance.
Especially at the beginning level, we have people in classes who are there for many different reasons. Some are there because their friend wanted to take belly dance, some are there because they have a deep attraction to the dance itself and the culture from which it arises, some are there because they are all ego and think they can get more attention in the spotlight, (and they don't have time for all those acting lessons!), some are there because it looks more fun than going to the gym. Some start out with a superficial idea about the dance and go on to fall in love with it. Others like the glitzy costumes. Others think Shakira ( the singer, not my buddy in Ohio), is a great belly dancer and they want to be like her. There are as many reasons for taking the class as there are students. For some reason, this did not occur to Barb when she started teaching and she thought that everyone there would be dancers because she teaches in a dance studio.
Poor Barb has not yet hit on the realities of the dance. Many people who take beginning classes are not interested in the dance itself. There are a few, but not many. Most people do not go on to become dancers from beginning belly dance class. Those students that you have two years after their beginning class MIGHT go on to become dancers. I think this is true even in other dance forms.
And I agree, her attitude is arrogant. Everyone has the right to take classes and the right to their own reasons, whether or not they are the same reasons as mine. As a teacher, my job is to teach the dance, not to stand in judgement of other people's motivations or aptitudes. Again I want to stress that the moment they decide to bill themselves as "professional" I do then have the right to judge!
Regards,
A'isha
 

Aniseteph

New member
Especially at the beginning level, we have people in classes who are there for many different reasons....

:clap::clap::clap:

And how many of them stay for the same reason they went to those first lessons for? We learn, we develop, our motivations change. All the more reason to keep those doors open.

I got the impression she'd be happier if the "non-dancers" (whoever they may be) would just be vaporised by the Goddess of Dance the minute their unworthy feet touched the studio floor. :lol:

:think: maybe that's what those rites were about... ;)
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Oh I agree Shanazel, that dance teachers do and must make adjustments to modify a student's ability, unfortunately in those cases I made modifications after the having the student turn red with audible wheezes and watching the student with the stroke almost fall during a 3 step turn. In those cases, it was more than teaching dance and having "fun" but about safety and being aware of one's limitations.
Yasmine

Poor Yasmine! It would be helpful to know these things before the wheezing and falling begins, wouldn't it? Safety and awareness of limitations are important for all students, not just the ones with actual physical impairments. Ever had an indifferent student who wanted to practice a dramatic back drop to the floor while wearing a pair of four inch platform heels? Eeeeeeek! I suggested another teacher for that one- she was too bent on self destruction for me.

One of my pet peeves must to be footwear. In almost every class, I have one student who wants to wear her fuzzy sockies on the hardwood dance floor, and insists she will not slip at some point. No fuzzy sockies in my class, even if they have bells sewn to the ankles. Maybe especially if they have bells sewn to the ankles.

I absolutely agree with A'isha that belly dance at the professional level, is not for everyone. "Belly dance is for everyone" is just a catchy slogan used as advertising and I don't believe it any more than I believe using a particular dishwashing liquid will make people mistake my hands for those of my thirteen year old daughter. However, I am perfectly willing for everyone to try belly dance at least once, just so they have a little more appreciation for what is involved.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Students, etc.

Dear Yasmine,
Hopefully, your studio has people sign a legal waiver?? I also have students get a doctor's permission if I have ANY doubts about their health in correlation to the dance.
Regards,
A'isha
 
Dear Yasmine,
Hopefully, your studio has people sign a legal waiver?? I also have students get a doctor's permission if I have ANY doubts about their health in correlation to the dance.
Regards,
A'isha
Oh Yes students are required to sign a waiver in addtion to listing any potential health problems. But many students don't think it's necessary to list them. Why? Who knows for sure, my guess is that students believe that bellydance is 'fun' and easy and it will 'whittle their waistline without really exercising'. But so much for the message of advertising.
Yasmine
 

Yshka

New member
I started dancing because a local dance teacher I knew asked me to. I already had seen several dancers and actually thought it looked cool but I'd never be able to do that. I had no further understanding of MED whatsoever. Along the dancing road somewhere I started to get addicted to both the dance, the music and be obsessively interested in the cultural context that comes with the dance. Others just liked to dance like shakira or came into class because they wanted to have fun and excercise once a week. My experience in class is that everyone is taught the same things, and are free to learn or not. Slower students are encouraged to go ahead and learn at their own pace, made to feel confident and proud of their own level of achievement, whatever that might be, without any pressure they have to be professionals or a feeling they are not 'dancer material'. Everyone seems happy this way. Cultural information usually is perceived as a fun thing, some students might be genuinely interested and will absorb everything they get, others still think it's fun to know some dance history and info about their hobby they take classes in once a week. The atmosphere in class is friendly, and people feel they are learning together to become as good as they can. If people have fun and feel that they too can learn, that's fantastic.

