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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
    It's partly a joke but not entirely. Holding the legs together while shimmying produces a -- ahh -- internal excitory effect. Personally I prefer not to mastabate in front of an audience. And no, it's not just me. A well known teacher once taught the "welcome home shimmy" in a workshop. The idea was that the subtext would be subconciously picked up by the audience - ie they would know there was something about the dancer but not be quite sure what was going on.
    This is one of the most insulting bellydance nonsense things I've ever heard. I have been shimmying with my legs together for years and no such thing occurs. Honestly, is that what you think dancers are doing when they shimmy closed-legged on stage? Is that what you believe the audience is thinking? Am I missing a joke here?

  2. #12
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    This is one of the most insulting bellydance nonsense things I've ever heard. I have been shimmying with my legs together for years and no such thing occurs. Honestly, is that what you think dancers are doing when they shimmy closed-legged on stage? Is that what you believe the audience is thinking? Am I missing a joke here?
    Actually it is quite easy to do. As a joke (after the workshop I mentioned) three of us tried it - and it can certainly be done. Maybe you are doing it wrong

    The trick is to use abs - not your legs to drive the shimmy. (My natural shimmy is ab driven but I normally stand hip width apart - which doesn't work) And it does change something quite subtle in the face and eyes. Ranya Renee had a less extreme version where she suggests you keep your pelvic floor engaged. She had us deciding when she did and when she didn't just by looking at her face and most of us got it every time.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
    Actually it is quite easy to do. As a joke (after the workshop I mentioned) three of us tried it - and it can certainly be done. Maybe you are doing it wrong

    The trick is to use abs - not your legs to drive the shimmy. (My natural shimmy is ab driven but I normally stand hip width apart - which doesn't work) And it does change something quite subtle in the face and eyes. Ranya Renee had a less extreme version where she suggests you keep your pelvic floor engaged. She had us deciding when she did and when she didn't just by looking at her face and most of us got it every time.
    So then the answers to the questions would be:

    1. Yes, you do think that when a dancer does close-legged shimmies on stage it is an attempt to "mastabate (sic) in front of an audience",

    2. Yes, the audience is thinking the same thing and,

    3. No, you are not joking and really believe this.

    Is this correct?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Erik's Avatar
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    Okay, so shame on me. I've been following this since Kashmir posted; not because it was a turn-on, but because I knew it was certain to be controversial. For whatever it's worth I believe her. Kashmir and I may disagree greatly on other issues, but when it comes to bellydance she knows her job down to the very last detail. That's all.

  5. #15
    Moderator Darshiva's Avatar
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    I, too, have been reading Kashmir's posts with the same interest. I also pulled out a nice close-legged shimmy after reading what Kashmir said and it didn't do anything. But I do thigh-motivated shimmies as a matter of course, so it didn't occur to me that she would be talking about ab-driven ones. And considering how one does kegel (pelvic floor) exercises...

    There is no black & white in this situation. Kashmir did explain the situation under which the answer was a yes quite clearly. Obviously the implication from all of Kashmir's posts on the matter is that it happens under certain specific circumstances and that there is an obvious 'tell' in the face when it does.
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  6. #16
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    So then the answers to the questions would be:

    1. Yes, you do think that when a dancer does close-legged shimmies on stage it is an attempt to "mastabate (sic) in front of an audience",

    2. Yes, the audience is thinking the same thing and,

    3. No, you are not joking and really believe this.

    Is this correct?
    1: The effect of a close-legged shimmy may be that - but not necessarily the purpose. And yes, I do know dancers who have done that deliberately - in front of an audience. (I haven't)
    2: The audience is unlikely to know what they are doing - but there are subtle signs that can be picked up. People are unlikely to know what they are picking up - but they will pick up something. The dancer seems almost more alive.
    3: Am I joking? About the effect? - no. About whether all dancers do it deliberately? - yes. I was just peeved by the prissy idea that by keeping your legs together you are somehow pure - wide legs are slutty. Where as this does not need to be the case.

  7. #17
    Member LilithNoor's Avatar
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    So my morning has basically gone as follows;

    *read thread*
    *retrieve eyebrows from ceiling*
    *wonder whether Kashmir is having a laugh*
    *wonder whether it really works*
    *remember I'm well overdue some shimmy drilling*
    *discover that this is both bloody difficult and a good way to access obliques when shimmying*
    *get similar results to Darshiva*
    *resolve to share this knowledge with fellow dancers in case they have more luck*
    *make mental note to watch out for this move at Gothla next year*

  8. #18
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    Huh? I never shimmy with my legs together. It's indecent!
    There is nothing indecent about shimmying with one's legs together. Generations of women have been doing it for decades. Tahia Carioca shimmied with her legs together and was considered to be a very elegant and ladylike dancer.

    It's partly a joke but not entirely. Holding the legs together while shimmying produces a -- ahh -- internal excitory effect. Personally I prefer not to mastabate in front of an audience. And no, it's not just me. A well known teacher once taught the "welcome home shimmy" in a workshop. The idea was that the subtext would be subconciously picked up by the audience - ie they would know there was something about the dancer but not be quite sure what was going on.
    So now the audience is subconsciously picking up that I [/QUOTE] mastabate in front of an audience.[/QUOTE] I guess I like the old days better when audiences would subconciously pick up that we were strippers and prostitutes - it was less humiliating.

    Actually it is quite easy to do. As a joke (after the workshop I mentioned) three of us tried it - and it can certainly be done. Maybe you are doing it wrong.
    Congratulations on your achievement. Though it sounds as though your experience was due more to collective suggestablility rather than physiological response. All three of you - that's quite a success rate.

    I was just peeved by the prissy idea that by keeping your legs together you are somehow pure - wide legs are slutty. Where as this does not need to be the case.
    Perhaps I missed the "slutty" remark in an earlier comment, but I don't think so. Nor did I see anything about anyone stating that shimmying with closed legs is "pure". At any rate, your comments are ill-informed and offensive. They have as much legitemacy as the insistance that Oriental Dance evolved from Ancient Birth Rituals and deserve much respect as the idea of Sacred Prostitutes.

  9. #19
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
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    Seconding Ranya Renee's "can you tell?" effect - I've seen her do the same demo. But it's just a subtle focused change round the eyes, not OMG pass the smelling salts she is totally doing inappropriate downstairs stuff right in front of us.

    I think an audience would have to be pretty pervy or very invested in the belly dance = advanced bedroom skills theory to interpret it that way. IMO there's more damaging-the-image sleaze from people putting on porno faces or doing inappropriate floorwork than from legit dancers getting genuinely, er, carried away.

  10. #20
    Member Ahava_Melantha's Avatar
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    maybe I still just don't get it.

    but of course most of my shimmies are either feet driven (choo choos) or knee driven shimmies. so what exactly is an ab driven shimmy? I can understand if you guys are talking aboukt super legs close together egyptian shimmy, but i think the look is mostly from making sure your thighs don't go raw from rubbing too fast (not sexually) at all.

    I don't know. I have seen many "alive" looking shimmies but it was mostly emotional - from getting into teh music!

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