Egyptian / Middle Eastern hand gestures

[Greek Bonfire]

So far as I know, glimpses of palms and soles never have been a problem. Here's an article I wrote about it for my web site:

Dear Shira: Is It Insulting to Expose My Palm to the Audience?

Yeah, I wonder how that belief came about otherwise.

I think it's safe to say that in just about any culture, the middle finger is a no-no, and a thumbs up, well that's pretty much open to interpretation too, something to be careful with. :lol:

 

[MizzNaaa]

I can help a little bit with that (being and Egyptian who's danced since she was five)

The restrictions about the soles of your feet and palms are ancient, nobody is bothered by them now. Most of the time, people won't even notice and they will - hopefully- be enthralled with the dancer and her dance moves itself.

As for specific gestures in belly dance, I know of only one and it's more associated with Sha'bi than belly dance, although Fifi Abdu used to do it. It's putting the fingers of one hand spread on the palm of the other, so the first knuckle of your middle finger rubs against the inner bottom knuckle of your other middle finger and clicks against your ring finger. It's weird, and very difficult and makes similar sound to the clicking of the middle finger and the thumb together.

There are other hand gestures that are strictly sha'bi and are never used with belly dancers, like the pocket knife gesture (as they call it) and it's also a guy thing. So yeah.

Other than that, Egyptian dancers, modern or otherwise, rarely used any special hand gestures. The focus was always on their hips and feet movement. Just watch videos of early 90's Egyptian dancers and you'll know what I mean.

I hope that helped.

 

[Yame]

I think the whole thing with palms of hands and soles of feet came about with some non-Middle Eastern dancer finding out that these gestures are taboo in some Middle Eastern cultures, then just naively assuming it applies to all Middle Easterners and that it applies to belly dance.

There are a lot of so-called "rules" that probably came about this way. I always hear about all these taboos and things not to do, always coming from Western dancers, only to see almost every Egyptian dancer do those very things.

 

[Amulya]

As for specific gestures in belly dance, I know of only one and it's more associated with Sha'bi than belly dance, although Fifi Abdu used to do it. It's putting the fingers of one hand spread on the palm of the other, so the first knuckle of your middle finger rubs against the inner bottom knuckle of your other middle finger and clicks against your ring finger. It's weird, and very difficult and makes similar sound to the clicking of the middle finger and the thumb together.

.

Same thing is used in Persian dance. It's extremely hard to do!

 

[MizzNaaa]

Same thing is used in Persian dance. It's extremely hard to do!

It is! My sister knows how to do it, and she keeps rubbing it in my face. Drives me nuts :lol:

 

[Sophia Maria]

This is the kind of thing I was talking about in the original post. I see certain gestures happen over and over again that I can't recognize. There are some things that are universal, like pointing, indicating your heart/gut, tears...But why does she keep brushing her forearms in this piece? What about that sharp point down to the floor that she does at 1:43? I suppose I could just look up Fadl Shaker's lyrics and figure it out for myself (that's the thing, if you've got the language, you can pretty much understand).

 

[Greek Bonfire]

It is! My sister knows how to do it, and she keeps rubbing it in my face. Drives me nuts :lol:

It's a cool move, although I don't see it very often, which maybe is good, as I can see where too much of it would drive anybody nuts! :shok:

 

[MizzNaaa]

This is the kind of thing I was talking about in the original post. I see certain gestures happen over and over again that I can't recognize. There are some things that are universal, like pointing, indicating your heart/gut, tears...But why does she keep brushing her forearms in this piece? What about that sharp point down to the floor that she does at 1:43? I suppose I could just look up Fadl Shaker's lyrics and figure it out for myself (that's the thing, if you've got the language, you can pretty much understand).

Actually none of the gestures Ms. Raqia is doing have anything to do with 'belly dance' as much as they are gestures that correspond with the words, same like the heart/gut indication, or tears. Most of those are ways to express what the song says.

I can help you a bit with understanding the lyrics (hopefully) I think the biggest problem with translating our lyrics to English lies with the expressions that are so tied with the culture and are difficult to translate.

The song goes something like this:
Do what you see as best, my beloved

Continue saying what you came to say

Either way, our stories won't take long (that usually means our story together as in our relationship)

They why should we postpone our parting?

(He repeats that again from 1:10 to 1:28) At those points her gestures are basically all geared towards expressing talking, wagging her index fingers when he says our stories won't take long, and shrugging (sorta) when he says why should we postpone.

starting 1: 30 the song goes like this:

So what if I'll be lost after you're gone for a few days?

So what if I'll shed a few tears

Hurt me now, not later (That's when she does the sharp pointing down at the floor, indicating the 'now' and then waves her hand around in a big NO at not later)

The wound is usually easier at the beginning

he then repeats that verse again

at 2:04 - 2:05 when she runs her fingers over her arms she was indicating the 'wound' part

If we live and we had a long age, I'll remind you (That's an arabic saying meaning if we live long enough to do such and such I'll do it, in this case he talks about reminding his lover which is why she holds her temples and shakes her head a little at 2:58)

I wanted you but you made me lose you

And I'm not going to say why did you leave and what changed you

And if parting was hard, by tomorrow I'll think of it as easy

then he repeats that verse again till 3:39

Then he repeats the So what if I'll be lost after you're gone for a few days? verse two times

Hope that helped!

 

[Kashmir]

Actually none of the gestures Ms. Raqia is doing have anything to do with 'belly dance' as much as they are gestures that correspond with the words, same like the heart/gut indication, or tears. Most of those are ways to express what the song says.

Actually, I think that's what people mean about gestures - not specific belly dance gestures - but rather gestures that express something about the song.

Thank you for your breakdown of the song.

 

[Sophia Maria]

Yup, Kashmir, that's exactly what I meant.

And thanks for the translation, MizzNaaa, that helps me understand a lot better. Once I get the words and the meaning, I can see why she would make those gestures. I would make different ones, because obviously my personality and the way I express myself through my hands is different than other dancers. But it helps me to understand Egyptian body language associated with speech.

Speaking of which, I have really got to get into an Arabic course next year. New goal. My knowledge so far is limited to hello/goodbye/good morning/my name is, any words I've learned from lyrics, and my friend teaching me the alphabet.

 

[MizzNaaa]

Oh well, yeah, I think I got a wrong impression off what people said. Glad I could be of help though

 

[Safran]

I'm reviving the thread with a little instructional video

 

[Ariadne]

Actually, I think that's what people mean about gestures - not specific belly dance gestures - but rather gestures that express something about the song.

Thank you for your breakdown of the song.

Oh well, yeah, I think I got a wrong impression off what people said. Glad I could be of help though

Nah, you didn't really get the wrong impression. For Egyptian dancers those expressive gestures ARE what helps them dance with an Egyptian accent. For dancers in other styles it's more about "specific bellydance gestures". The result is the same though - they change the styling of the dance. I'm starting to think that a lot of the styling of arms for Turkish dancing comes from them using their zills so frequently, you just hold your arms differently when you have zills. I learned the hard way not to get them to close to my head. Dang those things are loud!

 

[Amulya]

I'm reviving the thread with a little instructional video

A lot of these are similar to the ones used in Europe but they use them less dramatically. I also recognise some that are the same in India.