I wonder how Barbara's students feel in class. Does she act superior as well there? And how would they feel if they read that article... Would anyone return to a teacher that has such disrespect of the "non-dancers":confused: ?

My teacher's danceschool states (shortly summarized) bellydance "CAN BE PRACTISED/DONE by everyone/people of all shapes and sized", which I think is quite true, without directly saying it IS for everyone, but still is free for everyone to try.

Personally I agree bellydancing at a professional level is not for everyone. Everyone is allowed to try though, and as long as they like it, they should be taught in the best way possible. IMO a teacher should teach because of her love for the dance and out of wanting to share her knowledge with others, but not out of this ideal of only having dancers-to-be in her class that will all become pro's and will boost her ego some more. If that is the point, why teach?

Students, I agree, take classes for all different reasons, but as they've all chosen bellydance as the thing they want to learn, for whatever reason it may be, they should be taught bellydance and all that belongs with it (cultural context, feeling and spirit, isolations and drills, all of it) no exceptions made. If someone is slower in catching up, or should for some reason feel bellydance is not for them, they are free to and those slower than others must still be welcome in class going at their own pace, those feeling bellydance is not for them will quit anyway. If they don't want to become pro's or even perform at student hafla's, they should still have the right to choose not to.

Shanazel said:
"Belly dance is for everyone" is just a catchy slogan used as advertising and I don't believe it any more than I believe using a particular dishwashing liquid will make people mistake my hands for those of my thirteen year old daughter.
A'isha said:
Secondly, why would belly dance be for everyone any more than is ballet, or painting, or any other art form. There are those who will be good at it and those who will not. Why is that difficult to accept? Would we expect everyone to be a Rembrandt or a Baryshnikov?? Why would we expect everyone, then, to be able to belly dance? This attitude has never made any sense to me.
True. IMO "bellydance as a dance taught in class CAN BE for everyone", (if one's physical abilities/other factors in one's life permit it ofcourse, like Yasmine's example, there are exceptions), and it simply can because it doesn't come with obligations to do something you don't want to do and learn what is right for YOU at YOUR pace and level.
If Barbara feels she doesn't like teaching people that only come for fun, excercise and have no aspirations to someday become professional bellydancers, then why doesn't she put on her painfully-pink website she will only teach people that are to become professionals? Who is she kidding?.

Moon said:
If you sign up for, let's say, soccer classes, you can also expect to learn the rules
of the game besides running around and kicking the ball.
I think students who come more "for fun" won't mind hearing some indepth information.
If they are not really interested, they'll forget it. Or maybe they will become interested!

Teacher's I think (mostly) teach out of love for the dance, and they should therefor pass on their knowledge in a way that is right for them and any student, for everyone to learn, and yes, some might get addicted as well and gain a deeper understanding of the dance, some might even want to become dancers someday, but if not, both should be treated with the same care and respect, should be taught the same things. It's wonderful if they are interested. If not, they'll deal with the info their own way, or might become interested over time. Nevertheless being free to try it on is the key.

I hope this still makes sense, I'm too tired to read it all over. This thread has given me a lot to think about. I love this forum!!:D
 
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Suheir

New member
Anybody can try it, of course, but it's apparent that some people have no sense of rhythm whatsoever, can't tell the difference between rhythm and melody or can't even distinguish between different instruments - these are fundamental failings that mean they'll never be able to dance properly!

They have all the necessary body parts but without the ability to connect ears, brain and body you have no chance.
 

Moon

New member
Actually Suheir I think learning how to dance and how to listen to the music might help "rhythm deaf" student too. I've a quite good sense of rhythm myself and I admit sometimes I find it very hard to understand why some people just don't hear it. But I've had music lessons for 10 years or so. I think students with little or no sense of rhythm can still try to learn and I think even their little sense or rhythm can improve. Though they probably will never become professional dancers, calling them "fundamental failings" sounds way too harsh IMO.
 

Suheir

New member
Actually Suheir I think learning how to dance and how to listen to the music might help "rhythm deaf" student too. I've a quite good sense of rhythm myself and I admit sometimes I find it very hard to understand why some people just don't hear it. But I've had music lessons for 10 years or so. I think students with little or no sense of rhythm can still try to learn and I think even their little sense or rhythm can improve. Though they probably will never become professional dancers, calling them "fundamental failings" sounds way too harsh IMO.
I say that because I've been in classes with people who've been dancing for 5/6 years and *still* can't hear rhythms, it's astonishing!
 

Moon

New member
I can understand how you feel. I have some fellow students who really don't hear it and told me a few months ago they were going pro, now how's that? The last time we had to clap our hands together with the 9/8 rhythm the teacher was very satisfied when they did it right only one time, otherwise we would probably still be standing there. However at least they had it one time! See, maybe they will improve, though be it slowly.
 
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